Corona virus causing NCL cash flow problems? ie: No more refunds. Everything is now a Future Cruise Credit (FCC)

[Regguy]

11 minutes ago, julig22 said:

I question whether or not they are actually able to hold onto port charges and taxes, since that is money essentially held in trust and is due to the ports, not NCL. I have to assume that the legal department is all over this but maybe NCL will see the error of their ways and make refunds.

I was thinking about this earlier.  I am not sure this is true with respect to port fees and certain taxes.  I think those are actually only earned by the entities upon certain events happening not upon sale of the voyage ticket.  (Sales taxes are different.)  So I am not sure the trust analogy actually works and I think there is some precedent with respect to big box travel booking suppliers who collect a “tax” charge but don’t remit until you stay.  
 

But it might be a consumer protection violation.  
 

What was the practice if you cancelled day before or no showed?  Do they always refund these amounts in cash?

 

Edit:  Here is where it gets weird.  You pay port charges and taxes but then cancel and never use your FCC or don’t use all of it.  Seems unlikely NCL could keep them.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Regguy

[kessdarln]

16 minutes ago, julig22 said:

From the "Peace of Mind" letter that was sent to TA's: 

"FCC will include all components of the reservation that have been paid, including but not limited to: shore excursions, beverage and dining packages (including associated gratuities), service charges and air or transfers pre purchased through Norwegian."

 

So if you prepaid and want a cash refund, do it before March 10.  Whether they will let you is another story.

 

I read it as cruises between March 10 and Sept were eligible for a FULL refund in the form of a future cruise.  That's why it is March 10, that gave anyone on the Mar 10 cruise the opportunity to cancel by today (48-hours)

[mnsweeps]

I cancelled earlier on Mar 6 few hours before the new policy announcement and email clearly shows refund going back to my CC.

 

3/6/2020	Payment Refund	Credit Card	AMEX	Cvv-8790	$ -150.00
3/6/2020	Payment Refund	Credit Card	VISA		$ -4,036.00

[julig22]

1 minute ago, kessdarln said:

 

I read it as cruises between March 10 and Sept were eligible for a FULL refund in the form of a future cruise.  That's why it is March 10, that gave anyone on the Mar 10 cruise the opportunity to cancel by today (48-hours)

You are correct.  But if you don't want your pre-paid expenses tied up in FCC, you have to get them off of your reservation before you cancel your cruise.  Some people have been successful - it probably depends on who you talk to.  The actual effective date of the new policy is somewhat unclear, but the feedback from people who have recently tried to cancel seems to be that it goes into effect on the 10th and you won't be able to cancel parts of your reservation after that.

[LatinaInTexas]

I also called yesterday just to ask about how cancellation works since I have no experience or knowledge about it. My cruise is 3/21. I was told the refund would be FCC. I asked did that also include everything I had paid out of pocket already besides the cruise fare. She said yes everything totally I already paid would be FCC. I asked why wouldnt the things I had paid for besides the cruise fare be put back to my credit card, since I thought that was what I had read on here will happen. She mumbled a few things I didnt quite catch then clearly said Im lucky because if I cancel now I wont have to pay a $500 fee. Still not clear about it all, seems I have some time left to make a decision about cancelling. Will just keep watching on here for updated info and see what happens next week.

[David10225]

CDC's latest advice.  Wonder if this will change anything (i.e. cause the cruise itself to be cancelled):

 

"CDC recommends travelers, particularly those with underlying health issues, defer all cruise ship travel worldwide."

 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/page/covid-19-cruise-ship

 

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by David10225

[Regguy]

7 minutes ago, David10225 said:

CDC's latest advice.  Wonder if this will change anything (i.e. cause the cruise itself to be cancelled):

 

"CDC recommends travelers, particularly those with underlying health issues, defer all cruise ship travel worldwide."

 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/page/covid-19-cruise-ship

 

 

Wow.  Fuel is cheap enough that they can sail not full but I still don’t see how they can overcome the impact of the CDC advising against cruise ships.

[David10225]

Also US State Department tonight (Sunday) with additional information (more related to international travel perhaps):

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/before-you-go/travelers-with-special-considerations/cruise-ship-passengers.html

 

"U.S. citizens, particularly travelers with underlying health conditions, should not travel by cruise ship.  CDC notes increased risk of infection of COVID-19 in a cruise ship environment. In order to curb the spread of COVID-19, many countries have implemented strict screening procedures that have denied port entry rights to ships and prevented passengers from disembarking.  In some cases, local authorities have permitted disembarkation but subjected passengers to local quarantine procedures.  While the U.S. government has evacuated some cruise ship passengers in recent weeks, repatriation flights should not be relied upon as an option for U.S. citizens under the potential risk of quarantine by local authorities. "

 

 

[kessdarln]

If we cancel, will we get the same perks when we rebook? 

[erdoran]

3 minutes ago, kessdarln said:

If we cancel, will we get the same perks when we rebook? 

No, you get whatever deal and perks are available with your new booking.

[Little Hickory Stump]

1 hour ago, LatinaInTexas said:

I also called yesterday just to ask about how cancellation works since I have no experience or knowledge about it. My cruise is 3/21. I was told the refund would be FCC. I asked did that also include everything I had paid out of pocket already besides the cruise fare. She said yes everything totally I already paid would be FCC. I asked why wouldnt the things I had paid for besides the cruise fare be put back to my credit card, since I thought that was what I had read on here will happen. She mumbled a few things I didnt quite catch then clearly said Im lucky because if I cancel now I wont have to pay a $500 fee. Still not clear about it all, seems I have some time left to make a decision about cancelling. Will just keep watching on here for updated info and see what happens next week.

 

We are not sure if we will cancel or not for our 3/16 Gem cruise. I called an canceled our soda and SDP today just in case.. they refunded my credit card for the full price. This way if we do cancel it won't be rolled into a FCC. We can always add them back on if we decide to go on the cruise.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Little Hickory Stump

[chris1]

I think it’s great that they are offering the option of a FCC.  I would however love to see a refund option too.  We’re $5k into a cruise we won’t go on right now.  We will certainly use it next year of course.  The caveat with all this however, I that if things get bad, and I mean really bad for the cruise industry and in this case Norwegian, and they declare bankruptcy....do you know what will happen to all of those outstanding FCC’s? That’s right, they will sink to the bottom of the ocean never to be seen again.  If you can get a refund, get it.  Otherwise use that credit as soon as feasible.  

[fstuff1]

2 hours ago, David10225 said:

CDC's latest advice.  Wonder if this will change anything (i.e. cause the cruise itself to be cancelled):

 

"CDC recommends travelers, particularly those with underlying health issues, defer all cruise ship travel worldwide."

 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/page/covid-19-cruise-ship

 

wow.. did the cruise lines know about this when they met with VP Pence yesterday?

[luv2kroooz]

33 minutes ago, chris1 said:

I think it’s great that they are offering the option of a FCC.  I would however love to see a refund option too

I would like to see a refund option for port fees and prepaid beverage charges. I already have a Peace of Mind policy; it's called Cancel for Any Reason insurance, and I paid extra for it so I could get a cash refund. I don't require anything from NCL but a cash refund of my port charges and prepaid beverage charges consistent with the policies that were in place at the time I booked my cruise.

Edited March 8, 2020 by blcruising

[kessdarln]

13 minutes ago, blcruising said:

I would like to see a refund option for port fees and prepaid beverage charges. I already have a Peace of Mind policy; it's called Cancel for Any Reason insurance, and I paid extra for it so I could get a cash refund. I don't require anything from NCL but a cash refund of my port charges and prepaid beverage charges consistent with the policies that were in place at the time I booked my cruise.

I just got refunded for my tips, prepaid, water package, internet package on a 14-day , somewhere around $711.  I will call again on 3/10 to have my cruise cancelled (FCC)

[graphicguy]

17 hours ago, Buford T Justiice said:

Cash flow is always a concern when evaluating capital intensive businesses. Here's NCLH's Cash Flow for prior periods :

 

Free Cash Flow

2019 - 185,435,000            

2018 508,375,000

2017 213,527,000

 

I’m betting RCCL, Carnival, etc looks similarly.

[snorklinbarb]

Does anyone know what happens to the CN vouchers used on a cruise one can cancel for FCC?  Redeposit into latitudes a/c?  

[kessdarln]

5 minutes ago, snorklinbarb said:

Does anyone know what happens to the CN vouchers used on a cruise one can cancel for FCC?  Redeposit into latitudes a/c?  

I asked when I cancelled my add-ons.  She said I'll be able to use it on the next cruise (although it expired 2 years ago) so we'll see once I get cancelled tomorrow.  <sigh>  

[sammee]

I'm holding on to keeping my cruise for next Sunday on the Bliss. I'm not cancelling unless my husband gets the rug pulled out from under him at work. My problem is my cruise is casino (MyVegas) comped. I paid the $280 admin fees, plus all the taxes, adds on, tips plus some OBC so I wouldn't worry about a thing. Now if they gave me a FCC on all this, am I now minus a cruise? Did the admin fees go down the toilet? So I'm just crossing my fingers this cruise goes off and trying not to think  about this "what if" but it's hard not to.

[fstuff1]

37 minutes ago, sammee said:

 My problem is my cruise is casino (MyVegas) comped. I paid the $280 admin fees, plus all the taxes, adds on, tips plus some OBC so I wouldn't worry about a thing. Now if they gave me a FCC on all this, am I now minus a cruise?

wow.. how many myvegas points id it cost you?

and how many days is the cruise?

[sammee]

52 minutes ago, fstuff1 said:

wow.. how many myvegas points id it cost you?

and how many days is the cruise?

It was 800,000 for an interior 1,000,000 for an OV. I had 3million beforehand. 7 days on the Bliss out of NYC 3/1 or 3/15. I chose 3/15. 

[LMaxwell]

On 3/8/2020 at 11:40 AM, forgotmyCCname said:

I personally do not appreciate the fact that I no longer have the option of a refund on my down payment towards cruise fare if I cancel within the previous deadlines, but we all accept their "rules" when we make that deposit . 

 

The Florida Attorney General Office is going to have a FIELD DAY with this.  

 

Companies may make temporary policies that benefit a customer; they can not apply policies that provide LESS to a customer than what was on contract day they put a deposit down.  Can they change entertainment, ports, etc.?  Yes.  What they can not do is materially change the terms of the DEPOSIT being forfeit for people that booked under the long standing T&C's.  

 

An FCC is not the same as a cash refund.  If NCL tried to argue that an FCC is just as good as a cash refund...then they should be willing to provide cash. 

[julig22]

34 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

The Florida Attorney General Office is going to have a FIELD DAY with this.  

 

Companies may make temporary policies that benefit a customer; they can not apply policies that provide LESS to a customer than what was on contract day they put a deposit down.  Can they change entertainment, ports, etc.?  Yes.  What they can not do is materially change the terms of the DEPOSIT being forfeit for people that booked under the long standing T&C's.  

 

An FCC is not the same as a cash refund.  If NCL tried to argue that an FCC is just as good as a cash refund...then they should be willing to provide cash. 

That is what I have been saying ever since the new policy came out, as it applies to deposits and any pre-paid expenses paid before final pay.  I think it would also apply to pre-paid amounts made after final payment, since in the past you could get those back - but I don't know how the actual cancellation policy was worded.

So from a contractual aspect you should have the choice of taking the new policy if you think it is better in your situation.  If you are in the penalty phase, you should be able to take the penalty or the FCC.  If you bought insurance, you are under the terms of the insurance, again if that is to your benefit.  They also have the right to withdraw any policy changes put into place after your initial booking.

I also think they may have a problem turning the port taxes into FCC - you can't keep taxes if you aren't providing whatever is being taxed.

I would suspect that the argument from NCL is that FCC is better than cash, not the same as - and for some without insurance and in the penalty period, it might be.

[LMaxwell]

1 hour ago, julig22 said:

 

I would suspect that the argument from NCL is that FCC is better than cash, not the same as - and for some without insurance and in the penalty period, it might be.

 

The FCC is better pretty much only in the case of penalty phase for those without insurance like you said.  But for many people they purchase 3rd party insurance when they reach the first "penalty" phase, generally at final payment at 90-120 days out.  

 

So now if someone has a cruise a year from now and isn't vigilantly checking and decides to cancel months and months in advance, no refund.  I stand by that terms and conditions can not be retroactively modified to this disadvantage of the purchaser.  Usually reserving the right to modify terms means they no longer have to offer the current terms for new bookings, but may offer new terms the client can then choose to accept or not. 

 

As for taxes; those are supposed to be a pass through to various government agencies.  If the services are not rendered I don't see a basis for also keeping the tax money and offering a gift card. 

 

It's simple.  This is theft by deception and they are going to get sued in short order I am certain. 

[erdoran]

Here’s a scary thought - how long will they offer FCC?  Remember the 90 day cancellation/refund window?  That lasted 2 days I believe.  If you didn’t grab it when first offered, poof!