Luxury vs. Premium Plus cruise lines

[saminina]

On 10/26/2019 at 11:57 AM, vistaman said:

I just received the Berlitz guide 2020 last week.

Europa 2 and Europa did receive 5 stars plus, Hanseatic Nature 5 stars , Sea Cloud and Sea Cloud II also 5 stars;

All the other companies  in the "luxury" level did receive a 4 star plus rating,

even Seadream I and II .

Viking ocean ships were granted  some higher marks as the Crystal Serenity and the Symphony.  Silver Spirit and Muse above the Seabourn ships , the Seabourn Quest only 4 stars . ( and quite a severe comment towards Hal management on page 158)

Nearly all Mein Schiff ships did receive a 4 star +

Ship with the lowest ratings is the Marco Polo operated by CMV. 2 stars

 

Berlitz has been late to the party downgrading some lines.  They were way late on Silversea and somewhat late with Seabourn.  They would be even more critical of Quest today versus a year ago.   Yet passengers sailing both lines seem content and delusional to the constant downgrades.   It's good to see Berlitz call out Seabourn.   Seriously, you would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind not to notice.   I'm not picking on Seabourn because, to me, they offer very good value today.  But it has strayed far from the product offered four years ago.   

 

All the companies, including H-L, have a serious problem finding qualified people to manage and provide service at all levels.

Edited November 2, 2019 by saminina

[honumaui]

Having sailed on both Regent & Windstar, I would put Regent in the luxury category and enjoyed it ( great tours and business class to the Med.) but in many ways prefer Windstar.  The experience of being on a sailing ship is amazing.  The thrill of sailing away from port and other ships taking our picture was so neat ! It is not a luxury ship but the food & service equaled Regent. No fancy entertainment..just lounge chairs in the dark in front of the bridge to watch the stars.A nice combo in the lounge for dancing..an open bridge..you really feel like you are on a yacht instead of a cruise ship,

[misterkevin]

My background is in statistics. While I personally appreciate the subjective nature of comparing Luxury vs Premium lines most of this thread has highlighted: service, food, and included amenities, there are some obvious quantitative differences differentiating luxury lines, premium plus lines, and the rest. No luxury lines have ships with over 1200 passengers. Crystal has relatively larger passenger capacities at 848 and 950, while most of the others have 650 or fewer. However, when you look more closely at the Space to Passenger ratios and Passenger to Crew Ratios, all of the lines this thread collectively consider Luxury have the highest ratios relative to other lines of the same capacity. 

 

I took the fleet information from cruisemapper from 2015, averaged the passenger size of each ship and filtered the lines by size of ship, so while Princess and Celebrity appear on this chart, only ships in their fleet with fewer than 1200 passengers were included in this chart. The luxury lines stand alone in the upper quadrant.

Edited July 15, 2020 by misterkevin
correction

[orchestrapal]

Terrific addition to luxury considerations for those who don’t

want rub elbows with fellow passengers or stand in lines.

Space is a real luxury.

[calliopecruiser]

On 7/16/2020 at 9:30 AM, orchestrapal said:

 for those who don’t

want rub elbows with fellow passengers

I think of it more as "for those who want to choose if or when to rub elbows with fellow passengers"

[LewiLewi]

On 8/1/2019 at 1:05 PM, Travelcat2 said:

Adding Ponant to the second list:

 

Luxury

Crystal

Hapag-Lloyd

Regent

SeaDream Yacht Club

Seabourn

Silversea

 

Luxury/Premium Plus

Azamara

Oceania

Ponant

Viking Ocean

 

I

After over 160+ cruises, including Viking and Crystal, Windstar has become my favorite. Definitely add them to this list. 

[SoCalCruiseLife]

Whether on a cruise or land tour, nothing more fun than hanging out with a group of friendly travelers whose first language is not English...especially after a few rounds of cocktails.  Seven years ago, my daughter and I get a nice couple from Italy the wife spoke some English and is a lawyer like me...the hatband, no English at all.  We used a translator in the bar and then hung out for a portion of the trip.  They are visiting us with their Toddlers this Summer to visit Disneyland and we are visitng them on our next Italian journey.  Today, with language APPS and inexpensive translators there is no real obstacle.

[vistaman]

I hope for your friends  and yourself these people are able to enter the US , as for the moment European Union people still cannot go and visit  the US ... vaccinated or not ... 

 

[ak1004]

I was just going to create a topic discussing the differences, and then I noticed this one.

 

So.. what makes a line luxury?

 

To me, it's mostly the service, the food and the size of the ships.

 

Celebrity Retreat might feel luxurious, and I'm sure the service and the food are very good, but once you step out of the retreat, you are on a mass market ship, with 3,000+ other passengers. Which means lines, crowds, more time to leave the ship and to come back etc. It might be more "fun", but it's definitely not luxury.

 

So lets focus on Luxury vs. Premium plus.

 

Why Oceania or Azamara are premium plus and Crystal is luxury? Is it because Crystal has more inclusions? But Viking includes excursions, so it's more luxury than Crystal? 

 

Is it the size of the cabins? Again, Viking has nice and bigger cabins (at least the entry level categories) than Crystal.

 

Is it the size of the ship? Azamara has smaller ships than Crystal.

 

Is it better itineraries? Azamara probably beats most luxury lines in terms of itineraries.

 

If we go back to inclusions, then Regent would be considered the most luxurious because it includes everything, but many cruisers still prefer Crystal with the least amount of inclusions.

 

So far we sailed on Crystal, Oceania and Azamara (the rest were mass market like Celebrity and Princess). The cabins were really small on Azamara, and the activities on Oceania were very weak. Other than that, I would definitely put Crystal, Oceania and Azamara in the same category.

[ak1004]

On 7/15/2020 at 4:04 PM, misterkevin said:

 

I took the fleet information from cruisemapper from 2015, averaged the passenger size of each ship and filtered the lines by size of ship, so while Princess and Celebrity appear on this chart, only ships in their fleet with fewer than 1200 passengers were included in this chart. The luxury lines stand alone in the upper quadrant.

 

This is a very useful information.

 

Couple questions:

Crystal tow main ships have passenger to crew ratio of about 0.66. Does your chart include the river ships?

Oceania has the ratio of around 0.65, your chart shows 0.55?

 

Viking has 550 crew and 930 passengers on the Ocean ships, that's 0.60, not 0.50. Maybe your statistics include their river boats?

 

But overall, numbers don't line. Looks like luxury or premium plus lines have passenger to crew ratios of about 0.60-0.65, and this is one of the main factors that make them luxury.

[calliopecruiser]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

Couple questions:

Crystal tow main ships have passenger to crew ratio of about 0.66

Well, that's moot now - Crystal will no longer be running any ships for the foreseeable future. 

 

What makes a ship a "luxury" is subjective, as the ships (or star ratings) have no specific meaning except to those who award them.   To me, luxury has nothing to do with the size of the cabins, and everything to do with the atmosphere of the ship and the service of the crew - and the quality of the food.  All subjective things.  In my past Crystal sailings, they were definitely luxury class, even on their old ships, because the crew was attentive and almost intuitive to passengers needs and wants, because the food was incredible, and because there were no announcements and no one trying to sell you something - even a future cruise.  Of course there were people there to sell you things, but you had to approach them, they would not approach you.  But your time was your time, without interruption.

[DanJimmy]

Luxury:

 

1) Seabourn

2) Silversea

3) Ponant

4) Swan Hellenic

5) Atlas Ocean Voyages (still work to do but it's almost there to be considered a luxury)

 

Premium:

 

1) Hurtigruten

2) Viking

3) Quark

 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by DanJimmy

[Stickman1990]

1 hour ago, DanJimmy said:

Luxury:

 

1) Seabourn

2) Silversea

3) Ponant

4) Swan Hellenic

5) Atlas Ocean Voyages (still work to do but it's almost there to be considered a luxury)

 

Premium:

 

1) Hurtigruten

2) Viking

3) Quark

 

 

A long way from agreeing with you…

 

How about this:

 

Luxury

 

Crystal

Europa

Explora Journeys 

Regent

Ritz Carlton 

Seabourn

Silversea 

 

Premium

 

Celebrity

Holland America

Oceania

Paul Gaughan 

Ponant

Scenic 

Swan

Viking

Windstar

 

Too early to tell/Not sure

 

Atlas 

Hurtigruten 

 

Who have I forgotten? 

 

 

 

 

[DanJimmy]

14 minutes ago, Stickman1990 said:

A long way from agreeing with you…

 

How about this:

 

Luxury

 

Crystal

Europa

Explora Journeys 

Regent

Ritz Carlton 

Seabourn

Silversea 

 

Premium

 

Celebrity

Holland America

Oceania

Paul Gaughan 

Ponant

Scenic 

Swan

Viking

Windstar

 

Too early to tell/Not sure

 

Atlas 

Hurtigruten 

 

Who have I forgotten? 

 

 

 

 

I feel categorizing Ponant and Swan as Premium is not fair. They are certainly luxury in my view and are definitely comparable with SB and SS.

 

I agree that Atlas is too early to categorize and I am okay if you put Hurtigruten below Premium category. 🙂

[calliopecruiser]

3 hours ago, DanJimmy said:

Luxury:

 

1) Seabourn

2) Silversea

3) Ponant

4) Swan Hellenic

5) Atlas Ocean Voyages (still work to do but it's almost there to be considered a luxury)

 

Premium:

 

1) Hurtigruten

2) Viking

3) Quark

 

You left out several lines that belong in one or the other of those categories, like Regent Seven Seas, Crystal, Europa, WindStar, Paul Gauguin, and Ritz-Carleton

Edited August 13, 2023 by calliopecruiser

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, Stickman1990 said:

A long way from agreeing with you…

 

How about this:

 

Luxury

 

Crystal

Europa

Explora Journeys 

Regent

Ritz Carlton 

Seabourn

Silversea 

 

Premium

 

Celebrity

Holland America

Oceania

Paul Gaughan 

Ponant

Scenic 

Swan

Viking

Windstar

 

Too early to tell/Not sure

 

Atlas 

Hurtigruten 

 

Who have I forgotten? 

 

 

 

 

Agree about Luxury, but Ocenia, Viking and Windstar don't belong to same category as Celebrity and Holland. I would call them premium plus, and they are much closer to luxury (SS/SB0 than to Celebrity. And Azamara blongs to the same premium plus category.

Edited August 13, 2023 by ak1004

[DanJimmy]

1 hour ago, calliopecruiser said:

 

You left out several lines that belong in one or the other of those categories, like Regent Seven Seas, Crystal, Europa, WindStar, Paul Gauguin, and Ritz-Carleton

I agree with you.

 

My apologies, I should have mentioned that I was focusing more on the Antarctica expedition cruises as that's what I have been researching lately.

[calliopecruiser]

3 hours ago, ak1004 said:

And Azamara blongs to the same premium plus category.

I'm on Azamara now, and I strongly disagree with that........they're not at step below luxury, even if they're a step above Holland America.  Maybe Premium, though I don't think what I'm seeing here should be considered premium (perhaps some good food and included alcohol puts in it a premium category), but not "premium plus".

[ak1004]

2 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

I'm on Azamara now, and I strongly disagree with that........they're not at step below luxury, even if they're a step above Holland America.  Maybe Premium, though I don't think what I'm seeing here should be considered premium (perhaps some good food and included alcohol puts in it a premium category), but not "premium plus".

 

So you would consider Azamara below Oceania/Viking? Would you mind to elaborate? We sailed with them in 2019 and liked them. Maybe not as much as Oceania, but pretty close. The cabins are a big minus of course, but everything else was pretty good. Maybe things have changed in 4 years.

[calliopecruiser]

23 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

So you would consider Azamara below Oceania/Viking?

I don't know, because I've never sailed either, but I can say I wouldn't call Azamara a Premium Plus line, just a step below Luxury.   The service, as much as the small cabins with tiny bathrooms, aren't almost luxury. 

[Stickman1990]

10 hours ago, DanJimmy said:

I feel categorizing Ponant and Swan as Premium is not fair. They are certainly luxury in my view and are definitely comparable with SB and SS🙂

No doubt this discussion and categorisation is an Art not a Science 

 

I haven’t sailed either of these lines so happy to hear opinions and this is really just a discussion rather then a “hard” definition - I have friends who’ve sailed Ponant and it’s probably line ball on whether they’re true luxury or Premium Plus

 

I was thinking of adding Azamara when I did my initial post but they slipped my mind - I’d put them as Premium Plus but I defer to Calliope Cruiser as I know her cruising background and value her judgement 

 

I agree Holland and Celebrity are lower level Premium Plus 

 

The nice thing here is we can have a discussion and share views without people obsessing about who is “better” than x line - it’s not about that is it @ak1004 😂😂😂😉

[ak1004]

15 minutes ago, Stickman1990 said:

No doubt this discussion and categorisation is an Art not a Science 

 

I haven’t sailed either of these lines so happy to hear opinions and this is really just a discussion rather then a “hard” definition - I have friends who’ve sailed Ponant and it’s probably line ball on whether they’re true luxury or Premium Plus

 

I was thinking of adding Azamara when I did my initial post but they slipped my mind - I’d put them as Premium Plus but I defer to Calliope Cruiser as I know her cruising background and value her judgement 

 

I agree Holland and Celebrity are lower level Premium Plus 

 

The nice thing here is we can have a discussion and share views without people obsessing about who is “better” than x line - it’s not about that is it @ak1004 😂😂😂😉

 

Agree.

 

To me, Oceania and Azamara was a huge step up compared to Celebrity and Holland. Small ships, no crowds, no lines, no nickel and diming. To me, this is huge. Then you go up another step to luxury, which to me is much smaller. We sailed on old Crystal and SS. In my opinion, you get a slightly better service, maybe a bit more personalized. Food is not necessarily better, I would say comparable. Of course the fact that they are all inclusive is a huge factor to some people - not to me.

[Hlitner]

At one time we would have agreed that HAL was a Premium product.  Based on our most recent 6 week cruise on the Westerdam (Mar-May) we now consider HAL among the bottom tier of mass market lines.  
 

Hank

[DanJimmy]

23 hours ago, Hlitner said:

At one time we would have agreed that HAL was a Premium product.  Based on our most recent 6 week cruise on the Westerdam (Mar-May) we now consider HAL among the bottom tier of mass market lines.  
 

Hank

What happened in that cruise? Would it be possible for you to elaborate a little more?

 

Thank you for sharing!

[BarbarianPaul]

On 8/15/2023 at 10:32 AM, Hlitner said:

At one time we would have agreed that HAL was a Premium product.  Based on our most recent 6 week cruise on the Westerdam (Mar-May) we now consider HAL among the bottom tier of mass market lines.  
 

Hank

Yes…please give more details. We’re getting on the Zuiderdam in a month for a 10 day Canada cruise, and your thoughts will be helpful. 
 

We were on the Westerdam right before the pandemic and the food was awful. I’m hoping it’s gotten better.