Flight delays on fly cruises

[JMyrtle]

We are experienced cruisers but have always left from U.K ports.

I have been told by Saga that if we book a "cruising companions" fly cruise with them but have an annual holiday insurance policy with another insurer  should our Saga organised flight be delayed and we miss the ship it is neither the responsibility of Saga or the cruise line to arrange for us to either meet the ship at another port or get us back to the U.K, we would need to deal with our own insurance companyon our return home to obtain a refund..

Surely this cannot be the case as I thought there would be a Saga rep to meet us off the flight and  the whole point of a package holiday was to prevent this sort of thing and if this is the case why would anyone take such a risk.

Has anyone else come across this when booking through what amounts to a travel agent?

Edited April 8, 2019 by JMyrtle

[yorkshirephil]

I don't know what the significance of "cruising companions" is but it seems to me that it is a ploy to get you to buy over priced insurance. A package deal should be the responsibility of the company you book with? I would check the small print on the web site or cruise with someone else.

 

[John Bull]

Certainly if an event is covered by two insurance policies (eg if a tree falling onto your car is covered by both household and car policies) there will be provisos in both policies for one insurer to bear the cost or for the cost to be shared between them. 

 

So I have a suspicion that Saga may be correct in law, but a phone call to your insurer will surely bring more-qualified advice than we can give.

 

If the worst happens, best to contact your insurer on-the-spot to confirm whether the policy covers that event. If it doesn't you have the right to expect Saga to deal with it on-the-spot in accordance with their "cruising companions" terms.

 

But if Saga are correct, and if your policy covers you, it would create a logistical problem on-the-day - you're on your own to make (and pay for) arrangements to catch up with the ship, though your insurer might be able to advise on the best solution .

However, I don't see any long-term losses. You claim on your insurance when you get home. If your insurer demonstrates that the event isn't covered by your policy, then Saga is liable - and liable I believe for the full amount that you paid for transport, hotel, food, phone calls, etc, even if there were some more-economical alternative that you couldn't reasonably be expected to know about. Plus recompense for your trouble and for the missing part of your cruise - even the whole cost of the cruise if catch-up weren't possible. 

 

If Saga are liable to recompense you after the event, that liability is to recompense in cash - though they' probably try to fob you oft with a future cruise credit.

 

But this is all very negative - I feel sure the cruise will go off without a hitch & that you'll have a great time.

 

JB   

[hallux]

You would need to read the contract with Saga to find that out.  Unless the flights were booked through the cruise line they bear no responsibility to get you to the next port.  Next in line is Saga, who booked you on a "tight" schedule flying you in the day of the cruise (did they offer an option to do it the day before?), if the flight they booked you on is delayed then their contract would apply.  If their contract does not cover this, your insurance would.

[FlyerTalker]

And remember that "insurance" is not there for the purpose of getting you to your cruise, but to protect you against financial losses.

 

Too many people think it's the former and end up bitterly disappointed.

 

Read the fine print.  Then re-read it again.  That's what governs in law, not the verbal assurances of any cruiseline representative.

[davecttr]

In the UK if you buy a package holiday including flights and transfers etc it is the responsibility of the company to get you to the ship and home again at the end of your cruise.

 

Looks like Saga might be trying to get around the package holiday regulations so they can sell their overpriced insurance

[JMyrtle]

Cruising companions are other cruise lines whose cruises are sold by Saga, a bit like a travel agent without it seems, shouldering the responsibility to get you to the ship.

The cruise I was looking at had  flights going from Gatwick in the cruise line  brochure but Sagas flights in their brochure went from Heathrow which got me thinking that Saga are only booking the cruise with the cruise company and providing the transport to the airport, flights and transfers themselves so it could be possible you were the only Saga cruise passenger on the flight. 

Presumably if the cruise line books the flights for you the ship waits if there is a delay even if you are joining mid cruise as would be the case here. 

I quite understand how holiday insurance works in that you claim when you get home but as a pensioner I would not wish to expose myself to the stress of being stuck in a foreign country with a ship that has sailed and the prospect of trying to get myself home because neither the cruise line or Saga consider it to be their responsibility to do so. 

Money is not the issue its the stress factor if something goes wrong, hotels don't usually sail away without you if you have a three hour flight delay but apparently in this case once check in closes and you are delayed  the ship sales anyway and you are on your own. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by JMyrtle

[davecttr]

Ah! so Saga are not selling a package, they are not using their own ships. I wonder if those cruises are available elsewhere as a package? Probably not if the cruise lines concerned are not subject to UK package holiday regulations

[John Bull]

12 minutes ago, JMyrtle said:

 

Presumably if the cruise line books the flights for you the ship waits if there is a delay even if you are joining mid cruise as would be the case here. 

 

I'm afraid you've lost me - I was under the impression that you are sailing on a Saga ship. And that "Cruising Companions" was a name for Saga's add-ons, such as flights, meaning that this was the cruise line's own fly-cruise, hence my references to the cruise line's responsibilities and the two different ways of being recompensed - cruise line or insurers. 

Since this doesn't seem to be the case, if you miss your sailing you'd have to make your own arrangements and seek reimbursement from the insurer. I can understand your reluctance to do that.

 

If it were a fly-cruise package provided by the cruise line, getting you to the ship on-time is the cruise line's responsibility.

There are times when a ship can't wait (availability of the berth, tides, availability of pilots etc).but the important thing - at least under English law (assuming you booked in the UK) - is that they'd be responsible for getting you to the ship, including flying you to the first port-of-call And they'd be responsible for all the arrangements and all the costs, plus reasonable recompense. 

 

But if you book flights and cruise separately, even using the same travel agent and booking both things at the same time, they're two separate contracts. If the flight is screwed-up it's your problem, it's not the cruise line's problem any more than if you overslept and missed the flight. Most folk who book cruise and flights separately fly out a day early - this gives them a day to explore the embarkation city and is a buffer against a flight delay.

 

I'm not sure that you've been well-advised - the big dis-advantage of booking the cruise line's air partner as a single-contract fly-cruise package is that it's usually the most expensive way to do it. And the big advantage (there are other advantages too) is the very matter that you are concerned about. So it sounds like you might have the worst of both worlds.

 

Have you booked yet?

If not, I suggest you seek the simple cruise line's fly-cruise package. (sounds like the one with flights out of Gatwick), mebbe direct with Saga.

That's sometimes over-priced, so an alternative would be to book your flight out a day earlier as a safety net, via a website or travel agency which specialises in flights..

 

Hope this makes sense

 

JB 

 

[Zach1213]

15 hours ago, JMyrtle said:

Presumably if the cruise line books the flights for you the ship waits if there is a delay even if you are joining mid cruise as would be the case here. 

 

 

Don't presume anything. Cruise line air makes no such promise, though they're very good at making vague suggestions that they will. But rest assured, push comes to shove, if the ship needs to leave it's going to leave, with or without you. The cruise line may then do their absolute best to get you to the next port via air, but they're at the mercy of schedules and bookings on pre-existing flights. If you check the fine print, there's absolutely no promises or guarantees that they will stick around for you...if they do, consider it luck being on your side.

[JMyrtle]

Our problem is that neither of us drive so we would need to book a taxi to the airport ourselves as the cruise line in question does not provide that service. 

By booking exactly the same cruise thru Saga you get included chauffeur service to the airport as part of the deal which means you are covered if there is a traffic delay and you miss your flight. 

It costs slightly more to book this way with Saga but its actually cheaper once you factor in the cost of the taxi to the airport. 

Alarm bells started ringing with me when I saw the flights supplied by Saga went from Heathrow and those supplied by the cruise line went from Gatwick. 

When I asked Saga what would happen if their flight was delayed and we missed the ship they said it was up to us to make arrangements to either join the ship at another port or return home and then get a refund from our own insurance company if we were not insured thru them. 

As our holiday insurance is an add on to our household policy any claim would result in a premium increase next year and I also thought, as others have said, that if you book a package holiday it is the responsibility of the holiday company to get you to your destination not your insurance company. 

[John Bull]

 

I know that Saga provide all sorts of services for folk of a certain age, but when anyone mentions Saga on Cruise Critic we tend to presume it's the Saga cruise line, hence confusion.

 

So Saga is your travel agent but you're not cruising on a Saga ship, right?

 

And they've told you that if traffic (or presumably a mechanical issue or whatever with the taxi?) means that if you miss the flight Saga will accept responsibility and costs of getting you to the ship?

 

But if the flight is delayed and you miss the ship it's your problem?

 

Since you live in Kent, you can't be a million miles from Gatwick, or even Heathrow. 

And if you were concerned about traffic etc, you could book the taxi for an hour earlier - or two, or three - with the only downsides being you'd probably be sat around at the airport for that much longer, and perhaps a very early-morning start.

But if your flight is delayed you have no control over that.

I don't know the time-frame between scheduled arrival time at your destination airport and last-boarding time for the ship, but I'd rate being Saga's responsibility as far as the airport as far less comforting than being the cruise line's responsibility from Gatwick onwards.

 

If you've already booked I guess you'll have to accept the risk of a flight delay, and if it doesn't work out you'll have to play catch-up yourselves and seek recompense from your travel insurer. 

But you could ask Saga to switch your booking to the cruise line's air/cruise package. They could still provide a car to the airport, or you could book a taxi yourselves.

But you're probably worrying over an unlikely problem, hopefully Saga have built-in some wiggle-room in the timings.

If you post back with your flight times, destination airport, the cruise port and latest-boarding time, plus anything else that you think might be useful we can all mull it over.

Post here, or start a fresh thread on 

 https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/forum/77-cruise-air/

That's a forum about cruise flights, where there are members who are experts on the subject and can give better advice than me.

 

If you've not already booked, you might want to consider booking the air/cruise package direct with the cruise-line.

And fix a taxi with a taxi company well- experienced in airport transfers.

Quote your flight number and time and ask them to advise on a pick-up time.

Then book it for an hour earlier than they suggest - or two, or three, depending on your worry-level.

 

But, to repeat, you're worrying about something that's not likely to happen 

 

JB 

[JMyrtle]

Thanks for all the advice, we have decided not to book with Saga but to wait for a fare reduction offer from the cruise line and then book it thru a local travel agent we have used before who supply  their own transfers to the airport, that way we will have the best support we can possibly get. 

Unfortunately we live in the most extreme corner of East Kent so it's sixty miles to Gatwick and eighty to Heathrow  which means a return taxi fare of between £175.00 and £250.00 depending on which airport you fly from, which is why Saga with its included transfers is such an attractive option. 

Edited April 11, 2019 by JMyrtle

[John Bull]

Yes, definitely time for a re-think.

 

The only advantage that I see of booking through Saga is the included taxi, so you just need to take that cost into account when comparing prices.

 

It's my understanding that, whether you book direct with a cruise line or thro a UK T/A, if you book the cruise line's air-cruise package (not simply booking both air & cruise thro the same T/A at the same time)  you're the cruise line's responsibility from your home airport onwards

Zach posted earlier, suggesting that wasn't the case - I believe Zack is American, and I think that for those who book from the UK the rights and responsibilities under English law are different. But do carefully check the air-cruise small-print.

 

I can't be 100% sure about it,  cos the only air-cruise packages that we've taken have been those of P&O and Thomson (Marella) and now-defunct Voyages of Discovery, which use chartered aircraft (all passengers on the plane are on the cruise). I believe some Fred Olsen cruises use the same system. 

If one of those flights is delayed the ship most-definitely waits - it wouldn't leave 250+ passengers behind !!

And those cruise itineraries are planned with such a delay in mind,  it's a short hop or often a sea-day to the next port-of-call so the ship can make up any lost time.

Have you ever taken one of those cruises? Well worth considering - much simpler, much more reliable,  super-smooth transfers, at the end of the cruise the run-of-the-ship until your airport transfer is called, and a number of other advantages.  

 

JB  

[JMyrtle]

Thank you once again JB

It's one of "Freds" cruises we are looking at so we will wait for the good old anchor fare and then get the local travel agent to book it for us and supply their own chauffeur service to Gatwick. 

I said much the same to my husband that on the " Fred flight"  everyone on the ' plane is going to the ship whereas on the Saga flight we could be the only ones. 

Safety in numbers here I think. 

Getting back is easy because we dock back here in Dover. 

This would be our first fly cruise hence my apprehension. 

Did you find Thompson and P&O OK? We are put off by the huge ships, cost of drinks packages plus possibly the younger age of the other passengers although we definitely prefer Eric Clapton to "Fred's' string quartet, and don't get me started on formal nights! 

 

[Zach1213]

1 hour ago, John Bull said:

It's my understanding that, whether you book direct with a cruise line or thro a UK T/A, if you book the cruise line's air-cruise package (not simply booking both air & cruise thro the same T/A at the same time)  you're the cruise line's responsibility from your home airport onwards

Zach posted earlier, suggesting that wasn't the case - I believe Zack is American, and I think that for those who book from the UK the rights and responsibilities under English law are different. But do carefully check the air-cruise small-print.

 

 

I'm like a Namibian-Hungarian-American hybrid, actually 😉 But that's beside the point, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. My entire point was not about the cruise line getting you to the ship, but about the ship waiting for you. The original statement was that "Presumably if the cruise line books the flights for you the ship waits if there is a delay even if you are joining mid cruise as would be the case here." My post was to warn that nothing says the cruise will wait for you...I was saying that they may, and if they don't they'll work their hardest to get you to the next port, but there are absolutely no guarantees of either no matter where you are. And yes, if there are 250+ people on a chartered flight, there's a greater chance the ship may wait (still no guarantee as they're often at the mercy of the port authorities, tides, etc.), but if you're just buying a ticket on a commercial flight via the cruise like and there's maybe a handful of people who are delayed, you may get lucky and have the ship wait for you...but I doubt you'll find any written guarantee in their legalese.

[John Bull]

Yes, very definitely safety in numbers on one of Fred's chartered fly-cruises.

And on chartered fly-cruises the feeling that the holiday has started as soon as you board the aircraft.

 

I've never cruised with Fred, though my time will surely come.

But I have driven a number of Fred's coach transfers to the airport (is there one that picks up from near you???), so I'm reasonably well-placed to compare. Each time, passengers were mainly active recently-retired Fred stalwarts, ..

 

P&O's Ventura and Azura are huge, for instance the main pool deck is usually heaving with people. But the little pool and bar on the stern deck is much more intimate and relaxed. Because the ships are so big, folk find and frequent the parts that suit them and there'll be parts that suit you.

On one Azura cruise I met neighbours - about two days from the end of the cruise!!!! They had frequented different parts of the ship to us.

 

Those ships do attract families during school holidays, but not too many kids in school time. And P&O's  other ships are adult-only, and they're a sensible size. Aurora has 2000 passengers and is our favourite P&O ship. A wider age-range than Fred, but still mainly passengers of a more-mature age.

 

P&O have only in the last month or two introduced all-you-can-drink packages. I haven't checked thee prices, but they may be testing what the market will stand. 

But like on Fred's ships, drinks prices are about the same as provincial pubs, and no service charge, so you can stick to paying for what you order.

 

Like Fred's, Marella ships are older. Not glitzy, though P&O's ships are also quite bland compared to US ships.

A broader range of ages and income-brackets, but always very friendly ships.

Again lots of kids during school hols.

Marella also used to charge pub prices, but I believe their cruise tickets are now inclusive of drinks - altho' the range is poor.

 

Zach has posted while my typing finger was busy.

Yes, he makes the same point that I did in my second post - the ship is unlikely to wait just because a few passengers' flight was late.

But with fly-cruises using chartered aircraft it's cast in stone, and almost certainly one factor in the choice of departure ports is the ability to sail late That's happened on several fly-cruises we've taken, with sailaway time significantly delayed, once even past midnight. On each occasion, for the reasons in my last post, the ship arrived on-time at the first port-of-call. 

 

If not Fred, then I suspect P&O might best suit you.

 

Hope this helps

 

JB 

 

 

[davecttr]

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 4:32 PM, John Bull said:

 

…...Marella also used to charge pub prices, but I believe their cruise tickets are now inclusive of drinks - altho' the range is poor...….

 

JB 

 

 

The drinks package included in the fare is actually very good with lots of well known named brands. There is a premium upgrade which is £50 per week per person for lots more. Basically you don't get free champagne or wine by the bottle. There are 12 different wines by the glass in the basic package though

[John Bull]

3 hours ago, davecttr said:

The drinks package included in the fare is actually very good with lots of well known named brands. There is a premium upgrade which is £50 per week per person for lots more. Basically you don't get free champagne or wine by the bottle. There are 12 different wines by the glass in the basic package though

 

 

Hi Dave,

 

Haven't sailed Marella since they went AI but when they had packages about half the drinks eg all the bottled beers, all the canned soft drinks & most of the branded spirits carried a premium of £1 to £2 a time. 

Lager & John Smith's draught drinkers were happy, but Guinness drinkers were particularly unhappy bunnies cos they only had bottled.

 

Has the range improved? Or have they switched the per-drink upgrades to a  £50pw package upgrade?

 

JB 

[davecttr]

Reports are just coming in and the basic beer is still John Smiths with Fosters Lager and Strongbow cider plus 7 canned/bottled brands including guiness

 

I like the occasional gin and there are only 3 gins, Gordons, Tanquray and their own blend. with premium there are more well known brands plus 10 craft gins in the Gin and whiskey bar, plus fever tree tonic. Gin and Whisky bars are on the 2 Explorer ships

 

Nobody knows the full list yet and it varies by ship. You can still buy the premium stuff for a small supplement. The premium price of £50 per week includes a 1.5 litre bottle of water per day delivered to your cabin

 

the definitive list should settle down by summer.

[sanger727]

Maybe I’m missing something here. I never purchase a flight package with the cruise. I always fly in the day before the cruise so that way there is time to deal with a delay. Why not just fly in the day before and then the chances of a delay affecting your trip will be nearly zero.

[davecttr]

5 hours ago, sanger727 said:

Maybe I’m missing something here. I never purchase a flight package with the cruise. I always fly in the day before the cruise so that way there is time to deal with a delay. Why not just fly in the day before and then the chances of a delay affecting your trip will be nearly zero.

The OP was from the UK which has specific consumer law dealing with 'package holidays'. If you book a fly cruise in the UK where the flights, transfers and cruise are provided by the cruise line it is a 'package' and the provider is obliged to do their utmost to provide your holiday, So if your flight is delayed and the ship has to sail they are obligated to get you to the next port, at their expense. I have taken a lot of fly cruises and the flights were always on the day the ship departed apart from the flight to Australia.

[sanger727]

48 minutes ago, davecttr said:

The OP was from the UK which has specific consumer law dealing with 'package holidays'. If you book a fly cruise in the UK where the flights, transfers and cruise are provided by the cruise line it is a 'package' and the provider is obliged to do their utmost to provide your holiday, So if your flight is delayed and the ship has to sail they are obligated to get you to the next port, at their expense. I have taken a lot of fly cruises and the flights were always on the day the ship departed apart from the flight to Australia.

Ok. Except the OP seems to find this option uncertain and stressful. Booking a flight in the day before would alleviate much of this stress. Just pointing that out. I assume there’s a discount to bundle.

[jocap]

We cruised with FredO in the summer holidays, and there were around 40-ish children on board, and a younger set of adults- parents, presumably. The staff were marvellous with them.

We've also been on the large P&O ships in term time, and the law is so strict now about taking children out of school that seeing a child on board was rare- mainly babies and pre-school.

We, too, have been on Thomson/Marella when a plane has been delayed until midnight, and were told by a crew member that this did happen and the itinerary was flexible enough for it to happen.