Australia " very likely" to be closed for the rest of the year.

[AussieVisi2r]

12 minutes ago, xpcdoojk said:

 

Ok, yeah for cultural diversity.  RCI and all of the other cruise companies pays their employees a fraction of what an Australian citizen is paid... regardless of where they are from or what they look like ( I so don’t care).  So, if we triple the price of the cruise and pay Australian wages, they might be willing to accommodate you.  

 

Since you are currently exploiting the poor cruise staff.... 

 

I only said that because you made such a good point about how important cultural diversity is.

 

Feel better now?🤔

 

jc

 I'm confused.  I thought you said your observation was in hotels and restaurants.  
Of course on ships it is totally different. Same as you have very few US staff on ships out of the US.

Edited June 29, 2020 by AussieVisi2r

[xpcdoojk]

10 hours ago, AussieVisi2r said:

 I'm confused.  I thought you said your observation was in hotels and restaurants.  
Of course on ships it is totally different. Same as you have very few US staff on ships out of the US.

 

My point if the cruiseline employed Aussie’s for crew, it would cost a whole bunch more than cruises do now sailing around Australia.  

 

JC

[NuisanceLuke]

On 6/20/2020 at 6:36 PM, Chiliburn said:

Australia is in Asia I think?

Nope, Oceania.

[The_Big_M]

14 hours ago, xpcdoojk said:

 

My point if the cruiseline employed Aussie’s for crew, it would cost a whole bunch more than cruises do now sailing around Australia.  

 

JC

 

That's fine as a point, just the example wasn't correct.

[What We Found Travelling]

In Australia the Victorian Premier just announced a full 6 weeks lockdown as the second wave of the virus hits that state.  The state of Victoria is finding 100 plus new community transmissions each day.  When pressed on whether the BLM rally had any impact, he claimed only 4 cases have been linked to the rally.  He did say, the image of people roaming the streets without masks & social distancing sent the wrong message to the broader community & hence, we now have outbreaks all over.

Based on the governments reaction to a 100 new cases it seems certain cruising out of Australia won’t happen for a long long time.  The USA is in a 1000 times worse position!

[xpcdoojk]

Deaths from Covid19 in the USA are almost not even at epidemic level and way short of pandemic level.  

 

I think we will all learn to live with this virus or we will all kill ourselves in the streets when the food is no longer in the grocery stores.

 

I am afraid leaders all over the world will opt for the latter option.

 

jc

Edited July 7, 2020 by xpcdoojk

[Milwaukee Eight]

46 minutes ago, xpcdoojk said:

Deaths from Covid19 in the USA are almost not even at epidemic level and way short of pandemic level.  

 

I think we will all learn to live with this virus or we will all kill ourselves in the streets when the food is no longer in the grocery stores.

 

I am afraid leaders all over the world will opt for the latter option.

 

jc

Current death rate among positives is very low. Hopefully that hold true. 

[zonacruiser25]

With the actions being taken in Australia at this time, I find it hard to believe that they will welcome any cruises for this year.  Maybe cruise lines will be allowed to start cruises in Australia for Aussies only to begin with, like cruises may begin in Europe for Europeans.  Maybe the trans-Pacific cruises will come back in 2021!

 

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/06/887659557/australia-closes-interstate-border-because-of-coronavirus-outbreak

[xpcdoojk]

It should as long as we continue to protect the at risk elderly and those with serious health issues.  Young people are not safe social distancing in any shape form or fashion here in the USA and probably no where they are completely invincible.  So, whether we develop herd immunity or not, they are probably doing what they are biologically programmed to do.  Which is try to get herd immunity.  Well that and getting la##.  🤣  (self-edited)

 

jc

[zekekelso]

1 hour ago, xpcdoojk said:

I think we will all learn to live with this virus or we will all kill ourselves in the streets when the food is no longer in the grocery stores.

 

Some people in the US are totally OK with accepting 1,000+ deaths a day. Clearly the Australians are not willing to live with that level (adjusted for population, etc.) Not here to debate who is right and who is wrong, but I will point out countries have had no problem with tight lockdowns AND keeping food in the stores. So your premise is dead wrong.

[zalusky]

39 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Current death rate among positives is very low. Hopefully that hold true. 

Watching a doctor last night on the news that said 74% of her recovered patients showed lung scarring.   

[Milwaukee Eight]

7 minutes ago, zalusky said:

Watching a doctor last night on the news that said 74% of her recovered patients showed lung scarring.   

Vented patients?

[xpcdoojk]

1 hour ago, zekekelso said:

 

Some people in the US are totally OK with accepting 1,000+ deaths a day. Clearly the Australians are not willing to live with that level (adjusted for population, etc.) Not here to debate who is right and who is wrong, but I will point out countries have had no problem with tight lockdowns AND keeping food in the stores. So your premise is dead wrong.

 

So, if farmers quit working and truck drivers quit driving, food will magically appear in stores?  Wow... gotta love science.  At some point if everyone is locked down on their little apartment... how do the things we all need to survive get produced?  It is one thing to close Disney land it is another to close a factory or a meat packing plant.  

 

So much for my premise being dead wrong.  

 

We the majority of the people on the planet depend (possibly in the near future, desperately) on those who produce things and stuff.  We can pretend that we are all good and it doesn’t matter, but the reality is a tiny fraction of humanity feed the entire of humanity... what happens when they quit?

 

jc

[xpcdoojk]

45 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Vented patients?

 

It was on the news... that is like having a direct conversation with god don’t you know.. only eclipsed by a conversation on twitter by someone who knew someone.

 

jc

[John&LaLa]

On 6/22/2020 at 3:56 PM, coaster said:

 

Government officials are probably keen enough to know that tourists spending money in hotels and local businesses within the country have a far greater impact than cruise ship passengers where profits and taxes largely go elsewhere.

 

Don't most Americans and Europeans arrive early and possibly stay post cruise to take advantage of the long flights. That's our plan

Edited July 8, 2020 by John&LaLa

[zalusky]

1 hour ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Vented patients?

Not in all cases and obviously more study is required but I am not going to be the guinea pig.

 

http://joannenova.com.au/2020/06/asymptomatic-covid-patients-with-no-symptoms-still-get-lung-damage/

 

There are official studies of this news article that you can google for.

 

[Milwaukee Eight]

16 minutes ago, zalusky said:

Not in all cases and obviously more study is required but I am not going to be the guinea pig.

 

http://joannenova.com.au/2020/06/asymptomatic-covid-patients-with-no-symptoms-still-get-lung-damage/

 

There are official studies of this news article that you can google for.

 

Typically, going on a vent, odds are not in ones favor. However, lots of things have been learned and with treatment. Vents used now as last resort. In the beginning, it was thought moving to a vent was recommended treatment but not so much now. 
 

M8

Edited July 8, 2020 by Milwaukee Eight

[lucymorgan]

On 6/28/2020 at 6:11 PM, AussieVisi2r said:

Doesn't matter where they are from - they all get paid the same basic wage, which is a living wage.  Plus Australia is very multi cultural.  You wouldn't be able to pick nationality from skin colour or accent.  

Exactly.  We have Australian's and permanent residents from many many different countries. 

 

[lucymorgan]

12 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Don't most Americans and Europeans arrive early and possibly stay post cruise to take advantage of the long flights. That's our plan

Europeans yes.  But my understanding (which could be incorrect) is that generally people from the US only get around 2 weeks holiday per year.  Australians by law if permanently employed get 4 weeks holiday per year plus an extra 9 days per year if they have been working in an industry for more than 10 years.  So we can afford to take long holidays - after 10 years of working this adds up to 6 months at half pay.   It is probably one of the reasons Australians are such avid travellers. 

 

I have met many people from the US on cruises out of Oz that fly in a day or two before their cruise and fly out on the day the cruise returns.   

 

Of course retired people and business owners would be in a different situation and may be able to afford to stay for longer - if they don't have responsibilities at home.  I have just purchased a horse from a lady who is selling her horses because she needs to be able to travel to Europe at short notice to care for her elderly father if he needs it in this covid time and has realised that the quarantine period (14 days each way) is incompatible with running a farm.  😞  Sad for her but happy for us.     

 

Hope your plan works out!  Especially as a fellow westie owner 🙂

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by lucymorgan

[Milwaukee Eight]

3 minutes ago, lucymorgan said:

Australians by law if permanently employed get 4 weeks holiday per year plus an extra 9 days per year if they have been working in an industry for more than 10 years.  So we can afford to take long holidays - after 10 years of working this adds up to 6 months at half pay. 

What about individuals that own their own business?  Like Doctors who own their own practice?  Mine doesn’t technically get paid while we vacation but yet overhead and staff remain the same. 
 

M8

Edited July 8, 2020 by Milwaukee Eight

[lucymorgan]

13 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

What about individuals that own their own business?  Like Doctors who own their own practice?  Mine doesn’t technically get paid while we vacation but yet overhead and staff remain the same. 
 

M8

I am not an expert (although I am now what is called a sole trader - I don't have employees). However,  if the doctor employed a receptionist as a permanent employee, they would be entitled to 4 weeks leave (plus probably long service leave if they worked for the doctor for at least 10 years).  https://www.fairwork.gov.au/how-we-will-help/templates-and-guides/fact-sheets/minimum-workplace-entitlements/annual-leave 

 

edit: sadly there are employers who try and sometimes succeed to rip off their employees but these are usually reported and charged.

 

another edit:  a doctor would be expected to have a receptionist to answer the phone and schedule appointments even if they were on vacation.  Many would employ another doctor (a locum) too.

 

  

  

Edited July 8, 2020 by lucymorgan

[johnjen]

I do know that friends of ours in Victoria are completely locked down as of late, they're on Winter break right now I believe.

[UnorigionalName]

16 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Typically, going on a vent, odds are not in ones favor. However, lots of things have been learned and with treatment. Vents used now as last resort. In the beginning, it was thought moving to a vent was recommended treatment but not so much now. 
 

M8

 

Right, the damage isn't from the ventilator, it's from the virus.  It's not quite known yet how permanent the changes are, but it's becoming clear the virus can do significant damage to the lungs.  People have required lung transplants even after recovering from COVID.  As that link also explained, it's now been shown that asymptomatic people have findings of lung damage.  It's still to early to know if it's permanent, but it's not looking good.  It's not like "lung inflammation you see in common cold" findings, it's "crazy COVID lung findings that you don't really see in other diseases" type of findings.

 

I think more and more data is coming out showing that there are pretty severe sequelae for a significant number of survivors, not like the common cold.  It's unknown if the changes are permanent, but the outlook isn't great right now.  There seem to be lasting neurologic and pulmonary issues.  (like in SARS there was a paper showing ~40% of recovered people ended up with chronic fatigue syndrome even lasting ~5 years out when they published their paper). There's a lot of anecdotes of people who got it in the early course back in march, who are not yet, and may never be, back to normal.  It will probably be a while before this data can be aggregated and published.

 

I don't understand why so many people seem to be eager to get the disease, or eager to have like 70-90% of the population to get the disease, when we don't fully understand the long term consequences.

 

With the improvement in treatment of the disease, we are able to prevent the deaths portion, but I am doubtful it will have much of a beneficial impact on the long term effects.  For most of these therapies, the damage is mostly already done and the treatments are more to prevent death rather than prevent disease progression.

Edited July 8, 2020 by UnorigionalName

[zalusky]

21 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Vented patients?

 

Here is another one from Britain about Brain disorder issues.  The patients did not even show lung issues some cases.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/warning-of-serious-brain-disorders-in-people-with-mild-covid-symptoms

[Milwaukee Eight]

19 minutes ago, zalusky said:

 

Here is another one from Britain about Brain disorder issues.  The patients did not even show lung issues some cases.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/warning-of-serious-brain-disorders-in-people-with-mild-covid-symptoms

I’ll share with the boss. She is in tune with the things of brain matter. 
 

It’s my understanding, a CT scan can confirm CV19. It appears as crystals on the film. 
 

M8