Alaska and Europe likely to be a washout for 2020

[Paulchili]

20 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Outside of my experiences, but doesn’t a lot of these materials have expiration dates? Stockpiles of zillions today may, or may not, do you any good in 2027. 

They do but they can be handled like groceries or any other item with expiration dates. These types of equipment are used in the hospitals on daily basis, not only in pandemics.

Rotate the stock by distributing/supplying items 1 year before expiration date to the hospitals/clinics/etc and then replace the stock with new equipment good for later. Surely an agency can manage that - these are not the type of problems that cannot be solved if managed properly.

Government had lots of ventilators but most of them didn't work. Why? Because the contract with the company that maintained them was cancelled - that worked out well and "saved" a lot of money (as in penny wise and pound foolish).

Edited April 22, 2020 by Paulchili

[Paulchili]

17 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Hospitals, especially large hospital corporations, slashing on hand inventories and playing JIT with these commodities has been part of the issue.

Another part of the issue was that the government sold these items to private distributors who then sold it to the highest bidders at grossly inflated prices instead of just the government selling it straight to the hospitals at cost.

Another lesson learned for the future?

Edited April 22, 2020 by Paulchili

[Zesty Italian]

23 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Then they should scream even louder because we don't want to find ourselves ever again where we were this year.

Based on our experience this year we should have Gezillions of PPEs, masks and everything else we might need next time - whenever that may be.

Bill Gates predicted such an event in the greatest possible detail in 2014 or 2015 on TED - some didn't take him seriously and did just the opposite - disbanded the NSC's pandemic unit.

Let's hope we've learned something this time.

YES!!

[LHT28]

2 hours ago, Paulchili said:

They do but they can be handled like groceries or any other item with expiration dates. These types of equipment are used in the hospitals on daily basis, not only in pandemics.

Rotate the stock by distributing/supplying items 1 year before expiration date to the hospitals/clinics/etc and then replace the stock with new equipment good for later. Surely an agency can manage that - these are not the type of problems that cannot be solved if managed properly.

 

You would think so but our Government  has masks  out of date   that they stockpiled

https://globalnews.ca/news/6651402/ontario-coronavirus-masks-medical-supplies-expired/

People are getting paid big bucks  for a job they cannot do properly

[pinotlover]

Talking of a second (2nd) Wave, I believe it is logical that it could be worse than the first one. We’re in about Week 5 of the Great Shutdown with at least another 4 to go, maybe more. People are already restless, just imagine how they’ll be by June!

 

If, in November, we are just starting to dig out of Wave 1 , and authorities scream Wave 2; I can easily see a large percentage using a bad word at that point and say “ No we’re not doing that again!”. Taking their chances will appear better than hunkering again. With that happening more could become infected.

 

Numerically, we’re only at 800,000 people infected so far, probably on the way to 1,000,000. Let’s say, that some researchers are correct, and the numbers are 50-85 times that! Only 85 million out of ~ 365 million! That leaves a huge amount of space for Wave 2. 
 

I’m sorry, but by next winter, even without a vaccine, I don’t see the Authorities trying to cancel US Thanksgiving and Christmas. They will be hard pressed to get local officials to enforce such policies if they tried. Many businesses might struggle, yet survive an April and May shutdown. They won’t survive a November and December one. Yep, lots of room for Wave 2 to be worse than #1.

[ORV]

I think the next two to three weeks will be very telling. There is a lot of opening up in many places going on, people protesting being locked up, people being restless in general. 

 

Come May 15 we'll know a lot more. 

 

I'm amused about the delivery you guys have. We're lucky to get a pizza delivered where I live, much less groceries. If it don't come by the mail, UPS or Fedex we ain't getting it. 

 

Meanwhile I'm off to our every two week shopping trip, time to glove and mask up.

[clo]

54 minutes ago, ORV said:

I think the next two to three weeks will be very telling. There is a lot of opening up in many places going on, people protesting being locked up, people being restless in general. 

 

Come May 15 we'll know a lot more. 

 

I'm amused about the delivery you guys have. We're lucky to get a pizza delivered where I live, much less groceries. If it don't come by the mail, UPS or Fedex we ain't getting it. 

 

Meanwhile I'm off to our every two week shopping trip, time to glove and mask up.

I'm on a food site and there have been some hilarious stories. Someone order $250 of groceries and got a bunch of bananas. Or someone ordered from Costco 2-day delivery. After a week he was notified that it would be two more days.

 

And I agree about the next couple of weeks. The mayor of Vegas is already pitching a fit.

[LHT28]

56 minutes ago, ORV said:

I'm amused about the delivery you guys have. We're lucky to get a pizza delivered where I live, much less groceries. If it don't come by the mail, UPS or Fedex we ain't getting it. 

 

Meanwhile I'm off to our every two week shopping trip, time to glove and mask up.

I am with you on that  & even Uber eats etc  do not happen here  even if you pay the exorbitant fees 😉

DH  did the shopping  & was home by 9am   but store shelves  are limited 

we may have to go further afield  for supplies

Stay safe

 

 

[Kate-AHF]

On 4/22/2020 at 5:43 PM, LHT28 said:

DH goes shopping here & most  are pretty good about the distancing rules

We do not have home delivery for groceries  ..they do have curbside pick up  but I hear you have to order a week or so in advance  😲

I made DH a  mask to wear  & it gets washed  when he gets home

 

We live in the middle of nowhere, and delivery is out of the question.  Here's how we got "into the groove" with curbside.  On the same day as my husband did a bare-bones grocery shop, I went online and got a curbside time-slot a week out, and put a few staples in the basket.  Then I just added to the order over the week. The local (40 minutes away) Martin's allows changes to your cart up to 6 hours before your slot.  At the assigned time we pulled in, called the number to say we'd arrived, opened the hatch and they put the groceries in and closed the hatch.  We were in and out in 8 minutes, no contact.  I was SOLD on the whole idea, I tell you.  I think it helped in that "running out to pick up something at the store" was never really feasible for us... town trips were planned.

 

I do miss strolling the aisles to see "what looks good" but not enough to want to head back inside at this point.

[Paulchili]

9 minutes ago, Kate-AHF said:

I do miss strolling the aisles to see "what looks good" but not enough to want to head back inside at this point.

Exactly. If you order grapes, good luck - they could be great or on their last leg (depends on the "shopper" or what's available).

Oranges, OTOH, are more predictable.

There is a learning curve to this new experience.

[clo]

17 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Exactly. If you order grapes, good luck - they could be great or on their last leg (depends on the "shopper" or what's available).

Oranges, OTOH, are more predictable.

There is a learning curve to this new experience.

Certainly because cooking is my favorite past time, I'm picky. My chives haven't really put out much yet and I needed some for a dish. I had to go through multiple 'clam shells' before I found one where the chives were starting to turn brown. That's a tiny - haha - example.

[pinotlover]

Back to the OP question. Most now know that a October Fest in Munich has been canceled for this year. It traditionally ran for three weeks; mid September through the 1st week of October. However, 2020 may not be a wash entirely. The travel agencies in Europe are expecting the Christmas markets will go this year along with the Winter/Christmas Market River Cruises.

 

So if Germany is planning on opening back up by mid to late November, my guess the other Schengen countries will do likewise.

[Hawaiidan]

2 hours ago, clo said:

Certainly because cooking is my favorite past time, I'm picky. My chives haven't really put out much yet and I needed some for a dish. I had to go through multiple 'clam shells' before I found one where the chives were starting to turn brown. That's a tiny - haha - example.

you know  you can grow them in a bucket of dirt...just buy then with root and stick then in the a pot....old coffee can with garden dirt and water once a week  ...  even in winter in Nevada indoors..  Cut the tops and they just keep growing.   You can plant garlic cloves and have garlic chives.too...   A monkey could  do this....even me.

In truth  I  see more risk in some guy delivering  things that he got while shopping just like you would and doing that dozens and dozens of times a day. His exposure is over the top. 

   I see far less risk in me  using a mask  and doing my own.....where I can control the risk equation.    I go once a week... no problem and manage my situation. 

 Same with food from restaurants..  the people who are  delivering are many times less than sanitary.    Many times people who live in their car.!

 

Why suddenly is is not safe for you to go out  but invite dozens of people to do  the same and come to your home?    You have way less safety margin....  wear a mask and glasses and manage the distance and you  reduce the risk to almost nill.    

Edited April 24, 2020 by Hawaiidan

[Paulchili]

2 hours ago, pinotlover said:

So if Germany is planning on opening back up by mid to late November, my guess the other Schengen countries will do likewise.

They may all be in Shengen but Germany is not Italy, Spain or France - if you know what I mean.

[clo]

10 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

My chives haven't really put out much yet

Yep. And I totally agree with your post. Completely.

[Paulchili]

30 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

In truth  I  see more risk in some guy delivering  things that he got while shopping and doing that dozens of times a day.       I see far less risk in me  using a mask  and doing my own.....where I can control the risk equation.

This is where you are wrong.

The highest risk of contracting COVID is any human interaction - like going to the store. You don;t control the risk equation - you don't know when someone will sneeze or cough or stand right next to you (or even bump into you). You still have to handle the items in the store that others may have handled - just like my "shopper" does. The shopper may spend a lot of time in the store but I spend NO time with him/her.

I have no contact with the delivery person. Contracting disease from paper bags and other food items in your bag are much lower than from human contact.

That said, I bring in the bags with gloves, leave non perishables sitting for a day or two (like my mail) and wipe down everything that goes into the fridge right away. The virus does not survive on paper for 2 days.

I also wipe down metal cans. Of course, all fruit is well washed. At the moment I prefer bananas or oranges where you eat the inside or canned fruit like peaches or mandarin oranges (that I normally do not eat).

To each their own.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Paulchili

[clo]

4 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

That said, I bring in the bags with gloves, leave non perishables sitting for a day or two (like my mail) and wipe down everything that goes into the fridge right away. I also wipe down metal cans.

 

I had been doing this until I read this from the FDA,, who I've always considered the most overly cautious.

 

https://www.fda.gov/food/food-safety-during-emergencies/shopping-food-during-covid-19-pandemic-information-consumers

 

We were just at TJs. Although not required, every customer had on a mask and, of course, every employee. And they let in four or five maybe as that number leave.  Oh and we carry a fresh Lysol wipe - that we haven't sucked on! - in with us. And they have staff out front spraying and wiping down every cart. We've only gotten take out three times and each time we picked it up ourselves.

[Paulchili]

5 minutes ago, clo said:

I had been doing this until I read this from the FDA,, who I've always considered the most overly cautious.

 

https://www.fda.gov/food/food-safety-during-emergencies/shopping-food-during-covid-19-pandemic-information-consumers

Well, this is MY take away from the link you posted and that is what we do:

 

Again, there is no evidence of food packaging being associated with the transmission of COVID-19. However, if you wish, you can wipe down product packaging and allow it to air dry, as an extra precaution.

[clo]

17 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Well, this is MY take away from the link you posted and that is what we do:

 

Again, there is no evidence of food packaging being associated with the transmission of COVID-19. However, if you wish, you can wipe down product packaging and allow it to air dry, as an extra precaution.

As they say, "if you wish." Just promise me that you won't take their long held rec for cooking pork to an internal temp of 160 but rather their "new" (well, a few years old actually) rec of 145 🙂

[ORV]

All I know for sure is that each time I go to the store it creates quite a bit of anxiety and I'm quite disheartened to see my fellow Missourians wearing masks and gloves at around 20 or 30 %. Coughing into their hand, or in the air, or anywhere else they shouldn't. But we're a red state, and I live in the reddest part of it. Is there a correlation? Don't ask me. But, on the positive side I live on the edge of two counties, one has had 3 cases and no deaths, the other, which is a huge tourist area, but has been shut down since early March, has 10 and 1 death. On the other hand there's not a lot of testing around here. 

 

Also the workers in the store seem to be about the same. You have to wonder how much contact they have with the public every day. Like Dan, I also worry about the people that work at restaurants where we could get take out or delivery food. We haven't had food prepared anywhere but at home since March 5th. 

[Hawaiidan]

27 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

This is where you are wrong.

The highest risk of contracting COVID is any human interaction - like going to the store. You don;t control the risk equation - you don't know when someone will sneeze or cough or stand right next to you (or even bump into you). You still have to handle the items in the store that others may have handled - just like my "shopper" does. The shopper may spend a lot of time in the store but I spend NO time with him/her.

I have no contact with the delivery person. Contracting disease from paper bags and other food items in your bag are much lower than from human contact.

That said, I bring in the bags with gloves, leave non perishables sitting for a day or two (like my mail) and wipe down everything that goes into the fridge right away. The virus does not survive on paper for 2 days.

I also wipe down metal cans. Of course, all fruit is well washed. At the moment I prefer bananas or oranges where you eat the inside or canned fruit like peaches or mandarin oranges (that I normally do not eat).

To each their own.

Dont know about SF  region  but here you can not enter a store ( they are required to post security officer to insure) without a mask...   Plus they only allow a limited number in the store like 50 in a huge market.    Smaller stores are 3  no  more than 3     

If you take precautions, you can manage the risk way more than relying on a 3rd ot 4th party.  Its pretty simple   

  in the past week  I have gone to the store weekly... everything is controlled and the danger of exposure  has never even been a problem to manage.  In fact pretty easy to do totally safe.

    

You can get paranoid and over the top scared to what is a threat that if you use common sense is very manageable.    You dont have to wear a tin foil hat and garlic clove and wolfbane.     The big threat is in dense populations with people with several serious health problems...that also saw lots of Chinese tourists and foreign visitors.      

[clo]

2 minutes ago, ORV said:

I'm quite disheartened to see my fellow Missourians wearing masks and gloves at around 20 or 30 %.

Oh wow. Yes, I understand. Weeks ago we had maybe 20% NOT wearing masks. Now it 'feels' like maybe 2% (one in 50). But we're next door to CA who's doing a bang up job.

[Paulchili]

5 minutes ago, clo said:

As they say, "if you wish." Just promise me that you won't take their long held rec for cooking pork to an internal temp of 160 but rather their "new" (well, a few years old actually) rec of 145 🙂

I do - I hate well done dry pork. I like it pinkish. No know cases of  Trichinosis from US pork in last many, many years.

[Hawaiidan]

2 minutes ago, clo said:

Oh wow. Yes, I understand. Weeks ago we had maybe 20% NOT wearing masks. Now it 'feels' like maybe 2% (one in 50). But we're next door to CA who's doing a bang up job.

Yup.....they, as I said  will not even let you in a store  unless you have full mask and protection,  that in every store venue that is allowed to stay open.   So it is enforced  many times with armed guards.    even in home depot !  Some even have a temperature scan too....    If you look sick or dont have full protection you aint getting in.period

[Paulchili]

Dan posted:

Dont know about SF  region  but here you can not enter a store ( they are required to post security officer to insure) without a mask.

 

Let's remember that the Bay Area was the FIRST in nation to institute shelter in place and social distancing.

The following graph shows you how well that paid off (note the almost flat line for Bay Area at the very bottom of the chart).

Imagine if the rest of the country had done the same and at the SAME time.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Paulchili