Ruby Princess police investigation

[Pushka]

1 minute ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

WHO did declare COVID19 a PHEIC (which is one step down from a Pandemic) end of January. They have only made that declaration five times in its history with illnesses that proved to be deadly though luckily not contagious enough to get to pandemic stage. Really the world should have been on alert when that announcement was made. 

And which Australia did and WHO widely criticised Australia when we closed the borders. They want to have it both ways. Declare something that serious, but not serious enough, then protect China when countries stop their borders. 

[christodan]

1 hour ago, Scromes said:

The amount of ill disclosed were similar, more with high temperatures. The inexplicable, however, is that the global pandemic situation had advanced exponentially from the 1st cruise to the 2nd yet somehow the 2nd cruise is less riskier than the 1st?!?

 

Well that's the way it works. There's a threshold and if it doesn't pass it, then it's cleared. Simple as that. Medicine is not cut and dry, but you have to draw an arbitrary line somewhere. It's like some cancer tests. Your antigen is above the threshold then you have cancer, it isn't, then you don't. But there are some people do have cancer with their antigen below the threshold and some people don't have cancer with their antigen levels above the threshold.  People need to understand that medicine is not a perfect science, especially with a new disease. 

[OzKiwiJJ]

5 minutes ago, christodan said:

 

Well that's the way it works. There's a threshold and if it doesn't pass it, then it's cleared. Simple as that. Medicine is not cut and dry, but you have to draw an arbitrary line somewhere. It's like some cancer tests. Your antigen is above the threshold then you have cancer, it isn't, then you don't. But there are some people do have cancer with their antigen below the threshold and some people don't have cancer with their antigen levels above the threshold.  People need to understand that medicine is not a perfect science, especially with a new disease. 

And that's probably fair enough with well-known illnesses like flu or even norovirus, but with Covid-19 rearing it's ugly head and passenger samples that needed to be tested to determine whether the virus was on the ship then applying the threshold rule was very stupid.

[christodan]

3 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

And that's probably fair enough with well-known illnesses like flu or even norovirus, but with Covid-19 rearing it's ugly head and passenger samples that needed to be tested to determine whether the virus was on the ship then applying the threshold rule was very stupid.

 

Yes it probably was and I am sure the people at NSW Health regret their decision.

[OzKiwiJJ]

3 minutes ago, christodan said:

 

Yes it probably was and I am sure the people at NSW Health regret their decision.

I'm sure they do, but the should just own up to making a disasterous mistake instead of trying to point the blame elsewhere. Mistakes do happen, they can someimes be fatal, but we can't turn the clock back so all we can do is learn from them.

[The_Big_M]

33 minutes ago, Pushka said:

And which Australia did and WHO widely criticised Australia when we closed the borders. They want to have it both ways. Declare something that serious, but not serious enough, then protect China when countries stop their borders. 

 

I don't recall any "wide criticism" of Australia from them. Can you point me to any?

 

They did have the view that worldwide complete travel lockdowns generally were not beneficial due to the disruption to trade that carries  protective equipment and other necessities. However, just as there are still differing views on whether schools should be open (from our Prime Minister) or closed (by a number of premiers) this is something that is looked at by tradeoffs, and not something that is definitive. Each approach has both pros and cons so they have to be weighed up.

[Pushka]

51 minutes ago, The_Big_M said:

 

I don't recall any "wide criticism" of Australia from them. Can you point me to any?

 

They did have the view that worldwide complete travel lockdowns generally were not beneficial due to the disruption to trade that carries  protective equipment and other necessities. However, just as there are still differing views on whether schools should be open (from our Prime Minister) or closed (by a number of premiers) this is something that is looked at by tradeoffs, and not something that is definitive. Each approach has both pros and cons so they have to be weighed up.

WHO said that border restrictions were not necessary. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-05/who-coronavirus-update-china-travel/11930752

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6148251573001

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Pushka

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, Pushka said:

And which Australia did and WHO widely criticised Australia when we closed the borders. They want to have it both ways. Declare something that serious, but not serious enough, then protect China when countries stop their borders. 

 

AFAIK WHO never specifically criticized Australia but they did not think all flights from China should be banned worldwide. Hindsight they would probably say differently now but at the time no one was aware just how contagious this virus was, how long the incubation period and the issue of asymptomatic people. They were basing their information on SARS thinking it would behave in a similar fashion. 

[The_Big_M]

5 hours ago, Pushka said:

WHO said that border restrictions were not necessary. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-05/who-coronavirus-update-china-travel/11930752

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6148251573001

 

 

"urging against travel bans" isn't wide criticism.

[BRANDEE]

Received our e mail from the NSW police regarding their investigation of deaths potentially linked to the Ruby Princess Cruise ship.  Don't know why they did not send it from the NSW Police Force instead of a private name..Prasanna Padmanabhan.  Hope a lot of passengers who get this do not delete thinking it is spam/junk mail.

[Blackduck59]

So from the long list of replies in this thread it is obvious that for some the police are incompetent buffoons, or corrupt or in cahoots with the Government or Cruise line whichever side they aren't on. This investigation has just started and there is mounds of evidence to collect and process. The whole "my cousin's uncle's sister's neighbour saw someone across the street who was on the ship says"...

I put a great deal of weight on what people who were on the ship have to say, and so far from what I have read here; most of them want to cooperate with the investigation and will participate as required. I'm even confident they will contact the NSWP in good time should they not get contacted in a timely fashion. As this thread goes on with the coulda, shoulda, woulda... well they didn't. Now let the investigations follow their respective courses to conclusion, I'm pretty sure 3 separate investigations should find the answers

[Aus Traveller]

18 hours ago, Pushka said:

I thought WHO let the world down. When Australia closed its borders to China WHO criticized them significantly. Didn’t declare the pandemic when they should have. Praised China when in reality they were concealing. 

I agree with that comment.

[Pushka]

10 hours ago, The_Big_M said:

 

"urging against travel bans" isn't wide criticism.

I'll try again. Not sure what happened prior.  Coming from WHO that is indeed politic condemnation. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Pushka

[Aus Traveller]

With multiple investigations into the Ruby Princess episode, we have to hope that they will find the truth. 🙂

[christodan]

3 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

I put a great deal of weight on what people who were on the ship have to say, and so far from what I have read here; most of them want to cooperate with the investigation and will participate as required

 

After watching some of these guests on TV I know they were making ludicrous claims. People who may have never cruised may believe them, but experienced cruisers know what some were saying is nonsense.

 

 

 

55 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

You are correct Sir (I assume it is sir) I am a cabinet maker. I do however have a slew of friends who either are or were members of the RCMP including the Corps Sargeant Major, an Inspector and a bunch of Staff Sargeants. Also members of several local police departments across Canada. So while we have heard many conspiracy theories from some, I'm thinking that somewhere in the 3 investigations the truth will come out. That being said I'm certain that some will not be satisfied.

 

Blackduck,   I once worked with a Canadian. I recall  a conversation we once had  where we compared our police forces as she had had a bad encounter with one of our police. She made the comment that she thought  the Canadian police force has higher standards and is more professional  than the Australian police forces.

[rickays]

Latest from a USA passenger on ABC News -

Ms Prudhom said it was an "epic fail" Carnival Australia hadn't provided information about areas on the ship linked to people diagnosed with coronavirus.  "They knew where we all were. Our cabins, our dining tables and times, our bar tabs and where they were from," Ms Prudhom said.

I wont write what I am thinking now - I'm laughing too much!

[possum52]

4 minutes ago, rickays said:

Latest from a USA passenger on ABC News -

Ms Prudhom said it was an "epic fail" Carnival Australia hadn't provided information about areas on the ship linked to people diagnosed with coronavirus.  "They knew where we all were. Our cabins, our dining tables and times, our bar tabs and where they were from," Ms Prudhom said.

I wont write what I am thinking now - I'm laughing too much!

This is the sort of statements that the general public believe. As they didn't know that Covid 19 was on board until they had the test results back, it was too late then! 

 

Yep laughable! She just had her 20 seconds of fame!

 

[Blackduck59]

just saw this rather interesting, keep in mind it is an opinion piece

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-canada-and-australia-a-tale-of-two-covid-19-responses/

Hope it is informative

[DiamondFour]

55 minutes ago, lyndarra said:

You seem to be the only one saying the police are corrupt. You only have suspicion of corruption. You DO NOT HAVE EVIDENCE.  Unless you can produce verifiable evidence you can only allege corruption. By calling out anyone as corrupt you are  defaming them. Careful how you tread.

 

There is evidence here about how their investigation is definitely biased. What about defaming a cruise line? can the police force be sued for that? Too late when it ruins the reputation of a cruise line to the point that it will not return here preventing yours truly from going on a cruise with them out of Australia again.

 

The evidence is we saw a police raid broadcast on the news of the Ruby Princess to get the voyage data recorders from the bridge of the ship.

 

If the investigation is not biased then why did we not see a police raid on the offices of NSW Health to extract the data and information the ship sent them to confirm what they are saying is the truth?

 

Until that is done then it is biased and corrupt. The police are parading around in the news focusing on Ruby Princess only and making it the focal point of public attention "trial by media" while at the same time we are NOT seeing the same level of scrutiny applied to NSW Health which as questions of integrity, honesty and professionalism leveled at them.

 

Now if someone or some people at NSW Health made a mistake that resulted in the deaths of passengers from that ship then they also should be subject to criminal charges.

 

Besides I am NOT the only one who suggested the investigation was biased or conciliated. 

[By The Bay]

10 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

just saw this rather interesting, keep in mind it is an opinion piece

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-canada-and-australia-a-tale-of-two-covid-19-responses/

Hope it is informative

Thanks for the link. We are fortunate that we are an Island and therefore easier to control entry.

[DiamondFour]

1 hour ago, rickays said:

 

From my reading I find that it is mainly you who is repeatedly saying the police investigation is corrupt.  That is your opinion BUT other people have their own opinions.  MY opinion is that the media is sensationalizing everything and most probably taking comments out of context to make their stories even more sensational.  I will wait until the investigations are finished before I start saying the police are corrupt.  The Gentleman from Canada, Blackduck is entitled to his opinion too without you saying he is biased.

It is not only me.

 

For the record I have absolutely no respect for the NSW police or confidence in their ability ever since the Ruby Princess issue. They have not shown the same level of scrutiny and suspicion to the office of NSW Health as they have of the Ruby Princess when they paraded it on the news as the main focus of their investigation thereby maligning and defaming the good reputation of the ship and crew that was already a victim of the virus from china.

[Aus Traveller]

42 minutes ago, possum52 said:

This is the sort of statements that the general public believe. As they didn't know that Covid 19 was on board until they had the test results back, it was too late then! 

 

Yep laughable! She just had her 20 seconds of fame!

 

Agreed. Some people seem to think that staff on the Ruby Princess knew they had COVID on board, and not only that, but they 'knew' that passengers on the previous cruise had it. It would be laughable if it wasn't so crazy.

[rickays]

5 minutes ago, DiamondFour said:

Until that is done then it is biased and corrupt. The police are parading around in the news focusing on Ruby Princess only and making it the focal point of public attention "trial by media" while at the same time we are NOT seeing the same level of scrutiny applied to NSW Health which as questions of integrity, honesty and professionalism leveled at them.

 

It is the media doing the "trial by media"  They get to choose what to write, fact or fiction or change fact to fiction, print part of a statement to fit in with their story.  They obviously decided to lay the blame at Princess.  Do you have any proof that the police are not including NSW Health, Border Patrol or Government in their investigation?

[rickays]

13 minutes ago, DiamondFour said:

It is not only me.

 

For the record I have absolutely no respect for the NSW police or confidence in their ability ever since the Ruby Princess issue. They have not shown the same level of scrutiny and suspicion to the office of NSW Health as they have of the Ruby Princess when they paraded it on the news as the main focus of their investigation thereby maligning and defaming the good reputation of the ship and crew that was already a victim of the virus from china.

I have noticed you have no respect for NSW police, you continue to state it in almost every post.

[rickays]

43 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

just saw this rather interesting, keep in mind it is an opinion piece

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-canada-and-australia-a-tale-of-two-covid-19-responses/

Hope it is informative

Thank you for posting, it was interesting reading.  Goes to show how quickly things can get out of control.  We are getting on top of it here in Australia but we cant let our guard down.