Britain's biggest cruise operator is becoming 'Butlins on Sea', Which? survey finds (today's Telegraph)

[Les_ldh]

After reading this thread I took a look at Saga’s website last night and priced up some summer cruises. For me, as a solo cruiser, it definitely wouldn’t work as the prices were coming out at around 3x P&O prices. ☹️
Les.

[AndyMichelle]

43 minutes ago, Les_ldh said:

After reading this thread I took a look at Saga’s website last night and priced up some summer cruises. For me, as a solo cruiser, it definitely wouldn’t work as the prices were coming out at around 3x P&O prices. ☹️
Les.

We did the same Les, couldn't get anything under double P&O prices. 

Even allowing for our average drinking, we would still have to spend much, much more than P&O equivalent. 

It is probably worth it from what everyone else says, but I'm still happy enough having 2 P&O cruises to Sagas 1...

Andy 

Edited January 31, 2020 by AndyMichelle

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

Selbourne - you could ask your question on the Saga cruises board. You might get more replies by posting there.  

Yes, that’s true, but I guess I was particularly interested to hear from cruisers who, like us, are more P&O inclined, as the direct comparison is most relevant. 

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, Selbourne said:

Yes, that’s true, but I guess I was particularly interested to hear from cruisers who, like us, are more P&O inclined, as the direct comparison is most relevant. 

Agreed, but you might find posters on there who have experience of P&O, but don't read this board. 

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, brian1 said:

On Cunard the only freedom option was on club balconies upwards.But was worth it for the guaranteed seats and table for BLD.

Thanks Brian. Excuse my ignorance, but what is BLD? I made the mistake of Googling it and the first answer was ‘Bad Life Decision’ and the second was the ‘street’ definition which I won’t repeat on here but made me laugh out loud. I am sure that neither is the case!

[wowzz]

8 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Thanks Brian. Excuse my ignorance, but what is BLD? I made the mistake of Googling it and the first answer was ‘Bad Life Decision’ and the second was the ‘street’ definition which I won’t repeat on here but made me laugh out loud. I am sure that neither is the case!

Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner ?

[brian1]

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

Thanks Brian. Excuse my ignorance, but what is BLD? I made the mistake of Googling it and the first answer was ‘Bad Life Decision’ and the second was the ‘street’ definition which I won’t repeat on here but made me laugh out loud. I am sure that neither is the case!

LOL.not the 1st one,breakfast,lunch and dinner.We had the same dedicated waiter and assistant for all 3 at our reserved table for 2.

[phillipahain]

On 1/30/2020 at 2:43 PM, Selbourne said:

Their new ships do look very nice, but three things put us off. Firstly, we are ‘only’ mid 50’s, so feel a bit too young for Saga! Secondly, the last time I checked they still allowed smoking on balconies. That’s a massive ‘no’ for us and would, on it’s own, prevent us from booking with a cruise line (I’m prepared to be corrected on that as I might be muddling them up with Fred Olsen). Thirdly, they do seem very expensive. Again, happy to be corrected on any of these issues as I might be going on out of date info. 

Any ship that still allows smoking on balconies would certainly not be in many peoples wishes ...Pand O smoking areas on Arcadia are far too big and a nightmare and directly affect many non smokers  especially on the promenade deck 

[Clodia]

On 1/30/2020 at 10:19 AM, Selbourne said:

Thanks Andy. My wife would laugh at the suggestion that I am ‘tolerant’ and I would have to admit that it’s not my strongest skill, but I know for a fact that the current P&O passenger profile ranges from millionaires to those who have taken out a loan for a ‘once in a lifetime’ experience that they will spend many years paying for. P&O is wise to provide an experience that caters for both extremes, even if it doesn’t always suit us. 
 

The thing that is probably causing us to book less now than previously is that cruises on Aurora (our favourite overall cruise experience) are starting to become very expensive. Even though we can afford them, we are starting to question if they represent genuine value for money. We tend to book at launch as we now need accessible cabins, but the price per night of our 3 week summer cruise this year is considerably more than the price per night of our 3 week summer cruise last year - both on Aurora, both booked at launch. The interesting thing is that last years was booked before the announcements that Aurora was becoming adult only and that gratuities were included. As someone who has kept a detailed log of the net price (base price less OBC) that we have paid for every one of our cruises, whilst cruise prices have reduced in real terms over the years, the recent changes have definitely spiked the prices on Aurora and I am under no illusion that gratuities are not ‘free’ but have been rolled into the prices, mostly through reduced OBC - in spite of what some others on here insist! 
 

 

Agree that Aurora, my favourite ship and the one which gives the most upmarket experience, is becoming very expensive especially for a solo cruiser. Expensive though it is ( about double the cost of Aurora because low single supplements are available) I found Silversea better value and of course a fantastic experience. Sitting down with a spreadsheet I figured I could afford one cruise with Silversea to 2 with Aurora. No prizes for guessing where the future lies...

[wowzz]

22 minutes ago, Clodia said:

Agree that Aurora, my favourite ship and the one which gives the most upmarket experience, is becoming very expensive especially for a solo cruiser. Expensive though it is ( about double the cost of Aurora because low single supplements are available) I found Silversea better value and of course a fantastic experience. Sitting down with a spreadsheet I figured I could afford one cruise with Silversea to 2 with Aurora. No prizes for guessing where the future lies...

I guess I know the answer. I suppose my question is, do you consider a cruise with Silversea to be twice as good as a cruise on Aurora?   In my younger days,  when still earning, I would have opted for the more luxurious option. Now, with a limited budget, and limited remaining years, I look for ways to spend as much time away, in reasonable comfort, at reasonable cost, and therefore tend to still stick with the better mass market lines.

 

[AndyMichelle]

56 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I guess I know the answer. I suppose my question is, do you consider a cruise with Silversea to be twice as good as a cruise on Aurora?   In my younger days,  when still earning, I would have opted for the more luxurious option. Now, with a limited budget, and limited remaining years, I look for ways to spend as much time away, in reasonable comfort, at reasonable cost, and therefore tend to still stick with the better mass market lines.

 

I still think P&O gives us everything we want at affordable prices. 

I'm comfortable in the P&O surroundings, not sure I would be so comfortable in the a la carte, silver service surroundings of the 'posher' lines. 

I must be the 'new' type of cruiser some seem to moan about... 

Oh well, if you don't want to cruise with good mannered, respectful people who are very inclusive to everyone but like a bit of a giggle and drink beer with dinner, jog on... 

Andy 

[Selbourne]

6 minutes ago, Clodia said:

Agree that Aurora, my favourite ship and the one which gives the most upmarket experience, is becoming very expensive especially for a solo cruiser. Expensive though it is ( about double the cost of Aurora because low single supplements are available) I found Silversea better value and of course a fantastic experience. Sitting down with a spreadsheet I figured I could afford one cruise with Silversea to 2 with Aurora. No prizes for guessing where the future lies...

That’s very interesting Clodia. Silversea most definitely appeals, but we are restricted to round trip cruises from the UK and I don’t know what their accessible cabin facilities are like (my wife is a full time wheelchair user). Friends of ours are going on a cruise with them later this year, as well as a cruise on Cunard, and as they have been on a number of P&O cruises we will be really interested to hear their feedback on the comparisons with P&O. We are happy to pay more for a more upmarket experience than P&O offers, but our limitations have kept us to P&O so far. We have nothing booked with P&O beyond this summer (the first time in years that we haven’t had a number of P&O cruises booked over the following 2 years).

[Britboys]

On 1/27/2020 at 7:38 PM, AndyMichelle said:

Something else to bear in mind is the vast differences between the ships in the P&O fleet. 

If you went on Aurora and expected Butlins, you would be bitterly disappointed. 

My hope would be that the brand actively splits and Aurora etc remain and improves as the quaint, slightly classier, more formal ships and the big new beauties cater for the passengers who want that type of thing. 

Andy 

This is something I have long been an advocate for Andy.  The more time goes on, the more P&O are trying to be all things to all Pax - which is not easy to do.  I think there would be a lot of happy pax if they remained one company but operated two styles of ship  - P&O Classic for Aurora & Arcadia and P&O Contemporary for the rest of the fleet.

[wowzz]

4 minutes ago, Britboys said:

This is something I have long been an advocate for Andy.  The more time goes on, the more P&O are trying to be all things to all Pax - which is not easy to do.  I think there would be a lot of happy pax if they remained one company but operated two styles of ship  - P&O Classic for Aurora & Arcadia and P&O Contemporary for the rest of the fleet.

Do you not think Oceana would be a classic ship as well, given her size?

[Britboys]

On 1/30/2020 at 9:47 AM, Selbourne said:

To revert to the original issue - is P&O becoming ‘Butlins on Sea’? A few comments;...
 

...Our first P&O cruise was in 1996 on Oriana, during her second year in service....

...Lots of posters comment on how the passenger profile has changed and yes that is true, but we find that it varies enormously by ship. When we cruise on the big P&O resort ships, the passenger profile nowadays covers all demographic types and, yes, includes a proportion of people that we wouldn’t choose to holiday with (just as they wouldn’t with us)...  

 

...it is still possible to have a good experience with P&O if you choose the right ship, itinerary, time of year etc...

 

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/news/pos-paul-ludlow-on-iona-cruises-growth-and-gary-barlow-21022

Thank you for your usual considered and excellent response - and for the link too.

Your post has confirmed what I have thought for some time regarding the differences between the likes of Aurora & Arcadia vs the larger ships.  Your experiences mirror mine - albeit I have only sailed on a larger ship twice - and mean that I only consider Aurora & Arcadia as I know I enjoy the style of cruise they currently offer.

 

Paul Ludlow's comments also confirm exactly what I have thought about the direction the company is heading, with "Saturday Night ITV" being a really good summing up.  Like many on here, I almost never watch anything on ITV on Saturday night as none of it appeals to me.

His interview was obviously aiming at selling P&O to the 'new audience'.  There is mention of also being able to fill the other ships - not just Iona 1 & 2.  I do hope that Aurora and Arcadia do not become 'Saturday Night ITV', as should they do this, I too will also be jumping ship after nearly 25 years of loyalty to P&O.  Assuming my budget doesn't increase significantly, I am likely to move over to Fred Olsen & CMV.  I would very happily sail with Saga but whilst it is quite good value, it is still significantly more than P&O for a solo traveller.

[Britboys]

29 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Do you not think Oceana would be a classic ship as well, given her size?

She certainly could be but she has always been considered to have a 'less formal' feel to her from most of those I know who have sailed on her and she has perhaps gained a slightly different loyal passenger base due to her being used for fly-cruises.

In addition to this, I still have a feeling that she will leave the fleet by 2022 when Iona 2 comes along.

[Britboys]

On 1/30/2020 at 3:03 PM, Selbourne said:

Thank you wowzz. That’s very interesting and I shall request a brochure with an open mind. Out of interest, how does their food and entertainment compare to P&O? 

It is about 5 years since I sailed on the lovely old Saga Ruby but at that time I found the food to be of significantly higher quality than P&O.  The entertainment was 'laid back' in comparison to P&O but again of exceptional quality.  Their new ships are of course bigger than previously so I expect the entertainment will be ramped up a bit.  As far as I know, there are no cover charges for any of the restaurants.

I am going on a ship visit to Spirit of Discover on the 12th, so if you have any questions, I'll see if I can answer them after I have been on it.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Britboys
addition

[groovechick]

I haven't read through all of this thread, so this question might have been addressed already, but do you think that prices on Aurora are increasing because P&O see her as the ship that attracts the more traditional, frequently retired cruisers with high disposable income, whereas the new ships are the equivalent of "stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap"?

I would be disappointed if Aurora were to become unaffordable for us as she's my favourite. I didn't like Britannia so doubt I would like Iona,  and I enjoy the formal nights as I never get to put on the full glam day to day. Where do people see Azura and Ventura fitting into this? I quite liked Azura, never been on Ventura.

I do wish people would not get so hung up on the Butlins at sea issue and just take people as they find them.  We have met some quite unpleasant and uncouth "traditional" cruisers and, as I think I may have mentioned before, on our penultimate cruise we met an extended family at whom many would have looked askance - tats, piercings, unusual haircuts, didn't bother with formal nights, but respected the rules about which areas you could use)  - and were the nicest, kindest, most generous, fun, intelligent company and whose young children had impeccable manners.  

[AndyMichelle]

1 hour ago, Britboys said:

She certainly could be but she has always been considered to have a 'less formal' feel to her from most of those I know who have sailed on her and she has perhaps gained a slightly different loyal passenger base due to her being used for fly-cruises.

In addition to this, I still have a feeling that she will leave the fleet by 2022 when Iona 2 comes along.

Not so sure Oceana will be going that soon, she has a refit coming up. 

Although similar age, Aurora and Oceana have completely different feels. 

I much prefer Aurora. 

Andy 

Edited February 1, 2020 by AndyMichelle

[Britboys]

11 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Not so sure Oceana will be going that soon, she has a refit coming up. 

Although similar age, Aurora and Oceana have completely different feels. 

I much prefer Aurora. 

Andy 

I don't think her refurb will be major in October Andy. Possibly significant work on Cafe Jardin to change it to a Glass House maybe?  Other than that I reckon it will be a general wash & brush up plus any technical work that needs doing.  I don't think that would preclude her being sold in 2022.  I don't have any 'inside knowledge' but feel she is likely to be the next to go.

[Josy1953]

14 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Not so sure Oceana will be going that soon, she has a refit coming up. 

Although similar age, Aurora and Oceana have completely different feels. 

I much prefer Aurora. 

Andy 

I hope that you are right Andy.  Aurora is my favourite ship with Oceana close second which is why I was overjoyed when Oceana was bought back to Southampton for the winter, already planning what clothes to take in 3 weeks time.

[AndyMichelle]

1 minute ago, Britboys said:

I don't think her refurb will be major in October Andy. Possibly significant work on Cafe Jardin to change it to a Glass House maybe?  Other than that I reckon it will be a general wash & brush up plus any technical work that needs doing.  I don't think that would preclude her being sold in 2022.  I don't have any 'inside knowledge' but feel she is likely to be the next to go.

Totally agree that she will be the next to go, but can't see them spending any money for an 18 month(ish) life span.

She is not in a terrible state, so the wash and brush up doesn't really seem that necessary but I have no idea what technically might be required. 

Andy 

[Presto2]

5 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

I hope that you are right Andy.  Aurora is my favourite ship with Oceana close second which is why I was overjoyed when Oceana was bought back to Southampton for the winter, already planning what clothes to take in 3 weeks time.

 

😞

 

We'll be very sad if Oceana goes as we went on our first proper cruise on her. We are due to sail on her in August 2020, thinking that we should make the most of her while we have the chance. 

 

Ironically, we had a wonderful cruise on Azura last April and loved the ship, so it is a good exchange that Azura will go to the Med. in 2021 and have already booked for a week at Easter

[AndyMichelle]

5 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

I hope that you are right Andy.  Aurora is my favourite ship with Oceana close second which is why I was overjoyed when Oceana was bought back to Southampton for the winter, already planning what clothes to take in 3 weeks time.

We are torn here. We both really like Aurora but I am not a big fan of Oceana but Michelle loves her. 

I think it is the lack of a Crows Nest type venue which I don't like, everything seems on top of each other. 

We still enjoyed sailing on her though but, that said, we have never had a bad cruise.

Have a great time, 

Andy 

[Clodia]

5 hours ago, Selbourne said:

That’s very interesting Clodia. Silversea most definitely appeals, but we are restricted to round trip cruises from the UK and I don’t know what their accessible cabin facilities are like (my wife is a full time wheelchair user). Friends of ours are going on a cruise with them later this year, as well as a cruise on Cunard, and as they have been on a number of P&O cruises we will be really interested to hear their feedback on the comparisons with P&O. We are happy to pay more for a more upmarket experience than P&O offers, but our limitations have kept us to P&O so far. We have nothing booked with P&O beyond this summer (the first time in years that we haven’t had a number of P&O cruises booked over the following 2 years).

Silversea are going to start using Southampton for some cruises from 2021. I have booked a round trip one for Autumn 2021 while I was onboard last month. It cost slightly more than double the amount a similar cruise would have cost me as a solo on Aurora. Single supplements vary but off season (this wasn't, being September) they can be as low as 10%. They told me that they are keen to appeal to solos who find P and O too downmarket these days. You have to consider of course the zero bill at the end, unless a particular shore excuraion really appeals. All drinks both in your cabin and at the open bars are included, as are tips, decent wifi and most Speciality restaurant bookings.