Beach cruise?

[Julia’s Journey’s]

7 hours ago, Daniel A said:

 

I don't want to sound negative or argumentative, these are just some things to consider.  As an aside, I don't really think Beach Cruises could even take place until the CDC is satisfied that adequate safeguards are in place to restart cruising.  I see this suggestion as being a means of gradually reintroducing cruising to the public as a safe option after it has in fact, become safe to cruise.  Stay well.

Yes I was talking about doing this once they started cruising again which would be after CDC approval. Many may feel safer going to one port instead of the 3-4 they usually visit and not everyone loves sea days so I thought the beach option would be a good introduction back to cruising. 

[Thrak]

22 hours ago, Julia’s Journey’s said:

Are you on the Island May 24th TA next year?

We are booked on that and the cruise after that to Norway.

 

In theory we are on that cruise. It remains to be seen if the cruise actually happens. I'm not real confident that the other countries will allow us to disembark.

[npcl]

19 hours ago, Times Prince said:

I may be out of date on news, but the last I heard of countries refusing to repatriate was when the crew would have had to pass through a port, then through an airport to get to chartered flights to get back to the countries.   In a time of global fear of further spread of the pandemic the amount of travel from the quarantine ship environment to the country provided too much uncertainty concerning re-contamination.  This, combined with uncertainty about how the highly infectious virus is spread, meant that countries acted with an excess of caution, and also presented unreasonable roadblocks to repatriation.

 

For instance the USA requires that Princess Cruises corporate physician certify the health of the crew member, despite that person never having had direct contact with the crew, with that certification also disregarding the assessment of the Ship's Doctor who could provide accurate input.  In short, the government only trusts their own citizen who they could prosecute should the virus actually be carried by a crew member.  That requirement was rejected by Princess.

 

I agree that cruising will not start without the blessing of the CDC.   Cruising by the public will likely not be a truly safe option until an anti-virus is available or that Covid-19 has mysteriously disappeared for more than a year.   Unfortunately that also means our personal cruising days are over.   Stay well.

Where exactly are you getting that the corporate physician certify the health and that they ignore the ships doctors assessment?

 

According to the CDC site the following is the requirements that cruise line executives must attest to.  It does not limit how they get their information in signing the form.  Only that by doing so they are certifying that the following conditions are met.

Not that they do not even have to certify them as being healthy.

 

They do have to screen them, but only that they pass the screening and do not show symptoms.

 

They do have to separate those that have been exposed to someone with COVID-19, but again do not have to certify that they are healthy.  Only that they have passed screening and kept separate from those not exposed.

 

FROM CDC SITE

 

By signing the attestation form, cruise ship operators agree to follow specific conditions that are designed to allow crew to safely disembark while protecting public health, including the following:

 

Arrange to transport crew members to their final destination (US or overseas) by industry-chartered private transport, industry-chartered private flights, or personal vehicles (no rental cars, taxis, or ride-share services) with measures in place to ensure neither those involved in transport nor other members of the public are exposed to the disembarking individuals.

 

Screen disembarking crew members for symptoms of COVID-19.

 

Ensure crew members with known exposures to COVID-19 are transported separately from those with no known exposure.

 

Provide face coverings, such as a cloth face covering, to disembarking crew members or confirm that they have their own face coverings.

 

Instruct disembarking crew members to stay home for 14 days and continue to practice social distancing after reaching their final destination.

 

Ensure disembarking crew members:

will not stay overnight in a hotel before the flight or at any point until they reach their final destination

will not use public transportation (including taxis, rental cars or ride-share services) to get to the airport/charter flight

will not enter the public airport terminal

will not take commercial aircraft after an initial charter flight

will not have a transportation layover exceeding 8 hours

will not have interaction with the public during their travel home or to their new duty station (e.g., rental car companies, restaurants, other public areas)

[npcl]

19 minutes ago, Thrak said:

 

In theory we are on that cruise. It remains to be seen if the cruise actually happens. I'm not real confident that the other countries will allow us to disembark.

In appears that St Lucia is opening to land travel in June, but under very strict requirements.  Tourists must stay in designated hotels, must travel to the hotel on certified taxi's arranged by the hotel, must wear face masks in public areas of the hotel. Their web site is unclear if they can freely leave the grounds of the designated hotel, but they did say that there are open independent restaurants, but only for delivery and take out, no dining in.  Not exactly my idea of a beach vacation.

 

Based upon this restrictions don't see them welcoming cruise ships any time soon.

Edited May 19, 2020 by npcl

[npcl]

17 hours ago, donaldsc said:

 

Hawaii actually recently arrested someone for leaving their quarantine room and going to the beach.  He posted some pictures on a social media site and Hawaiian authorities tracked him down.  Don't know exactly what they did but they should have changed his quarantine location from his hotel room to jail.

 

DON

They have arrested several that have made national news.  They are also tightening up on the tracking.

[BarbinMich]

8 minutes ago, npcl said:

In appears that St Lucia is opening to land travel in June, but under very strict requirements.  Tourists must stay in designated hotels, must travel to the hotel on certified taxi's arranged by the hotel, must wear face masks in public areas of the hotel. Their web site is unclear if they can freely leave the grounds of the designated hotel, but they did say that there are open independent restaurants, but only for delivery and take out, no dining in.  Not exactly my idea of a beach vacation.

 

Based upon this restrictions don't see them welcoming cruise ships any time soon.

These islands can't afford to have visitors bringing COVID in and infecting the locals.  It would probably quickly spread across an island and most probably don't have adequate medical facilities to handle that.

[npcl]

8 minutes ago, BarbinMich said:

These islands can't afford to have visitors bringing COVID in and infecting the locals.  It would probably quickly spread across an island and most probably don't have adequate medical facilities to handle that.

Yep, that is why they are very smart to be very restrictive.  By having very strict requirements (including anyone coming in having to have tested negative within 48 hours of arrival - forgot to list that one) and focusing on the more lucrative per guest land tourism they can get some money coming in while keeping risk low.

Edited May 19, 2020 by npcl

[PrincessLuver]

24 minutes ago, npcl said:

They have arrested several that have made national news.  They are also tightening up on the tracking.

 

We lived in Hawaii for many years and have lots of family who are Hawaiian who still live there.  14 day quarantining is still in place until June 30, 2020 and could be extended much longer.  Hawaiians have done very well sheltering in place and have only had 640 confirmed cases of COVID - 19 and 17 deaths to date.  Because of the Hawaiian philosophies of "aloha", "ohana" and "aina" the are much more likely to do things for the total good of the group than you might find with many people on the mainland.

 

We are hoping the islands open up for visitors for our annual trip in August to see family but we are not sure that will happen.

 

Also, I would not expect locals to be too exited to see tourists on their beaches because they have gone without being able to use them and then a bunch of tourist show up out of  nowhere and it might not be that inviting as in past times.

 

They have no problem reporting the few tourist who are there of breaking quarantine.....and yes it it very easy to spot who the tourist are in Hawaii.  Fines and almost immediate flights back to the mainland are usually what happens to those who break quarantine when visiting.

 

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/05/19/hawaii-news/hawaii-residents-keep-eye-out-for-visitors-who-break-quarantine/

Edited May 19, 2020 by PrincessLuver

[donaldsc]

1 hour ago, BarbinMich said:

These islands can't afford to have visitors bringing COVID in and infecting the locals.  It would probably quickly spread across an island and most probably don't have adequate medical facilities to handle that.

Islands are a good place to be and perhaps even large islands.  On the large side, New Zealand has done a good job of controlling Covid.  The islands of Saint Pierre & Miquelon have had only 1 case (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/saint-pierre-and-miquelon/) and the patient recovered.  

 

If you look at this site (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries) , virtually all the places w low numbers are islands.  

 

DON

[Hlitner]

On 5/18/2020 at 10:01 AM, Daniel A said:

Daily medical screening of all PAX.  Some type of guarantee that if one soul onboard tests positive for Covid-19 or has flu like symptoms that you won't be quarantined onboard the ship ala Diamond or Grand.

How could anyone make that guarantee?  Even one case would mean that a ship would not be welcome at any port...anywhere!  And most (if not all) countries would insist on everyone being quarantines in their cabins for at least 14 days before allowing them off a ship (and they might be required to quarantine another 14 days on land).  Plus once on land, if in the USA, they would not allowed to use any commercial transportation to get home...unless the CDC changes their current guidelines.

 

As to medical screening it is simply not 100%.  You will not get a positive test result if recently exposed to the virus so anyone who was exposed during their journey to the port (i.e. airlines, hotels, etc) would likely test negative and certainly have no temperature.   Even the new/popular fast Abbott COVID-19 test (the one used in the Whitehouse) has recently been criticized as having too many false negatives (possibly up to 48%).   Folks that test negative one day might test positive the next and negative a day later.  The testing is simply not good enough to guarantee a ship full of healthy souls.

 

Hank

[Daniel A]

54 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

How could anyone make that guarantee?  Even one case would mean that a ship would not be welcome at any port...anywhere!  And most (if not all) countries would insist on everyone being quarantines in their cabins for at least 14 days before allowing them off a ship (and they might be required to quarantine another 14 days on land).  Plus once on land, if in the USA, they would not allowed to use any commercial transportation to get home...unless the CDC changes their current guidelines.

Please refer to post #26.  This thread kind of went off the rails talking about Hawaii and Caribbean Islands.  This thread is really about a gradual restart to cruising AFTER CDC clears cruises as being safe again.  It is only about very short cruises to Princess Cay and back to FLL or maybe a longer cruise to St Thomas and back to FLL.  My post was made with those conditions in mind and what I will want to see before I got on one of those cruises.

[npcl]

23 hours ago, Daniel A said:

What you are saying makes sense.  Why then are so many countries refusing to accept their own citizen crew members for repatriation.  They've clearly been isolated (quarantined) onboard their ships for a lot longer than 2 weeks.  Although a 14 day pre cruise quarantine sounds workable, many states that have imposed 14 day quarantines are just doing a back door at blocking any travelers from entering their respective states.  I give Maine as an example.  Any person entering the state must quarantine in a private residence in Maine before they can even travel to a campground or cabin in the woods.  Visitors are prohibited from serving the 14 day quarantine in their rental hotel room/camp cabin - it must be done in a private residence in Maine.  Obviously, Maine has deliberately set up a catch 22 by abusing the 14 day quarantine concept to block outsiders from coming in.  The abuse of 14 day quarantines by regulators is partly what is causing the public to reject arbitrary restrictions.  

 

I don't want to sound negative or argumentative, these are just some things to consider.  As an aside, I don't really think Beach Cruises could even take place until the CDC is satisfied that adequate safeguards are in place to restart cruising.  I see this suggestion as being a means of gradually reintroducing cruising to the public as a safe option after it has in fact, become safe to cruise.  Stay well.

Here is the reason stated by the CDC which I think gives a major reason why CDC is not exactly friends with the cruise industry. Bolding is mine

 

Why are crew members required to use non-commercial travel if they are on a "COVID-19 free" ship?

 

At this time, given the limited availability of testing onboard ships and inconsistent reporting from cruise ships, CDC does not have confirmation or evidence that any cruise ship is free of COVID-19. We are currently in a phase of the pandemic where it is necessary to implement strict measures to control the spread of COVID-19. Just as the American public has a role to play by practicing social distancing, cruise lines have a role to play in limiting the contact their crew members have with the public when disembarking. This is why CDC has provided instructions for the safe disembarkation of crew in a manner that will not endanger the public’s health. We are hopeful that more cruise lines will take advantage of the opportunity to use the attestation process. Crew members who remain at sea and want to disembark should contact their cruise ship or cruise line about meeting CDC requirements for safe disembarkation and transport.

[Daniel A]

6 minutes ago, npcl said:

Here is the reason stated by the CDC which I think gives a major reason why CDC is not exactly friends with the cruise industry. Bolding is mine

 

Why are crew members required to use non-commercial travel if they are on a "COVID-19 free" ship?

 

At this time, given the limited availability of testing onboard ships and inconsistent reporting from cruise ships, CDC does not have confirmation or evidence that any cruise ship is free of COVID-19. We are currently in a phase of the pandemic where it is necessary to implement strict measures to control the spread of COVID-19. Just as the American public has a role to play by practicing social distancing, cruise lines have a role to play in limiting the contact their crew members have with the public when disembarking. This is why CDC has provided instructions for the safe disembarkation of crew in a manner that will not endanger the public’s health. We are hopeful that more cruise lines will take advantage of the opportunity to use the attestation process. Crew members who remain at sea and want to disembark should contact their cruise ship or cruise line about meeting CDC requirements for safe disembarkation and transport.

I think that regulation only applies to crew members being disembarked into the US.  My post was in reference to all the international crews stranded on their ships because foreign countries refuse to permit their own citizens from returning home.  A ship disembarking foreign crews in Rotterdam has no obligation to follow CDC guidelines unless the crew members are returning to the US.

[npcl]

14 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

I think that regulation only applies to crew members being disembarked into the US.  My post was in reference to all the international crews stranded on their ships because foreign countries refuse to permit their own citizens from returning home.  A ship disembarking foreign crews in Rotterdam has no obligation to follow CDC guidelines unless the crew members are returning to the US.

However you did mention CDC in your post, thus the comment about the currently actions by the CDC.

[Hlitner]

52 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Please refer to post #26.  This thread kind of went off the rails talking about Hawaii and Caribbean Islands.  This thread is really about a gradual restart to cruising AFTER CDC clears cruises as being safe again.  It is only about very short cruises to Princess Cay and back to FLL or maybe a longer cruise to St Thomas and back to FLL.  My post was made with those conditions in mind and what I will want to see before I got on one of those cruises.

There will be some political pressure on the CDC to lift the no-cruise order.  That being said, based on the history of COVID-19 and cruise ships, logic and science would say that there should be no cruising until there is a vaccine and passengers can provide proof of being vaccinated.  I know that seems radical, especially since I am a cruise addict, but it is just logical.  The problem is that the cruise lines will not be able to offer a decent protocol of what they will do if they discover even a single case onboard.  And this could happen on a 3 day cruise or a 30 day cruise.  

 

DW and I still have two booked cruises remaining this year (2 others have already been cancelled) one of which is a 28 day from Rome to Singapore and the other simply two back to back 7 day cruises in the Caribbean.   We would likely accept the personal risk of getting sick and take either of those cruises.  But our major concern is what happens if anyone on those cruises gets sick,.

 

If I were the CDC official making the decision I would not agree to the restart of cruising (they can only control those from the USA) until the cruise lines had an acceptable protocol in place to deal with multiple COVID-19 cases onboard.   Any protocol is going to need the cooperation of a nearby country and one or more ports..as well as one or more land-based hospitals willing to accept sick patients.  To accept anything less would mean that the CDC has simply caved to pressure and is not doing its basic job.

 

As to a protocol to limit the spread onboard, I just do not see any group of measures that would be effective.

 

Hank 

[Daniel A]

5 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

There will be some political pressure on the CDC to lift the no-cruise order.  That being said, based on the history of COVID-19 and cruise ships, logic and science would say that there should be no cruising until there is a vaccine and passengers can provide proof of being vaccinated. 

My thoughts exactly!

 

5 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

 

If I were the CDC official making the decision I would not agree to the restart of cruising (they can only control those from the USA) until the cruise lines had an acceptable protocol in place to deal with multiple COVID-19 cases onboard.   Any protocol is going to need the cooperation of a nearby country and one or more ports..as well as one or more land-based hospitals willing to accept sick patients.  To accept anything less would mean that the CDC has simply caved to pressure and is not doing its basic job.

 

As to a protocol to limit the spread onboard, I just do not see any group of measures that would be effective.

 

Hank 

I'm wondering if cruise ships could voluntarily cordon off a section of the ship as a quarantine area.  If somebody developed a fever or flu like symptoms they could be quarantined right away and crew members with proven immunity could service the quarantine area.  There could be thermal scanners located throughout the ship to assist in assessing the health of PAX.  Still a problem getting localities willing to allow these people to be quarantined/treated ashore.  I lost faith in the CDC a while ago.

[Hlitner]

10 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

My thoughts exactly!

 

I'm wondering if cruise ships could voluntarily cordon off a section of the ship as a quarantine area.  If somebody developed a fever or flu like symptoms they could be quarantined right away and crew members with proven immunity could service the quarantine area.  There could be thermal scanners located throughout the ship to assist in assessing the health of PAX.  Still a problem getting localities willing to allow these people to be quarantined/treated ashore.  I lost faith in the CDC a while ago.

Consider that the Diamond Princess did quarantine everyone in their cabins and that virus kept spreading.  Putting anyone infected in a section of the ship would do nothing to mitigate all the contamination and infection that would have happened before they even discovered the sick passenger/passengers.  That seems to be a big problem with COVID-19 (and Norovirus) that they can be spread before the carriers are even aware they have a problem  As to thermal scanners all this talk about taking temperatures manages to ignore a very important fact.  It may not even help.  Read this article:

https://www.physiciansweekly.com/covid-19-two-thirds-of-hospitalized-patients-presented-with-no-fever/

 

This information has been duplicated around the world but doesn't get a lot of publicity because it does not fit the media's own agenda.  And taking  temperature is worthless for folks who have been infected but are not yet showing any symptoms (including fever).  I am a simple guy and only know what I read :).  So I read that many with COVID-19 do not have a fever,,,,but many think taking temperature is the way to go?  And I read that some folks think testing is the way to deal with this bug, but then I also read that many of the tests (being used NOW) present a lot of false negatives.  I recall this lady high up in the Whitehouse who was tested every day and always negative until the day she wasn't.  Then, they had to start dealing with all the folks she had contact with for days prior to the positive test.  Go figure.

 

Hank

 

[Thrak]

31 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

My thoughts exactly!

 

I'm wondering if cruise ships could voluntarily cordon off a section of the ship as a quarantine area.  If somebody developed a fever or flu like symptoms they could be quarantined right away and crew members with proven immunity could service the quarantine area.  There could be thermal scanners located throughout the ship to assist in assessing the health of PAX.  Still a problem getting localities willing to allow these people to be quarantined/treated ashore.  I lost faith in the CDC a while ago.

 

As long as it includes somewhere such as Wheelhouse I'm good with that.  Perhaps Adagio as it's underutilized anyway. Of course they'd have to open the bar...

[BarbinMich]

On 5/18/2020 at 2:01 PM, Thrak said:

 

Haven't flown to Hawaii. We've talked about taking a cruise from Canada to Hawaii as it can be done one way and then we could spend some time there. That way we would get a cruise plus an extended stay in the islands.  Not much chance of that these days though.

I'm surprised you haven't flown or cruised to Hawaii since you live on the west coast.  Course your weather is milder, I assume, than our Mich. weather is in Jan. which is when we've "escaped" to Hawaii or to take a Caribbean cruise.  Except for the long flights involved I would "vote" for Hawaii over the Caribbean, not that I don't like the latter, esp. the ABC islands.  Have had more than enough of St. Thomas, e.g. and the western Caribbean itinerary, which we've done 7 times).  The southern Carib. itinerary is my favorite as it includes the ABC's.

[Thrak]

1 hour ago, BarbinMich said:

I'm surprised you haven't flown or cruised to Hawaii since you live on the west coast.  Course your weather is milder, I assume, than our Mich. weather is in Jan. which is when we've "escaped" to Hawaii or to take a Caribbean cruise.  Except for the long flights involved I would "vote" for Hawaii over the Caribbean, not that I don't like the latter, esp. the ABC islands.  Have had more than enough of St. Thomas, e.g. and the western Caribbean itinerary, which we've done 7 times).  The southern Carib. itinerary is my favorite as it includes the ABC's.

 

I didn't say we haven't cruised to Hawaii. Our second cruise was to Hawaii and we returned there as part of the 28 day Hawaii/South Pacific cruise. This was in 2012.

 

[boca7]

On 5/18/2020 at 9:11 AM, Julia’s Journey’s said:

We were booked on the now cancelled TA on Enchanted Princess.

 

If princess offered cruises that went to Princess Cays and stayed at sea in that area for 3-5 days with you allowed days off at the beach daily, 5-7 day cruises leaving FLL, a sea day or 2.

How many would book that till ports open up again?

Princess Cays has been open to Day trips for crew onboard during this I heard.
 

We haven’t done Caribbean cruises for years, not huge beach people but would book this to start and get cruising going again.
 

It meets the ‘foreign stop’ and wouldn’t be exposing lots of ports to passengers Etc.

Princess has been offering short day cruises already to that private Island already. 

[voljeep]

31 minutes ago, boca7 said:

Princess has been offering short day cruises already to that private Island already. 

maybe 1-2 a year - if you are talking about 3-4 days cruises 

[Julia’s Journey’s]

21 hours ago, boca7 said:

Princess has been offering short day cruises already to that private Island already. 

I was talking about 4-5 days of beach days at PC as a start to getting cruising back after CV19.

Those one or 2 maybe a year we’re just one day at PC to fill the calendar between other cruises.

[voljeep]

24 minutes ago, Julia’s Journey’s said:

I was talking about 4-5 days of beach days at PC as a start to getting cruising back after CV19.

Those one or 2 maybe a year we’re just one day at PC to fill the calendar between other cruises.

so, overnights at PC ? … hmmm

[Julia’s Journey’s]

18 minutes ago, voljeep said:

so, overnights at PC ? … hmmm

Yes,  but sleep on the ship Like they do the days there now, maybe last aboard at 6pm. Tender there daily or stay onboard.