Britain's biggest cruise operator is becoming 'Butlins on Sea', Which? survey finds (today's Telegraph)

[Windsurfboy]

My wife wouldn't rant and rave but would be disappointed at no flannel. Getting rid of flannels is Premier inn service, not 4 star hotel, or if you are in a suite the 5 star service you expect.

 

If there is no flannel in suite we will let "hotel manager" , know how we feel

[KnowTheScore]

Coming to this topic 12 pages in . .  .

 

Yes I too very much regret the negative impact Carnival has had to the previously string brand of P&O Cruises.

 

I have written extensively to P&O about it to complain at the seeming never-ending stream of cuts they make and the deterioration of standards, quality of food, and formality aboard.  Those of us who have cruised with P&O for years are all too aware of the pecking away that has been going on by Carnival.  Newer cruisers probably won't appreciate the plethora of things that we no longer get.    By themselves, no single one of the many cutbacks that have been made are showstoppers but COLLECTIVELY they are massive and whilst the OP here likens it to "Butlins at sea" (which I totally sympathise with) I personally like to refer to is as nothing more than going to my local Weatherspoons pub.

 

Cruising with P&O used to be a real experience, cabins were special, had a special feel about them, evening meals were refined and with a good degree of formality and lest anyone is confused by that term let me make it absolutely clear, I don't mean stuffiness or pompous formality, I simply mean that evenings saw people make significant effort to be dressy to make each evening a "special occasion" rather than it be just like going to your local pub.   Since then Carnival abolished the "Informal" dress code level and left us with Smart Casual and black tie nights.   Smart Casual has inevitably just become casual with many people not making any effort at all and formal nights are a complete joke soured by young females dressed like slappers in dresses that just cover their behinds and platform "porn" shoes and the like.  It's honesty a complete joke.

 

There are so many things no longer present that you used to get which have dumbed down the overall cruise experience.

Again, none by themselves a showstopper but collectively just a complete mess imho.   Some examples are warranted.

 

In Cabins

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Harry Peterson]

I suppose Carnival have done with P&O what Sports Direct have done with Slazenger, Kangol,  Karrimor, Muddyfox etc  - cheapened them while keeping the brand names to maintain the illusion of quality. 

 

It's a clever trick if you can pull it off, but it does lead to complaints like the ones here when you take things so far that the original brand values are so watered down as to become meaningless. 

[KnowTheScore]

9 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I suppose Carnival have done with P&O what Sports Direct have done with Slazenger, Kangol,  Karrimor, Muddyfox etc  - cheapened them while keeping the brand names to maintain the illusion of quality. 

 

It's a clever trick if you can pull it off, but it does lead to complaints like the ones here when you take things so far that the original brand values are so watered down as to become meaningless. 

 

Yes I believe you are correct Harry.

 

This all for me began when Ventura first joined the fleet and quickly gained the reputation of being a total "chav" ship.

Rules didn't seem to apply there and kids simply ran riot unchecked.  We saw kids racing around the atrium on all 3 levels playing "tiggy" right in front of reception desk and no-one did anything about it.   We had kids running down cabin corridors and shouting at past 1.00 in the morning and plenty of other undesirable things.  We never now cruise with Ventura during kids season.   The problem for me has been this dilution of the brand.   You see you simply can not have one ship being a "chav" ship or equivalent pandering to a specific "cheap seats" market and hope to keep the rest of the fleet intact.  What happens is Ventura cruisers ultimately pick a cruise on another ship like Aurora because of the itinerary and time of sailing and they fully expect that the rules and experience will be the same.  Pretty soon you have diluted the entire fleet.   Then they dumbed down the dress code for dining, most regrettable for me personally but that's where Carnival want to go so it's up to me to find an alternative cruise line that meets my expectations.   And so it goes on.   What was, is no longer, simple fact of life.

 

We have stuck with P&O for a long time through thick and thin and tried to endure cutback after cutback after cutback but it's just gone too far now.   Enough is enough.  I don't want an "Ocean Village" / Butlins style cruise.   I want a decent semi-formal relaxing cruise with refined evening meals and conversation and like-minded people.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by KnowTheScore

[Britboys]

You could try Cunard. They are not quite what they used to be either but in my experience have generally higher standards than P&O and better quality food.  They are not as 'child-friendly' as P&O and have regular sailings out of Southampton.

 

I'm afraid I stand by my comment about prices.  I'm not talking about recent fluctuation but long-term.  As I said, we paid £1300 each in 1997 for 14 nights - its precious little more than that now.

 

Personally, I do feel that the general atmosphere and standards are better on P&O's smaller ships.  I have enjoyed my last few cruises aboard Oriana & Aurora but found the two I have had on Azura were very different indeed and will not consider any more cruises on Azura/Ventura and am not even thinking about Iona...

[Harry Peterson]

19 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

........ I don't want an "Ocean Village" / Butlins style cruise.   I want a decent semi-formal relaxing cruise with refined evening meals and conversation and like-minded people........

 

 

 

 

Me too.  And it’s the like-minded people, and intelligent conversation, that I miss the most, along with the educational talks on a variety of topics that have also disappeared.

 

Still, there’s always the Bingo, the fruit machines, the bedmaking competitions and the 70s entertainment, isn’t there?  Butlins?  What an odd comparison! 🤔

[Britboys]

3 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Me too.  And it’s the like-minded people, and intelligent conversation, that I miss the most, along with the educational talks on a variety of topics that have also disappeared.

 

Still, there’s always the Bingo, the fruit machines, the bedmaking competitions and the 70s entertainment, isn’t there?  Butlins?  What an odd comparison! 🤔

Have you tried Cunard Harry?

[Denarius]

2 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

My wife wouldn't rant and rave but would be disappointed at no flannel. Getting rid of flannels is Premier inn service, not 4 star hotel, or if you are in a suite the 5 star service you expect.

 

If there is no flannel in suite we will let "hotel manager" , know how we feel

If you ask your steward for a face flannel he will provide one, and replace it as necessary throughout the cruise.

[Harry Peterson]

13 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Have you tried Cunard Harry?

I haven't, Andrew.  I hear very mixed reports, quite a few of which suggest it's not that much better, except perhaps in the Grills.

 

Is it better?

[KnowTheScore]

10 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I haven't, Andrew.  I hear very mixed reports, quite a few of which suggest it's not that much better, except perhaps in the Grills.

 

Is it better?

 

I have heard the same.   Some say food is actually worse than P&O, at least in the lower class areas.   The whole fact that they still operate a class system is a major off-putting factor for many cruisers.   Why on earth in this day and age that still exists is a mystery to me but I guess there's a pompous market out there that enjoys the privilege of exclusivity and can afford it.   I don't know how long that can be sustained though in today's world.  It's pompous and ridiculous imho.

 

And perhaps this is a solution for Carnival overall.  If they want the P&O brand to be an Ocean Village style "easy cruise" then sort out Cunard and the longer standing tradition P&O cruises will likely flock to it provided Cunard maintain the decent levels of formality and service.

 

 

[funinhounslow]

58 minutes ago, Britboys said:

 

I'm afraid I stand by my comment about prices.  I'm not talking about recent fluctuation but long-term.  As I said, we paid £1300 each in 1997 for 14 nights - its precious little more than that now.

 

 
That would be £2400 now according to the BofE’s inflation calculator. 
 

That is a significant price cut in real terms. 
 

Surely the answer for those who resent P&O becoming a mass market brand is to “jump ship” to Cunard? Elegance and formality galore if you don’t mind them taking the mickey with the prices of drinks and excursions. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by funinhounslow

[Adawn47]

What is this  big issue about flannels? Why can't you just take your own?

[AndyMichelle]

Just now, Adawn47 said:

What is this  big issue about flannels? Why can't you just take your own?

Michelle likes a Flannel... 

As soon as we realised they were no longer available, we now take our own, but they are readily available on request. 

I think it just riles some as another cutback, despite prices dropping. 

None of the cutbacks have affected our enjoyment yet, but if they stop doing hot chocolate in the buffet, that is a deal breaker for me.... 😊

Andy 

[Harry Peterson]

Here's the guy who calls the shots with P&O these days:

 

 

Paul Ludlow, president of P&O Cruises

 

The TTG article helpfully linked to above by Selbourne (https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/news/pos-paul-ludlow-on-iona-cruises-growth-and-gary-barlow-21022) says it all, and it's worth a read.

 

“Our heartland audience is ITV Saturday night. Gary [Barlow] was top of the list for us – everyone loves him, from nine-year-olds to grandmas. Working with Gary helps us to reach new audiences”.

 

Those new audiences are needed to fill the ships, and if you like ITV on Saturday nights you'll presumably find plenty of like-minded people to discuss game shows and other ITV pap with!

[Britboys]

41 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

I have heard the same.   Some say food is actually worse than P&O, at least in the lower class areas.   The whole fact that they still operate a class system is a major off-putting factor for many cruisers.   Why on earth in this day and age that still exists is a mystery to me but I guess there's a pompous market out there that enjoys the privilege of exclusivity and can afford it.   I don't know how long that can be sustained though in today's world.  It's pompous and ridiculous imho.

 

And perhaps this is a solution for Carnival overall.  If they want the P&O brand to be an Ocean Village style "easy cruise" then sort out Cunard and the longer standing tradition P&O cruises will likely flock to it provided Cunard maintain the decent levels of formality and service.

 

 

I was last on Cunard (QE, round-Britain) a bit over three years ago and in my opinion the food was much better than recent P&O cruises at that time.

The 'Class' issue is not just with Cunard these days.  Celebrity, NCL and MSC all have similar set-ups with certain restaurants and/or lounges and/or deck areas only available to pax in certain high-grade cabins, so it is not fair to hold that up purely against Cunard any more.

Again, personally, if P&O standards decline to a level I am unhappy with, I will jump ship to Fred Olsen or CMV in the main - although would be happy to sail Cunard as long as I was not going solo (from expense point of view). 

[AndyMichelle]

1 minute ago, Harry Peterson said:

Here's the guy who calls the shots with P&O these days:

 

 

Paul Ludlow, president of P&O Cruises

 

The TTG article helpfully linked to above by Selbourne (https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/news/pos-paul-ludlow-on-iona-cruises-growth-and-gary-barlow-21022) says it all, and it's worth a read.

 

“Our heartland audience is ITV Saturday night. Gary [Barlow] was top of the list for us – everyone loves him, from nine-year-olds to grandmas. Working with Gary helps us to reach new audiences”.

 

Those new audiences are needed to fill the ships, and if you like ITV on Saturday nights you'll presumably find plenty of like-minded people to discuss game shows and other ITV pap with!

Say what you see Harry... 

Oh sorry, that's a Saturday night TV reference that you won't understand.. 😊

Andy 

[Britboys]

8 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

What is this  big issue about flannels? Why can't you just take your own?

Of course, on Cunard these will be called facecloths (UK) or washcloths (USA) 😄

[Adawn47]

I'm an old lady. It's a flannel to me 😆.

[AndyMichelle]

2 minutes ago, Britboys said:

I was last on Cunard (QE, round-Britain) a bit over three years ago and in my opinion the food was much better than recent P&O cruises at that time.

The 'Class' issue is not just with Cunard these days.  Celebrity, NCL and MSC all have similar set-ups with certain restaurants and/or lounges and/or deck areas only available to pax in certain high-grade cabins, so it is not fair to hold that up purely against Cunard any more.

Again, personally, if P&O standards decline to a level I am unhappy with, I will jump ship to Fred Olsen or CMV in the main - although would be happy to sail Cunard as long as I was not going solo (from expense point of view). 

I still feel the ships are diverse enough to look after all of us. 

I have never entered a bed making competition, or even seen one, rarely visit the pub on board as usually too noisy for me so not played bingo, entered quizzes or sang on the karaoke. 

We also haven't been to dance lessons, cookery clubs, spa days or talks about my posture/wrinkles/feet/digestion... 

Yet, despite all this choice, we still manage to have fantastic, relaxing, interesting holidays... 

Andy 

[Harry Peterson]

13 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Say what you see Harry... 

Oh sorry, that's a Saturday night TV reference that you won't understand.. 😊

Andy 

Goodness, no, Andy. Saturday night’s film (not movie) night. Always plenty to choose from on the Humax. 😊

[crompton21]

On our first cruise in 2005, we shared a table with a middle aged couple, their teenage children and the owner of a boxing gym and his pregnant teenage partner.  Good company they all were.  I have never really thought of that mix as strange but a number of recent posts on this thread are making me wonder if we went on the only cruise in the 2000's that had younger people on it. 

[Britboys]

10 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Goodness, no, Andy. Saturday night’s film (not movie) night. Always plenty to choose from on the Humax. 😊

Glad I'm not the only one who refuses to call films movies... 😄

[majortom10]

1 hour ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

I have heard the same.   Some say food is actually worse than P&O, at least in the lower class areas.   The whole fact that they still operate a class system is a major off-putting factor for many cruisers.   Why on earth in this day and age that still exists is a mystery to me but I guess there's a pompous market out there that enjoys the privilege of exclusivity and can afford it.   I don't know how long that can be sustained though in today's world.  It's pompous and ridiculous imho.

 

And perhaps this is a solution for Carnival overall.  If they want the P&O brand to be an Ocean Village style "easy cruise" then sort out Cunard and the longer standing tradition P&O cruises will likely flock to it provided Cunard maintain the decent levels of formality and service.

 

 

Most cruise lines offer some sort of "class system" these days even P&O for those that book in suites have breakfast in Epicurean. The only difference on Cunard is the higher the price and grade of cabin the better the food which is how it should be and this system has been in place for years with airlines in First class, Business and Economy so does this stop you using all airlines. Having done many cruises over last 23yrs have seen a decline in all cruise lines I have cruised with, not just P&O. Our first cruise on Cunard in 1997 cost over £100pppn for the cheapest inside cabin on QE2 and is far cheaper in comparison these days. One of our cruises on Arcadia we paid not far off £2000 for a 17 nt cruise in inside cabin so prices are cheaper today and unfortunately you cannot expect the same levels of service and food of yesteryear at todays prices something has to give.

[Harry Peterson]

11 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Most cruise lines offer some sort of "class system" these days even P&O for those that book in suites have breakfast in Epicurean. 

To be honest, that's the main thing that's stopped me from deserting P&O altogether.  Epicurean breakfasts, particularly outside, are an absolute delight.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Harry Peterson

[Adawn47]

I agree Andy. We only use the theatre or nightclub on an evening if there's something we'd like to see. Or maybe a quiet drink (or 2) in Andersons. We never bother with anything during the day, just content to read, relax and watch the sea. We do our own thing in port and have a wonderful relaxing cruise. It's  what you make it.