Whats happening? SB refunds and payments Covid19

[zelker]

5 hours ago, SLSD said:

I am assuming that no one spends money on a Seabourn cruise using money they cannot afford to lose. 

 

I'm sorry but WHAT????  😲  You're assuming that my husband and I book cruises using money we can afford to lose??!!??  You're not serious, are you?  Maybe YOU can afford to throw that kind of money away, but when we spend this kind of money for a product or service, it's not because we can afford to throw it away if we don't get the product or service. 

 

Your comment just blindsided me.  Wow. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by zelker

[zimflyer]

42 minutes ago, JP1320 said:

Perhaps I should have clarified that we are, like so many other cruisers, subject to a waiting period for our refund, and a sizeable one at that, hence the reason for my post. However, that, IMHO, is of a secondary nature given the current dilemma throughout the world with this virus.

 

Your reference that this forum is only about our refunds is somewhat redundant, as the base subject goes off on many tangents, from publications about the fortunes of not only Carnival, the parent company to other worldly cruise lines and their rational. We have all, possibly, been advised by our TA's or Seabourn directly that the rule of thumb is between 60 - 90 days. In fact my only prior post on this subject of refunds was to advise that my own personal TA had advised me accordingly, which did appear to set of some alarms.

 

As I made comment, would you like to have the chance to be in any of those affected shoes, hospitalized, nursing homes or on just a plain old steel gurney in a morgue. You cannot take money with you when we go and for sure there are no pockets in a shroud. Incidentally, the use of the word 'cool' in a sentence concerning a global epidemic is a poor taste of vocabulary.

By your final statement above  I am sure you feel most justified in your response above... you are very quick to attack. (vis. Your earlier reply to a poster (who offered a WSJ link)  regarding subscription marketing). 

 

I was merely pointing out the reason for this topic being started.

 

The topic may well include the financial health or otherwise of CCL, as it has. For goodness sake, SB has left a lot of us hanging....

 

You may be in a position to throw it away because its a pandemic and if we can't take it with us, should we just leave it for SB ????

 

OTHERS may find $40k a trifling amount of money...

 

YOU are FULLY ENTITLED to your views, just dont get upset when some disagree.

 

I will rephrase for you:

It may not be politically correct to wonder about our refunds during the pandemic, however the topic here IS refunds and not an ethics , affordability or  vocabulary class.

 

Mostly, we just want to know what is happening, be informed, and through posts here, to try and find out if this is under way....

[ON cruiser]

Zimflyer & Zelker (the "two z's"); I'm with you both! In a nerve-racking game of chicken, Seabourn finally cancelled our May Alaska cruise that was, for well over a month prior, clearly not going to go (the Canadian ban on ships, the Alaska quarantine). I can ill-afford to lose the approximately $16 grand that this holiday cost; nor should any consumer be expected to subsidize any corporate entity in this fashion. While I applaud those for whom $16 grand or $40 grand is like $16 or $40, I am not in that snack-bracket and prefer to keep my money when the promised product can no longer be delivered.

 

This thread is indeed about the status of refunds, FCC, etc. No doubt everyone is concerned about the virus--but conflating that with the topic at hand in my view sets up a false equivalency. Yes, yes, we are lucky to be alive, etc. But that has in my view nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

As I have noted on the HAL board, it is wise to check with your credit card issuer, assuming you paid for your cruise via credit card, to ensure you are within the timelines set by your credit card issuer, should you want to commence a formal dispute. Disputing a charge with your credit card issuer should be a no-cost and low risk option to make you financially whole. You have nothing to lose (but some waiting time on hold) by calling to explore this.

 

While I have not made a formal complaint/dispute yet, I have "book-marked" the matter with my credit card issuer. They have excluded the Seabourn charge from my current payable--luckily, interest-free--until my June statement. At that time, if Seabourn has not processed a refund, either the credit card issuer will extend the time somewhat, or a formal dispute will commence. By making these inquiries, I have lost exactly nothing.   

 

I wish all good luck and good health.

[MightyQuinn]

8 hours ago, SLSD said:

I am assuming that no one spends money on a Seabourn cruise using money they cannot afford to lose.

 

Surely you don't think booking a Seabourn cruise is a gamble akin to betting in Vegas with money you can afford to lose?

[Paulchili]

5 hours ago, JP1320 said:

Arison will not pull the plug, Micky has been around the block a few too many times in his lifetime to surrender. They are the largest for a reason,

That doesn't mean that he will pay you or me, does it?

[ab21au]

8 hours ago, zelker said:

You're assuming that my husband and I book cruises using money we can afford to lose??!!??  You're not serious, are you?

I don’t think that is what is meant. I don’t think that anyone wants to lose money, I certainly don’t but I won’t be begging for my next dollar if I do. 
 

I felt so sorry for the thousands I saw at the Overseas Terminal in Sydney lined up to board the Ruby Princess on the 8th March, who were there, what appeared to me and from what I saw in news interviews, because they had saved for a long time for the “cruise of a lifetime” and could not afford to lose the money.

[Rambo_Trout]

14 hours ago, SLSD said:

I tend to agree with you Joe.  I am assuming that no one spends money on a Seabourn cruise using money they cannot afford to lose.  I still remain hopeful that everyone will get a refund, but  may have to wait a while.  

 

I am sure that I am not the only one offended by your careless choice of words.

 

You may lose money on Stocks & Shares, or in a casino, they are a gamble, and I agree, that money should be money that you can afford to lose.

 

But investing in a nice motor car, boat, or expensive cruise should not be a gamble. They should come with great customer service and guarantees.

 

Many people can afford to lose that amount of money, (however much it is) but it should be on something that carries a huge risk (Carnival Shares?), but not well-earned pleasures like cruising.

 

Sir Alan Sugar (Donald Trump for that matter) can afford to lose large amounts of money, but I am sure that they too would be very upset if they lost it on a Seabourn Cruise!

 

BTW: Today is Day 62 since WE cancelled our cruise (Day 50 since Seabourn Cancelled), and no sign of a Refund yet. Our Magic Date is the 9th of May. Seabourn told our Travel Agent that we should receive our refund before then and only to contact them after 9th May, if we have not received it. 😷🤞💷

Edited April 29, 2020 by Rambo_Trout
Insert missing word.

[JP1320]

8 hours ago, zimflyer said:

By your final statement above  I am sure you feel most justified in your response above... you are very quick to attack. (vis. Your earlier reply to a poster (who offered a WSJ link)  regarding subscription marketing). 

 

I was merely pointing out the reason for this topic being started.

 

The topic may well include the financial health or otherwise of CCL, as it has. For goodness sake, SB has left a lot of us hanging....

 

You may be in a position to throw it away because its a pandemic and if we can't take it with us, should we just leave it for SB ????

 

OTHERS may find $40k a trifling amount of money...

 

YOU are FULLY ENTITLED to your views, just dont get upset when some disagree.

 

I will rephrase for you:

It may not be politically correct to wonder about our refunds during the pandemic, however the topic here IS refunds and not an ethics , affordability or  vocabulary class.

 

Mostly, we just want to know what is happening, be informed, and through posts here, to try and find out if this is under way....

 

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/canceled-cruise-refund-how-long/

 

Perhaps this take might shed some light on the total cruise industry dilemma, not just Seabourn. Hope you receive your refund within the anticipated time frame.

[Rambo_Trout]

15 minutes ago, JP1320 said:

 

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/canceled-cruise-refund-how-long/

 

Perhaps this take might shed some light on the total cruise industry dilemma, not just Seabourn. Hope you receive your refund within the anticipated time frame.

 

Thanks JP1320, very informative and it does look as if we may get refunds, in the end.

[SLSD]

9 hours ago, zelker said:

 

I'm sorry but WHAT????  😲  You're assuming that my husband and I book cruises using money we can afford to lose??!!??  You're not serious, are you?  Maybe YOU can afford to throw that kind of money away, but when we spend this kind of money for a product or service, it's not because we can afford to throw it away if we don't get the product or service. 

 

Your comment just blindsided me.  Wow. 

I'm sorry, but you misinterpreted my comment.  No one wants to lose money--and SB owes the refunds.  My point is that no one is going to go without food, shelter, medical care waiting for the refund.  That's all.  

[SLSD]

1 hour ago, Rambo_Trout said:

 

I am sure that I am not the only one offended by your careless choice of words.

💷

See my comment above.  Perhaps I did not fully explain what I was trying (obviously poorly) to say.  It would have been better to say something like:  It is terrible to have to wait so long for refunds.  Thank goodness no one will go without shelter, food, or medical care without these funds.  I guess I was thinking of all of those who have lost their jobs and are worried about paying their mortgage or their rent---or putting food on the table for their families.  Next time I make a comment, I will try to more fully explain what I am thinking.  

[SLSD]

7 hours ago, MightyQuinn said:

 

Surely you don't think booking a Seabourn cruise is a gamble akin to betting in Vegas with money you can afford to lose?

Of course I don't think that.  I didn't fully explain what I was thinking---that while you wait for your refund (which hopefully will someday arrive) you are not worrying about food, shelter or medical care as the funds for your cruise were earmarked for leisure travel--are were not the essential funds you need to live day to day.  

[Reef Knot]

After reading that link from JP1320  I'm now slightly more worried.

" Cruise giant Carnival alone says it has been working on getting money back to more than 1 million people."

 

What would be the average spend per pax across the Carnival brand? $2/3000 (equates to 2-3 billion dollars in cash refunds)

Thats a lot of cash to find in these times.

Hopefully I'm way of the mark on the average spend and someone will correct/reassure me

[Rambo_Trout]

23 minutes ago, SLSD said:

See my comment above.  Perhaps I did not fully explain what I was trying (obviously poorly) to say.  It would have been better to say something like:  It is terrible to have to wait so long for refunds.  Thank goodness no one will go without shelter, food, or medical care without these funds.  I guess I was thinking of all of those who have lost their jobs and are worried about paying their mortgage or their rent---or putting food on the table for their families.  Next time I make a comment, I will try to more fully explain what I am thinking.  

 

Hopefully COVID-19 will soon become a distant memory, we will all have access to a reliable vaccine, and our Refunds will all arrive (but not in that order!).

[Isklaar]

55 minutes ago, SLSD said:

Of course I don't think that.  I didn't fully explain what I was thinking---that while you wait for your refund (which hopefully will someday arrive) you are not worrying about food, shelter or medical care as the funds for your cruise were earmarked for leisure travel--are were not the essential funds you need to live day to day.  

 

 

SLSD, sometimes our posts here do not come across in the way we intend them, or we don't fully explain our train of thought. It happens to us all.

I think of you as a thoughtful and considerate poster and although I was somewhat taken aback when I read your comment  I made the assumption that how I read it was certainly not how it was meant when you typed it.

[zelker]

1 hour ago, SLSD said:

I'm sorry, but you misinterpreted my comment.  No one wants to lose money--and SB owes the refunds.  My point is that no one is going to go without food, shelter, medical care waiting for the refund.  That's all.  

 

No, I did NOT misinterpret what you wrote.  And now this comment presumes to know that no one waiting for a refund is going to go without food, shelter, etc. when in fact you have no way to know what any of us are dealing with financially. 

 

Would appreciate it if you'd keep your comments about finances to yourself from now on.

[Isklaar]

2 hours ago, Rambo_Trout said:

 

 

 

BTW: Today is Day 62 since WE cancelled our cruise (Day 50 since Seabourn Cancelled), and no sign of a Refund yet. Our Magic Date is the 9th of May. Seabourn told our Travel Agent that we should receive our refund before then and only to contact them after 9th May, if we have not received it. 😷🤞💷

 

Rambo_Trout, please keep us updated with regard to the progress of your refund. I'm very keen to know how well our mutual TA is able to deal with SB on this issue! 

[Rambo_Trout]

1 minute ago, Isklaar said:

 

Rambo_Trout, please keep us updated with regard to the progress of your refund. I'm very keen to know how well our mutual TA is able to deal with SB on this issue! 

 

I shall do. I may even open a bottle of something sparkling when we do receive it, prior to posting. 🍾💷

[SLSD]

48 minutes ago, zelker said:

 

No, I did NOT misinterpret what you wrote.  And now this comment presumes to know that no one waiting for a refund is going to go without food, shelter, etc. when in fact you have no way to know what any of us are dealing with financially. 

 

Would appreciate it if you'd keep your comments about finances to yourself from now on.

Wow.  No need to be ugly in this forum.  

[SLSD]

50 minutes ago, Isklaar said:

 

 

SLSD, sometimes our posts here do not come across in the way we intend them, or we don't fully explain our train of thought. It happens to us all.

I think of you as a thoughtful and considerate poster and although I was somewhat taken aback when I read your comment  I made the assumption that how I read it was certainly not how it was meant when you typed it.

Thank you Isklaar.  As I said in other posts, I've been thinking mostly about people who have lost their jobs  and who are worried about shelter and food.  I should not have made the comment, but I am taken aback at some of the ugliness on this board--and this is not the first time.  No room for a remark that might have been ill advised.  No--I do not know the circumstances of everyone here who is waiting for a refund.  I made the assumption that they are like us and money to be refunded was not immediately needed for essentials.  I realize now that I was probably mistaken in this assumption--and I do apologize.  

[zelker]

50 minutes ago, SLSD said:

Wow.  No need to be ugly in this forum.  

 

Just asking that you refrain from discussing the status of people's finances and keep to the subject matter.  Nothing ugly about that.

[ON cruiser]

6 hours ago, SLSD said:

"... No--I do not know the circumstances of everyone here who is waiting for a refund.  I made the assumption that they are like us and money to be refunded was not immediately needed for essentials.  I realize now that I was probably mistaken in this assumption--and I do apologize. " 

 

SLSD, I have always found your posts thoughtful and enjoyable. I for one accept your apology--as you now realize, people can suffer a sudden "reversal of fortune" (remember that movie?). Those who were flush enough to take a cruise could in these challenging times find themselves suddenly unemployed, or under-employed with a drastic reduction of income, coupled with shrinking investments, etc.

 

We none of us know what is going on the lives of others, except for our "immediates"--very close family and friends, and not always even then.  Best not to assume. As I used to tell those who reported to me, always remember how to parse the word, "assume".

[sfvoyage]

Wow, such nastiness and unnecessary drama!  Of course we all want our money back, and we will, but meanwhile, please do recognize that when we paid Seabourn - or any travel company for that matter - for our vacation, we were using funds that were budgeted for and spent on discretionary entertainment.  It's not as if, while waiting for our refund, we could or should have counted on that money for someone's heart transplant, college education, or mortgage payment, etc.

 

What was paid was a sunk cost towards leisure and entertainment.  While waiting for our refund, we are shortchanged a vacation, that's all, and we will be made whole at some point.

 

The argument about "reversal of fortune" is moot - most of us do not have a crystal ball to foretell the future and can only make decision with the facts at hand at a particular moment in time.  Any one of us could suffer from unexpected misfortunes such as health and employment issues at any time.  Financial advisors have always advocated that one maintain sufficient emergency funds to cover living expenses for at least 6 to 12 months, in case of catastrophic incidents.

 

(One data point:  my friend received his cancellation email from Seabourn on March 9 - only 2 or 3 days prior to his sail date - and his full refund within the same week.  Personally, I also received my cancellation email from Seabourn on March 9 for my cancelled cruise in mid-April and am still awaiting my refund.)

Edited April 29, 2020 by sfvoyage

[Rambo_Trout]

A point that I must make.

 

Although we do have savings, our lifestyle is 95% funded via renting out commercial property. If our tenants decide not to pay, citing COVID-19 as a reason, we are powerless to do anything, as the UK Government has given them protection. So, our refund could be useful.

 

Other people could be in a similar situation or business owners, with income ceasing totally.

[sfvoyage]

I could no longer continue to edit my post above, so I might add here that if our cruise were not cancelled, we would have received our "vacation" and owed no refund.  Given the our cruise was cancelled, in these challenging times, of course it would be helpful and nice if we can get our refund promptly, but the point is that it was a sunk cost, which shouldn't be counted on for our current or future expenses.  And again, we are talking about a processing delay, we are not getting robbed here.

 

The bigger picture is that most of our investment portfolios have shrunk, dividends cut or decreased... but that's a macro situation - much bigger than our refund due.  And while, sure, we are frustrated, perhaps some people are scapegoating Seabourn for a much bigger problem at hand.