New and Unfinished Ships

[jocap]

How many ships are being built at the moment? I presume the shipyards are under lock-down at the moment, especially in Italy; I know there's a finished ship, P&O's Iona, waiting to do sea trials in Germany, and isn't there a Celebrity one waiting to sail?

How many are part -built... any idea?

 

[cruisemom42]

Someone just yesterday started a thread on the MSC Seashore, being built at one of the Fincantieri yards, and whether it will be ready for scheduled launch in June 2021.

 

[CruiserBruce]

HAL is finishing a ship, Ryndam, in Spring 2021.

[chengkp75]

Here is the current cruise ship order book for all shipyards worldwide, through 2027:

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/cruise-ship-orderbook.html

 

any of the larger ships listed for delivery in 2020 can be considered as "being built" or "partially built", and right through until mid 2021.

Edited April 7, 2020 by chengkp75

[leaveitallbehind]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Here is the current cruise ship order book for all shipyards worldwide, through 2027:

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/cruise-ship-orderbook.html

 

any of the larger ships listed for delivery in 2020 can be considered as "being built" or "partially built", and right through until mid 2021.

 

Very interesting information.  Will be curious to see the impact with these plans that may result from the current situation - in particular with the longer range plans.

[rkacruiser]

13 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Here is the current cruise ship order book for all shipyards worldwide, through 2027:

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/cruise-ship-orderbook.html

 

any of the larger ships listed for delivery in 2020 can be considered as "being built" or "partially built", and right through until mid 2021.

 

Maybe out of all of the mess , the cruise companies will realistically begin to assess their business models as to being able to attract guests.  Looking at the orderbook that CIN's publishes quarterly, I have wondered how for some time:  how are they going to fill these ships?

 

We really need a 4th Cunard Queen?  What about the sudden explosion of these exploration-type ships?  And, don't forget about all of these new riverboats in European and American waters.  

 

The argument is made that there is such a small percentage of people who have cruised.  The market potential exists.  (China has been an example of that possibility.  Yet, I don't think that has been a home run for any company.)

 

Face it:  The United States is headed for a Depression of a magnitude that seems headed to exceed the 1930's if this crisis continues for weeks/months/or more.  

 

During the late 1920's and the 1930's, cruise ships did sail for those that could afford to do so.  Something like that will happen now, I believe.  Assumptions of whom the marketing needs to be directed will change.  

 

My opinion and not good news for the workers in the shipyards:  there are going to be massive changes to the cruise lines orders for new ships.    

 

 

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

What about the sudden explosion of these exploration-type ships? 

I think a lot of this is due to the backlash against the large ships in certain ports and areas, and the new restrictions on arctic areas, and I think these may have a brighter future than the large ships, in the short term.

 

9 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

(China has been an example of that possibility.  Yet, I don't think that has been a home run for any company.)

Until Carnival's Chinese flag ships (which can avail themselves of coastwise Chinese itineraries, and are truly a part of the Chinese economy) enter service, I don't think the China market will be fully exploited.

[GrJ Berkshire]

Can't see any need for new ships in the short/ medium term. Many cruise lines will do well to survive this virus crisis.

[rkacruiser]

12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 

 

Until Carnival's Chinese flag ships (which can avail themselves of coastwise Chinese itineraries, and are truly a part of the Chinese economy) enter service, I don't think the China market will be fully exploited.

 

From what I have learned, the potential Chinese cruise guest is a different type of traveler than those of us in the Western world.  Short cruises seem to be what they prefer.  (Maybe wrong, but that type of vacation periods is part of their culture, I think.)  Different ports of call near China also does not seem to be of great importance.  

 

Maybe another issue might be the number of small start-up cruise lines trying to enter the market with few, if any, succeeding.  Those start-ups would "bleed" potential guests from the "Big Boys".  Also, the marketing/selling of travel packages and cruises are significantly different than what we in the West know.

 

China has proven to be a more challenging market than CCL or RCL first thought when they entered it.     

[chengkp75]

19 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

Different ports of call near China also does not seem to be of great importance.  

 

Not sure what you mean here.  Different ports "near" China aren't important to the Chinese demographic?  Are you talking about other Chinese ports or non-Chinese ports.  Shorter cruises lend themselves to strictly coastwise cruises with strictly Chinese ports, which is what the Chinese flag Carnival ships are designed to accommodate.

[rkacruiser]

12 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Not sure what you mean here.  Different ports "near" China aren't important to the Chinese demographic?  Are you talking about other Chinese ports or non-Chinese ports.  Shorter cruises lend themselves to strictly coastwise cruises with strictly Chinese ports, which is what the Chinese flag Carnival ships are designed to accommodate.

 

What I mean are ports that would require a cruise longer than those that might be able to visit Korea and Japan.  A cruise to Singapore or Sydney, as an example,  is what I am referencing.  

 

I have no knowledge of the flags under which the Carnival ships sail from China.  I assumed that their flag status would not change just because they were sailing from Shanghai or wherever to wherever.

 

 

 

[chengkp75]

10 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

What I mean are ports that would require a cruise longer than those that might be able to visit Korea and Japan.  A cruise to Singapore or Sydney, as an example,  is what I am referencing.  

 

I have no knowledge of the flags under which the Carnival ships sail from China.  I assumed that their flag status would not change just because they were sailing from Shanghai or wherever to wherever.

 

 

 

The ships that Carnival is building in China, will be flagged in China, owned by a Chinese subsidiary, and crewed by Chinese.  Sound familiar?  Just like the US's PVSA, China has cabotage laws that restrict coastwise traffic to Chinese vessels.  This is why Carnival did this in the first place, and it will allow cruises that don't leave China.  The ships they have originally deployed to the Chinese market will go to other markets, or continue with longer Asian cruises, once the Chinese flag ships come on line.

[rkacruiser]

9 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The ships that Carnival is building in China, will be flagged in China, owned by a Chinese subsidiary, and crewed by Chinese.  Sound familiar?  Just like the US's PVSA, China has cabotage laws that restrict coastwise traffic to Chinese vessels.  This is why Carnival did this in the first place, and it will allow cruises that don't leave China.  The ships they have originally deployed to the Chinese market will go to other markets, or continue with longer Asian cruises, once the Chinese flag ships come on line.

 

Thanks for that explanation.  I knew that building would take place in China and owned by a Chinese subsidiary.  Chinese flagged or crewed?  I didn't understand that.  Would that include a Chinese Deck and Engine Staff as well?  I was not aware that China had cabotage laws.  

[chengkp75]

Just now, rkacruiser said:

 

Thanks for that explanation.  I knew that building would take place in China and owned by a Chinese subsidiary.  Chinese flagged or crewed?  I didn't understand that.  Would that include a Chinese Deck and Engine Staff as well?  I was not aware that China had cabotage laws.  

It would absolutely include a Chinese deck and engine crew, and all licensed officers, since that is what is mandated when flagging, not the hotel side.  I'm not sure what the licensing requirements are for China, whether they allow non-citizens to obtain Chinese licenses or not.  China, Japan, Russia, Brazil, Canada are the big ones with cabotage laws, but there are about 80 nations that have some form of maritime cabotage.  This is why I laugh when folks talk about the PVSA being an archaic law.