No more Travel Guides/EXC Guides on HAL

[kazu]

14 hours ago, Storylady said:

We just boarded the Prinsendam in Dover on May 6th. That night we attended the “Port Talk” in the showroom given by one of the best travel guides we have had on HAL ships, Brett. It was a full house despite people just boarding. Since the Prinsendam is being sold, I asked Brett which ship he would be assigned to next. And he told me that HAL will soon no longer have travel guides doing port talks. There is a general country talk given by the EXC Guide on the Maasdam given by the Cruise Director who lucky for those sailing on her happens to have been a travel guide. And there might be a similar program on the World Cruise. But the rest of the HAL ships are out of luck.  I am saddened by this change. The port talks are the ONE program I make a point to go to. I plan to say something on the survey and also write a letter to President Orlando not that it will make HAL change their mind. Talk about dumbing down a cruise line, this really puts HAL in the Carnvial mass market category.

 

 

WOW!  I am sorry to hear this.

 

We just got off and I found Brett quite good. 

 

I had done my own research but I go to these talks too.

 

I totally agree with you on dumbing down the cruise line.

 

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I don't doubt the OP's information that was obtained by a crew member.  But, in the past, information from crew members has not always been reliable.  To eliminate the EXC Guide's position is contrary to the purpose of establishing Exploration Central.  And, I think it's marketing appeal as stated in the above quote by cruisemom42 would be significantly diminished if the EXC Guide's job disappeared.

 

Abolishing the position of Cruise Director?  Maybe the title--as well as a person holding such a title--might be eliminated.  I recall that there is a crew member aboard who holds the title of Event Planner.  Maybe a combination of whatever the Event Planner does and whatever the Cruise Director does is in the future.  If so, the title of "Event Planner" sounds more "modern" and "up-to-date" than the historic title of "Cruise Director".

 

On Cunard, the CD is now "Entertainment Director," so perhaps they were trying to get a more modern term. (Maybe getting away from images of Julie McCoy?)  Heaven help us if HAL turns over CD tasks to the Event Planner. The ones I've seen have been pretty bad. At a cooking class, the Event Planner couldn't even give out the recipe cards without a major kerfuffle.

 

[Alphen]

If you look at careers at the HAL website, this may shed some light;

 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/careers/careers-presenters-performers.html

 

This looks new, but is in line with what we have seen on our recent Maasdam in depth EXC voyage; 
Presenters
We’re looking for presenters with deep knowledge of a specific region to deliver educational programs. If you’re a naturalist, anthropologist or specialized educator and enjoy sharing your knowledge with others, we’d like to hear from you.

 

And in contradiction to my earlier find on the Dutch recruitment page, they still have openings for Cruise Directors and EXC guides.

 

Just look here; https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/careers/careers-hosts.html

 

HAL website could be outdated, but only time will tell. If you are on a ship and miss the EXC guide, tell staff on board and make sure you put it in the survey or in direct communication after your cruise. The more that do this, the more chance there is that they may have second thoughts if indeed they want to get rid of the EXC guides.
 

[Storylady]

12 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

If true, just another "brilliant" move by HAL's director of entertainment, right in line with doing away with the production cast and shows. He's on a roll 🙄

 

9 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I don't doubt the OP's information that was obtained by a crew member.  But, in the past, information from crew members has not always been reliable.  To eliminate the EXC Guide's position is contrary to the purpose of establishing Exploration Central.  And, I think it's marketing appeal as stated in the above quote by cruisemom42 would be significantly diminished if the EXC Guide's job disappeared.

 

Abolishing the position of Cruise Director?  Maybe the title--as well as a person holding such a title--might be eliminated.  I recall that there is a crew member aboard who holds the title of Event Planner.  Maybe a combination of whatever the Event Planner does and whatever the Cruise Director does is in the future.  If so, the title of "Event Planner" sounds more "modern" and "up-to-date" than the historic title of "Cruise Director".

Brett knows KK who was until recently a travel guide/EXC Guide. Now she is the Cruise Director. One of her jobs is to give country information as opposed to port information. Hopefully they will keep the EXC Guides on the Grand Voyages.

[syesmar]

19 hours ago, sammiedawg said:

. . . The port guides, (periodically their title changed) were selling port excursions and reading a power point. 

They sat somewhere for a couple hours to take questions.  One gal sat with a Fodors guide to Norway and used the index to look up subjects.  I asked a question on how to see a particular cultural group and she pulled out the list of excursions for that port.  She had previously marked  with yellow highlighter the listed points of interest on each tour  The second guy also read the power point, not sure if he could answer questions. 

 

I am not sure what has been lost if the lament is about port guides.  I can read excursions lists and get an idea on what to see.  . . .

 

 

Agree that some are definitely lacking.  When you realize you’ve done more research on a port, it leaves you shaking your head. . . .

But  on my last sailing, ours was absolutely outstanding.  She was a huge plus for the sailing.  It seemed to be an improved step in the right direction for HAL.  Hoping they’re just re-branding the role.

[Catlover54]

On Zaandam recently the EXC guide Abie (sp., from S. Africa) was very good, customer friendly, and helpful.  He gave informative, though short, objectibe talks about what to do in the ports.

[bcummin]

10 hours ago, Storylady said:

 

Brett knows KK who was until recently a travel guide/EXC Guide. Now she is the Cruise Director. One of her jobs is to give country information as opposed to port information. Hopefully they will keep the EXC Guides on the Grand Voyages.

 

When KK joined ms Maasdam on January 26, she became the "Director" of the EXC In-Depth program.  Her predecessor had been called the "Lead Presenter."

By the time we left February 15, she had made stunning changes to add life to the program.  Brett and Matthew gave port and country information, maintaining their distance from shore excursions.

I am so pleased that she was promoted to Cruise Director.  She earned it. 

Barbara

Edited May 9, 2019 by bcummin

[saatuk]

18 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

On Cunard, the CD is now "Entertainment Director," so perhaps they were trying to get a more modern term. (Maybe getting away from images of Julie McCoy?)  Heaven help us if HAL turns over CD tasks to the Event Planner. The ones I've seen have been pretty bad. At a cooking class, the Event Planner couldn't even give out the recipe cards without a major kerfuffle.

 

 My last 2 cruises were on P&O and there was no CD. The 'Entertainment Director' didn't really conform to the CD. No PA announcements, etc.  It was different. Mind you I expected PandO to be different. :)

 

There were certainly long talks in advance of each port with really good information from a staff member who had been there.

Edited May 9, 2019 by saatuk

[sail7seas]

21 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

On Cunard, the CD is now "Entertainment Director," so perhaps they were trying to get a more modern term. (Maybe getting away from images of Julie McCoy?)  Heaven help us if HAL turns over CD tasks to the Event Planner. The ones I've seen have been pretty bad. At a cooking class, the Event Planner couldn't even give out the recipe cards without a major kerfuffle.

 

 

 

While I am sure  the crew mean well and think the info they  pass along to pax is correct, in the   past, a number of times  we sometimes  learned  the information was 'faulty. 

  We always  trusted but verified.  🙂

 

 

 

 

sail.noordam@gmail.com

[mcmarya]

Apparently the shore excursions are not no going to be called EXC Tours going forward.  Sounds like "EXC" is being phased out.

[DaveOKC]

59 minutes ago, mcmarya said:

Apparently the shore excursions are not no going to be called EXC Tours going forward.  Sounds like "EXC" is being phased out.

I find the EXC tours to be superior to HAL's previous offerings.  Sure hope this does not change!

 

[Hlitner]

 

1 hour ago, mcmarya said:

Apparently the shore excursions are not no going to be called EXC Tours going forward.  Sounds like "EXC" is being phased out.

WOW!  They have barely finished phasing it in!

 

Hank

[Cruisin Kay D]

Is HAL having a problem figuring out their purpose for the future?  We have been on HA 7x, with the 7th being on Koningsdam in January.   The CD on it was nearly non-existent or a ghost.....we heard him on speaker, but that's about it.   A 9 night cruise, with nearly nothing to do during daytime except computer classes & 1 trivia a day held at 4 pm @ exact same time as the BOGO Happy Hour, which was disappointing!!  It was a vast wasteland inside  the ship during daytime.  Instead people were around the pools which had too little space for sitting outside.  We did like the NY Deli, but it is by the pool & not enough space devoted to this new eatery with too few tables for people to eat their food.   

One month later we went on Allure of the Seas for 1st time and it was SO lively everywhere, all day!!   Lots of different venues to eat that it was hard to try them all in 1 week.   What a difference!  I was shocked!

Edited May 9, 2019 by Cruisin Kay D

[Himself]

On 5/8/2019 at 4:53 AM, Krazy Kruizers said:

Sorry to hear about these changes.

 

HAL is being Carnivalized more and more as time goes by.  This was something we all worried about back in 1989 when Carnival bought HAL.  It didn't happen then, but it looks like it is happening now.

You are right.  It is happening little by little.

[taxmantoo]

1 hour ago, mcmarya said:

Apparently the shore excursions are not no going to be called EXC Tours going forward.  Sounds like "EXC" is being phased out.

 

48 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

 

WOW!  They have barely finished phasing it in!

 

Hank

Exactly, and it is not the first thing introduced under the Orlando Ashford regime that has failed miserably to the point of being cancelled.  EXC now, the Culinary Arts Center on the Koningsdam a few months ago, not to mention who has heard of the supposedly great partnership with AFAR lately... How long before Oprah goes?  How long before Blend on the Koningsdam and the Nieuw Statendam is a thing of the past?    

[sail7seas]

On 5/8/2019 at 2:09 PM, Copper10-8 said:

If true, just another "brilliant" move by HAL's director of entertainment, right in line with doing away with the production cast and shows. He's on a roll 🙄

 

 

Is that Mr. Bill Prince?

 

 

 

 

 

 

sail.noordam@gmail.com

Edited May 9, 2019 by sail7seas

[Hlitner]

31 minutes ago, taxmantoo said:

 

Exactly, and it is not the first thing introduced under the Orlando Ashford regime that has failed miserably to the point of being cancelled.  EXC now, the Culinary Arts Center on the Koningsdam a few months ago, not to mention who has heard of the supposedly great partnership with AFAR lately... How long before Oprah goes?  How long before Blend on the Koningsdam and the Nieuw Statendam is a thing of the past?    

This is a tough blog because there are many super HAL fans who will not admit that HAL can ever do anything wrong.  We have a different attitude.  Like many of the HAL Cheerleaders we are 5 Star Mariners and used to find much to like about the line.  But we have felt for the last few years that HAL has lost its way and does not have a clue how they want to fit in the cruise world.   Every time we go on the line it is like a new experience and we no longer know what to expect (except the dessert crisps in the MDR and the tired menu in the Pinnacle).    How on earth can they justify spending a lot of money on large theaters on their new ships only to do away with all the production shows?  The Culinary demos sounds great, but is often a total bore.  DW is a great cook (I call her a talented Chef) and she usually skips the Culinary demos because they are not making anything special.  

 

I thought that the BB King idea was one of HAL's best entertainment advances...but they now only have it on about half the ships on the fleet.  And don't even think about asking one of the BB King groups to actually play BB King music!  HAL has put themselves into a rut..and they do not seem to have clue how to escape.  They want to attract a younger generation of cruisers (who spend more money onboard) but they have eliminated production shows that are a strong attraction for this generation.  If you can find a band onboard they are likely playing Glenn Miller music...which does not do much for the younger (that would be under 60) generation.  As I said earlier, the Pinnacle menu is tired and not very innovative.  So-so steak is not going to attract folks that understand what to expect at a real steakhouse.  The ole Lobster Bisque is......just old!  And then there is the real "innovative" Caesar Salad which is about the same quality as the salad we get at Olive Garden.   We do think that the lunches in the Pinnacle are quite good, but they only have that meal on a few days of any cruise.

 

I am not going to blame Mr. Ashford although one could make a decent argument that it all starts (and ends) at the top.  But Mr. Ashford needs to kick some butt and we think it needs to start with Rudi since the menus just seem "tired" for lack of a better word.  Even with a strict cost per passenger day limit, food can be more innovative.  All the mass market lines are wrestling with how to produce decent menus at a lower cost (i.e. use small shrimp instead of jumbo shrimp).  HAL does OK, but is no better or worse then most other lines.  The food we had on MSC (their yacht club) was far more interesting then anything we have had on HAL in many years.

 

And then we have the inability of HAL to recognize that younger cruisers demand decent Internet!   Not only is HAL's Internet service among the worst....but their pricing is also among the highest.  And to the best of our knowledge HAL might be the only mass market line not to give lots of free Internet to their most loyal cruisers.  Even as a 5 Star Mariner I get zip!  Internet service is very important to many cruisers.  Perhaps HAL thinks they can continue to thrive with we old retirees (I am in that group) who do not care about the Internet...but that is like using horses to pull a cruise ship through a canal!  Come to think of it there are probably some HAL cruisers who remember those horse days :).

 

Hank

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, Himself said:

You are right.  It is happening little by little.

 

Just remember, if had not been for Carnival Corporation's buying HAL, it's likely there would be no DAM ships today.

[rkacruiser]

3 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I am not going to blame Mr. Ashford although one could make a decent argument that it all starts (and ends) at the top.  But Mr. Ashford needs to kick some butt and we think it needs to start with Rudi since the menus just seem "tired" for lack of a better word.  Even with a strict cost per passenger day limit, food can be more innovative.  All the mass market lines are wrestling with how to produce decent menus at a lower cost (i.e. use small shrimp instead of jumbo shrimp).  HAL does OK, but is no better or worse then most other lines.  The food we had on MSC (their yacht club) was far more interesting then anything we have had on HAL in many years.

 

I support your thinking in your entire post.  I chose this passage to quote because of your statement that "Mr. Ashford needs to kick some butt..."  I would love to know why Mr. Ashford was chosen to become President of HAL with the background he had in the business world.  There are other executives with maritime experience that could have been wooed to jump from where they were employed.  Some will take issue with my opinion of Stein Kruse, but I think he was an excellent CEO for HAL, a fitting replacement for Kirk Lanterman.  (Mr. Lanterman:  where are we when we need you?)  Does some "butt need to be kicked"?  Maybe a better question is why some of the new executive hires that have been made to replace those who have retired were hired.  The new VP in charge of Food and Beverage is a disaster based upon my January cruises on Nieuw Statendam when I dined in the MDR.  The Wine List was "improved":  yes, in the interest of the bottom line and a loss of long available quality wines.  Many MDR dinner menus offered selections in all categories that may be "in tune with the dining fads of the time", but were a turn-off for me.

 

I've booked MSC Meraviglia in Yacht Club for a January cruise following my Volendam's Christmas/New Year's cruise in my regular F category stateroom (when I can get it).  I'm looking forward to the comparison.  (Or maybe the cultural shock?)

[3rdGenCunarder]

27 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

This is a tough blog because there are many super HAL fans who will not admit that HAL can ever do anything wrong.  We have a different attitude.  Like many of the HAL Cheerleaders we are 5 Star Mariners and used to find much to like about the line.  But we have felt for the last few years that HAL has lost its way and does not have a clue how they want to fit in the cruise world.   Every time we go on the line it is like a new experience and we no longer know what to expect (except the dessert crisps in the MDR and the tired menu in the Pinnacle).    How on earth can they justify spending a lot of money on large theaters on their new ships only to do away with all the production shows?  The Culinary demos sounds great, but is often a total bore.  DW is a great cook (I call her a talented Chef) and she usually skips the Culinary demos because they are not making anything special.  

 

I thought that the BB King idea was one of HAL's best entertainment advances...but they now only have it on about half the ships on the fleet.  And don't even think about asking one of the BB King groups to actually play BB King music!  HAL has put themselves into a rut..and they do not seem to have clue how to escape.  They want to attract a younger generation of cruisers (who spend more money onboard) but they have eliminated production shows that are a strong attraction for this generation.  If you can find a band onboard they are likely playing Glenn Miller music...which does not do much for the younger (that would be under 60) generation.  As I said earlier, the Pinnacle menu is tired and not very innovative.  So-so steak is not going to attract folks that understand what to expect at a real steakhouse.  The ole Lobster Bisque is......just old!  And then there is the real "innovative" Caesar Salad which is about the same quality as the salad we get at Olive Garden.   We do think that the lunches in the Pinnacle are quite good, but they only have that meal on a few days of any cruise.

 

I am not going to blame Mr. Ashford although one could make a decent argument that it all starts (and ends) at the top.  But Mr. Ashford needs to kick some butt and we think it needs to start with Rudi since the menus just seem "tired" for lack of a better word.  Even with a strict cost per passenger day limit, food can be more innovative.  All the mass market lines are wrestling with how to produce decent menus at a lower cost (i.e. use small shrimp instead of jumbo shrimp).  HAL does OK, but is no better or worse then most other lines.  The food we had on MSC (their yacht club) was far more interesting then anything we have had on HAL in many years.

 

And then we have the inability of HAL to recognize that younger cruisers demand decent Internet!   Not only is HAL's Internet service among the worst....but their pricing is also among the highest.  And to the best of our knowledge HAL might be the only mass market line not to give lots of free Internet to their most loyal cruisers.  Even as a 5 Star Mariner I get zip!  Internet service is very important to many cruisers.  Perhaps HAL thinks they can continue to thrive with we old retirees (I am in that group) who do not care about the Internet...but that is like using horses to pull a cruise ship through a canal!  Come to think of it there are probably some HAL cruisers who remember those horse days :).

 

Hank

 

 

Have you noticed that the "cheerleaders" have been more quiet lately? I think more and more people who love HAL are becoming unhappy with HAL. My last two cruises were on the K and I just don't like that ship. I wasn't happy on it. It didn't "feel like HAL." I suppose it's because it's more modern and I'm an old fogey. But so many little things were disappointing or annoying, and service was slipping, so the overall experience wasn't what I expected. Maybe it's that ship, or maybe I'm falling out of love with HAL. I've got a cruise booked for next winter on Zuiderdam. I've always loved the Vistas. So maybe Zuidy will bring me back into the fold.

 

I think "clueless"is a good description for HAL. They bounce from idea to idea, implementing new things on some ships but not others to the point that the experience varies too much from ship to ship. They're losing their identity. 

 

 

[Copper10-8]

47 minutes ago, sail7seas said:

 

 

Is that Mr. Bill Prince?

 

 

 

 

 

 

sail.noordam@gmail.com

 

 

Hi S7S, yes Ma'am!

[sppunk]

36 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Just remember, if had not been for Carnival Corporation's buying HAL, it's likely there would be no DAM ships today.

There is no “likely” - it definitely saved HAL from extinction.

[taxmantoo]

28 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I support your thinking in your entire post.  I chose this passage to quote because of your statement that "Mr. Ashford needs to kick some butt..."  I would love to know why Mr. Ashford was chosen to become President of HAL with the background he had in the business world.  There are other executives with maritime experience that could have been wooed to jump from where they were employed.  Some will take issue with my opinion of Stein Kruse, but I think he was an excellent CEO for HAL, a fitting replacement for Kirk Lanterman. 

I do not personally know Mr. Ashford or any "human resources" specialist.  I have however worked in both private business and the government long enough to come to the realization that one should never hire a "human resources" specialist and make them the organization's "operations" specialist.  It simply does not work.

I also believe Stein Kruse was an excellent administrator and a leader in the cruise industry.

Sorry for having led this thread off subject ... 

[rkacruiser]

18 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

It didn't "feel like HAL." I suppose it's because it's more modern and I'm an old fogey. But so many little things were disappointing or annoying, and service was slipping, so the overall experience wasn't what I expected. 

 

My experience has been on Nieuw Statendam rather than Koningsdam.  "It didn't feel like HAL".  Yes.  I still can't put my finger on it.  But, the ship had a different "feel".  Service was excellent; it met the "Standard of Excellence" that I expect in the Lounges, dining rooms, and stateroom.  (If anything, the Lido Restaurant service was more attentive than usual.)

 

I embarked Nieuw Statendam after a 7 days cruise on Royal Princess.  That was a new experience on such a sized and modern ship.  Nieuw Statendam provided another new experience.  After several months of reflection, I think if I would sail on such a sized and modern (as to decor) ship again, I will be better prepared to withstand what I now think was a cruise cultural shock for me.

[josumello]

This post has really made me stop and think. We were planning on booking a 32 Day Hawaii/Tahiti cruise round trip from San Diego. This would be our first HAL cruise. Over the years we’ve cruised many lines from budget to luxury. Some better than others. 

What worries me about HAL is what appears the lack of activities and the lack of entertainment. The itinerary is excellent. However with a lot of sea days we would like some activities. 

Will have to rethink this cruise.