THE FUTURE OF CRUISING ?

[sidari]

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/clia-crafting-curb-curb-framework-safe-cruising-covid-19-era

[neptuno]

Interesting there was little about screening crew?  How many times have you been served by a coughing wait person on MSC?  For us, it was frequent on MSC.  In fact, we have come home sick off MSC about 50% of the time.

[Johan Bear]

No individual cruise company is actually coming out and saying what they are going to do! If you have to social distance on board then cruising as most cruisers know it is finished. Just an example but what about the lifts, to social distance there will be a max of maybe four people and the lifts are well used. I have an MSC booked but cannot see us doing it until there is more clarity.

[Pet]

No doubt all cruise lines are trying to think of the best way forward to both attract passengers and keep everyone safe. As I see it the main casualty for passengers is going to be the restrictions on enjoyment of going on a cruise. After all, we are paying out many thousands of pounds in order to get away from it all back home. But for the foreseeable future we are going to be faced with draconian restrictions on movement and pleasure whilst onboard. How, for example, can we social distance when most of the passageways on ships are no wider than to allow two people to walk side by side alone; theatre entertainment will presumably be restricted to single or double acts - no Broadway style productions involving singers and dancers; no open dining with up to 6-8 fellow passengers; no spar treatment and limited numbers in gyms and bars; how will going ashore work as well. So loads on questions and few answers at present.

[MsTabbyKats]

Cruising as we knew it is a thing of the past for the foreseeable future.

 

For me, it's pointless to wear a mask and/or try to keep a social distance from everyone else on the ship.  Where's the fun?

 

Carnival is planning to resume in the USA in August.  I've been flamed for being negative about it.  But, just in case, against all odds, they do sail, I'm going to be really curious about how things are handled.

[sidari]

Until CLIA and the cruise lines agree something with the CDC there will not be any ships sailing, nor should they until they have a safe position which may mean changing certain areas of ships.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Infrared temperature check and a 5 minute CV19 test will be mandatory before boarding and during cruise.  It will be impossible to visit any islands until a vaccine becomes available.  Ships can visit private islands provided they can be controlled.  
The ship will be the destination until remedies and vaccines become available.  Passengers and crew who exhibit any type of virus will need to be removed from the ship immediately.  This service will need to be included in the cruise fare.  
 

Airlines will also need to do the same as above before they will be safe to fly.  

Edited May 13, 2020 by CGTNORMANDIE

[sidari]

Three US airlines have told their cabin crew not to enforce airline policy of wearing masks once passengers have boarded the aircraft! 

Why have the policy if you are not going to enforce it.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

13 minutes ago, sidari said:

Three US airlines have told their cabin crew not to enforce airline policy of wearing masks once passengers have boarded the aircraft! 

Why have the policy if you are not going to enforce it.

The airlines are going to need more than masks.  I will not fly until I know all passengers and crew have been tested before boarding the plane.  Then I’ll still use a mask.  

Edited May 13, 2020 by CGTNORMANDIE

[Bobal]

11 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Infrared temperature check and a 5 minute CV19 test will be mandatory before boarding and during cruise.  It will be impossible to visit any islands until a vaccine becomes available.  Ships can visit private islands provided they can be controlled.  
The ship will be the destination until remedies and vaccines become available.  Passengers and crew who exhibit any type of virus will need to be removed from the ship immediately.  This service will need to be included in the cruise fare.  
 

Airlines will also need to do the same as above before they will be safe to fly.  

 

To my knowledge there's no accurate '5 minute' Covid test which can be done just prior to people boarding and having a regular temperature means nothing - half the plane or ship could be infected but asymptomatic. All this talk about testing people before they board a ship or plane is irrelevant really because there's no such quick fix test available.

 

As to removing people with symptoms, it's already been seen (in many parts of the world) that countries are not prepared to take people with Covid in, so what would you suggest happens when they are removed?

Edited May 14, 2020 by Bobal

[CGTNORMANDIE]

1 hour ago, Bobal said:

 

To my knowledge there's no accurate '5 minute' Covid test which can be done just prior to people boarding and having a regular temperature means nothing - half the plane or ship could be infected but asymptomatic. All this talk about testing people before they board a ship or plane is irrelevant really because there's no such quick fix test available.

 

As to removing people with symptoms, it's already been seen (in many parts of the world) that countries are not prepared to take people with Covid in, so what would you suggest happens when they are removed?

Abbott Labs are currently producing 5 minute tests...50,000 tests per day.  The problem is that it takes 1 machine to do the test.  They need to design a machine that can do hundreds of tests simultaneously.  Like everything else with C19 things will improve over time.  

Right now I’m concerned with ships sailing in the Caribbean.  Europe is another matter entirely.

Ports of entry are going to have to cooperate with the cruise lines if they want their business.  That is why I said...prearranged.  As the virus dies down more hospitals will be willing to take on contagious people in limited numbers.  Islands and ports were reluctant to allow contagious ships to land for fear of their med systems being overwhelmed.  This too shall change as we go forward.

Edited May 14, 2020 by CGTNORMANDIE

[emmas gran]

Stringent entry restrictions remain in place upon arrival in Dubai which includes: a mandatory DHA test on arrival; a mandatory 14 day quarantine and a follow up test before release.

 

This is from Emirates airline website --they are testing passengers!!

[capriccio]

3 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Abbott Labs are currently producing 5 minute tests...50,000 tests per day.  The problem is that it takes 1 machine to do the test.  They need to design a machine that can do hundreds of tests simultaneously.  Like everything else with C19 things will improve over time. 

 

The reliability of that specific test was called into question yesterday.  See https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-13/abbott-fast-test-missed-many-covid-cases-unreviewed-study-says

 

"The analysis, which has yet to be confirmed, found that Abbott’s ID NOW missed at least one-third of positive cases detected with a rival test and as much as 48% when using the currently recommended dry nasal swabs, according to the report on BioRxiv, a server where researchers post early work before it has been reviewed by other scientists."

[CGTNORMANDIE]

4 hours ago, capriccio said:

 

The reliability of that specific test was called into question yesterday.  See https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-13/abbott-fast-test-missed-many-covid-cases-unreviewed-study-says

 

"The analysis, which has yet to be confirmed, found that Abbott’s ID NOW missed at least one-third of positive cases detected with a rival test and as much as 48% when using the currently recommended dry nasal swabs, according to the report on BioRxiv, a server where researchers post early work before it has been reviewed by other scientists."

A lab comes up with a 5 minute test and it’s flawed.  They did this in less than 60 days.  Imagine what they will be able to do in 6 months.  Yes there will be trial and error but eventually they will get it right.  
 

Again...I will say...we need a 5 minute test that can be processed by the hundreds in a short amount of time.  We will need that test for cruise lines as well as airlines.  

[Beardface]

21 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

 It will be impossible to visit any islands until a vaccine becomes available.

 

If this holds true, sailing out of the US will effectively be canceled until the vaccine comes, because US law pretty much forbids cruises to nowhere without taking measures that the cruise lines deem fiscally prohibitive.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

5 minutes ago, Beardface said:

 

If this holds true, sailing out of the US will effectively be canceled until the vaccine comes, because US law pretty much forbids cruises to nowhere without taking measures that the cruise lines deem fiscally prohibitive.

About time to cancel The Jones Act!

[cruiser man 60]

Europe seems to be getting a grip on virus with a number of countries signing bilateral travel agreements, e.g. France, U.K. & Ireland, Germany, Austria, Switzerland & Luxembourg. So European travel may be possible from end June, not sure if they will allow cruise passengers though.

 

However with USA opening everything with virus still rampant not sure anyone would want to travel to anywhere in USA until its under control and no one will want cruise ships coming to ports from USA ports.

[Markanddonna]

For those of us who are in America or Canada, we may be excluded from travel into many European countries. It seems that Europeans are braced for a slight uptick of cases in order to boost their economy but won't want a second wave. Really, European cruising for Americans won't happen until the spring of 2021.

[cruiser man 60]

32 minutes ago, Markanddonna said:

For those of us who are in America or Canada, we may be excluded from travel into many European countries. It seems that Europeans are braced for a slight uptick of cases in order to boost their economy but won't want a second wave. Really, European cruising for Americans won't happen until the spring of 2021.

Possibly but most European countries will ban Americans because of what they are doing in lack of control of virus compared to Europe.

Probably have mostly Americans going around USA and Europeans in Europe, Caribbean islands may well favour Europe over USA given many have close links to Europe like guadelope, Martinique, st Vincent etc

[Markanddonna]

That is likely the situation for MSC in the Caribbean with it preferring Europeans over North Americans, especially for those who have direct flights to the islands. The other cruise lines will be catering to North Americans.

 

I do take issue with your point about Europeans having the virus under better control.  If you look at the death per millions in each country, many have a higher rate than Americans. As of today: US 263 per million in population, Spain 587, UK 501, Italy 519, France 420, Germany 95, Belgium 773, Netherlands 379, Sweden 361.  IMHO most other countries have vastly under reported and their stats can't be relied upon.  I don't mean to get into an argument here, but death stats for first world countries are the best indicator of how a country is doing.

[cruiser man 60]

1 hour ago, Markanddonna said:

That is likely the situation for MSC in the Caribbean with it preferring Europeans over North Americans, especially for those who have direct flights to the islands. The other cruise lines will be catering to North Americans.

 

I do take issue with your point about Europeans having the virus under better control.  If you look at the death per millions in each country, many have a higher rate than Americans. As of today: US 263 per million in population, Spain 587, UK 501, Italy 519, France 420, Germany 95, Belgium 773, Netherlands 379, Sweden 361.  IMHO most other countries have vastly under reported and their stats can't be relied upon.  I don't mean to get into an argument here, but death stats for first world countries are the best indicator of how a country is doing.

The issue is despite Trumps claims the USA lags far behind nearly every western country for testing per capita and its widely accepted that USA deaths etc are under reported and anyone in Authority who questions that is sacked or if a journalist called stupid!

follwoing from CNN this week;

The independent data aggregation site Worldometer said the US had the highest raw number of tests completed as of May 12. But at the same time, the site's data showed, more than 30 countries were ranked higher than the US in per capita testing.

they are behind all European countries including UK for testing.

[sidari]

The UK has included care home virus deaths and those in individual homes, other Countries have not been doing that.

 

[BermudaBound2014]

I live in Michigan and it's a mess. HUGE MESS. We are still 100% shelter in place. Restaurants aren't open. Non-essential stores (retail) are all closed. We can't even get a hair cut  ( @mafig  no pink hair for me lol), or get our teeth cleaned, or get our dogs groomed. I live on a lake and we have a pontoon boat and we were finally allowed to use our boat as long as it was only family onboard.  It's an insane amount of restrictions (IMO). They are tossing around 3 Billion as the number we will be short for next years school budget. That's Billion with a B.

 

Maybe I'm just starting to feel down because we are still on such rigid lock-down, but I'm thinking the big 45 day trip next January is off the table (only 20 of those were on a cruise). My original guess was cruising in the fall. Sadly, I'm extending that to first quarter of 2021 :(. I wonder if those of you in states less restrictive are feeling less blue.

[cruiser man 60]

Italy is reopening borders and most EU countries are following suit over next month or so, U.K. Residents still have right to travel unrestricted in 2020 but U.K. Have advised against international travel at present.

some hope for tourism this year if we can get out of U.K. 

https://www.dw.com/en/italy-to-allow-unrestricted-travel-starting-june-3/a-53461107

[mafig]

BB,

We're in Florida, we opened restaurants last week (25% occupancy inside, social distancing outside).  This Monday it goes to 50%.  Hairdressers were opened last week (although I was going to do the pink hair myself).  We live on a canal and although we sold our boat a few years ago I don't think there was too much of a boating restriction, since we saw lots of boats going by.  My dentist cancelled my cleaning....I was happy about that.

I think we are lucky because we've had use of our pool for the last few weeks....so pina coladas and gin and tonics and beer (not all at once) by the pool breaks up the day.

Even so, there have been a few days when I've felt down.  Find I'm napping more in the daytime and then can't sleep at night.

Our next door snowbird neighbors are from Michigan.  They're having a house built, so they're stuck in a small apartment...I should email her and see how they're doing.  Hope they haven't killed each other!