Credit Card Dispute - Success

[TexasDad2018]

I wanted to post the details of the route that I took to obtain my refund sooner than the 90-days stated by NCL using some of the great information provided on this forum.  Our family was scheduled to depart on the Getaway out of Rome on May 28th.  This cruise was cancelled by NCL on April 24th and I could not apply for a refund until May 7th which I did.

 

On May 29th, the day after our cruise was scheduled to depart, I opened a dispute with my Chase visa for services not rendered.  I provided all of the receipts for payment and provided a letter outlining these events.  I closed the letter indicating that I thought it was ridiculous to wait this long, almost be 1/3rd of a year, to receive my money back.

 

Chase did request additional information one time (which had already been provided in the first submission).  Happy to report that I received a significant sum back on my credit card today (as we are a family of four booked in the Haven).  Money was returned 32 days after I filed my dispute or 54 days after I filed for my refund.  I am very pleased that this shaved more than a month off the 90 days provided by NCL.

 

Best of luck to those that are now requesting refunds for cancelled cruises.  I think it will be a long road before cruising is back to normal.

 

 

[BirdTravels]

Just wondering if you disclosed to Chase that you received a full refund in the form of a FCC? And that the protracted cash refund was the result of you requesting that NCL change the form of refund from a FCC to a cash refund?  

[TexasDad2018]

I did not disclose that I received a FCC as I immediately requested a refund when the window to do so opened.  I would not say the refund was protracted as I received it much earlier than the 90 days communicated by NCL.

[OzCanuck]

14 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

Just wondering if you disclosed to Chase that you received a full refund in the form of a FCC? And that the protracted cash refund was the result of you requesting that NCL change the form of refund from a FCC to a cash refund?  

But an FCC is not a full refund, is it? 

[All-ready2cruise]

Right! At the very least, it's not what the Credit Card companies consider anyway.  Especially since those with any remaining debt on their CC would still have to pay any interest on those funds.  

 

Cash is always king. 😉

[sanger727]

26 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

Just wondering if you disclosed to Chase that you received a full refund in the form of a FCC? And that the protracted cash refund was the result of you requesting that NCL change the form of refund from a FCC to a cash refund?  

 

When NCL cancels the cruise they owe the person their money back. You get the option of a higher value FCC or a lower value cash refund. The fact that they are choosing to immediately issue the FCC to encourage people to take that route in no way shape or form constitutes the owed refund or negate the fact that customer still has the choice. They don't owe Chase any explanation, a credit or refund was offered and they chose the refund. 

[zqvol]

I wonder how long it takes for this credit to be reversed?

[msmayor]

2 hours ago, zqvol said:

I wonder how long it takes for this credit to be reversed?

 

Generally, the initial 'credit' is only provisional.  Credit card companies will gather all the information they need to make a final ruling, and if the merchant (in this case NCL) makes a compelling case that the credit is not due, the credit card company will re-charge the account.

 

Credit card companies have three billing cycles or 90 days to issue a final decision.  It isn't safe to assume a credit is permanent until it's been there for 91 days without reversal.

Edited June 30, 2020 by msmayor

[tomk3212]

We got our refund (amount was under $1,000 USD) for our cancelled cruise in April around the 65-day mark so I don't have a lot to complain about compared to MANY others on these forums.   However, as many have pointed out it IS annoying to have to wait for YOUR money when you buy something the company you've bought it from cancels your purchase and then makes you wait 90 days to get YOUR money back. 

[OzCanuck]

1 hour ago, msmayor said:

 

Generally, the initial 'credit' is only provisional.  Credit card companies will gather all the information they need to make a final ruling, and if the merchant (in this case NCL) makes a compelling case that the credit is not due, the credit card company will re-charge the account.

 

Credit card companies have three billing cycles or 90 days to issue a final decision.  It isn't safe to assume a credit is permanent until it's been there for 91 days without reversal.

I think it was a rhetorical question. 

[Turtles06]

6 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Just wondering if you disclosed to Chase that you received a full refund in the form of a FCC? And that the protracted cash refund was the result of you requesting that NCL change the form of refund from a FCC to a cash refund?  

 

6 hours ago, OzCanuck said:

But an FCC is not a full refund, is it? 

 

Of course it's not a full refund.  It's a piece of paper with some value that NCL has attached to it along with rules governing its use and deadlines for using it.   An actual refund is getting your money back, money that you can use or not whenever you want and for whatever you want.   NCL and other merchants may play around with language, but that doesn't make a FCC a "full refund." 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Turtles06

[Love my butler]

I will gladly pay you Thursday for a hamburger today.......

[Jacobs Ema]

Filing a dispute with your cc company isn’t supposed to be used because you are impatient. It’s supposed to be used when a wrong has been committed. Be aware if NCL can prove they did no wrong, your cc can be charged back.

[Outerdog]

25 minutes ago, Jacobs Ema said:

Filing a dispute with your cc company isn’t supposed to be used because you are impatient. It’s supposed to be used when a wrong has been committed. Be aware if NCL can prove they did no wrong, your cc can be charged back.

 

But they did do wrong. OP was supposed to be on a ship on May 29.  They were not on a ship because NCL cancelled the cruise on April 24. A full month later, OP had not received their cash refund. Services purchased by OP were not provided by nor refunded by NCL.

 

Don't give me any garbage about FCC being a "refund". Not only is it NOT a refund, but OP never agreed to those terms.

 

Dispute filed by OP and closed by credit card in OP's favor. Case closed.

[BirdTravels]

43 minutes ago, Outerdog said:

 

But they did do wrong. OP was supposed to be on a ship on May 29.  They were not on a ship because NCL cancelled the cruise on April 24. A full month later, OP had not received their cash refund. Services purchased by OP were not provided by nor refunded by NCL. Don't give me any garbage about FCC being a "refund". Not only is it NOT a refund, but OP never agreed to those terms. Dispute filed by OP and closed by credit card in OP's favor. Case closed.

The case was closed because the OP hid the fact that they had received reimbursement in the form of a FCC (the OP admits it above). The OP fraudulently claimed that they did not receive any refund of any kind. When the OP filed for a cash refund, they agreed to the terms of that refund which was about 90 days when they clicked "submit". Then they went to the cc company and, once again hid the fact that they agreed to a 90 day refund, and said "the cash refund terms was too slow." Lots of things which were conveniently left out of the charge back claim to the cc company. Hope Chase never finds out.    

 

Outerdog, how many NCL refunds have you requested? We requested two, so we know exactly what the process is and how that process is communicated, in writing, from the cruiseline. 

Edited July 1, 2020 by BirdTravels

[Outerdog]

2 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

The case was closed because the OP hid the fact that they had received reimbursement in the form of a FCC (the OP admits it above). The OP fraudulently claimed that they did not receive any refund of any kind. When the OP filed for a cash refund, they agreed to the terms of that refund which was about 90 days when they clicked "submit".

 

FCC is not a refund.

 

You don't know what they claimed.

 

OP did not have a choice but to agree to terms over which they had no control. NCL had their money -- NCL moved the goalposts, like usual. OP did not agree to these terms when they booked, that is any terms regarding 90 days for refunds when the cruise line cancels a voyage, take a peek, it's not in there. 

 

Why do you appear in every thread regarding pax who file disputes with their CCs. You claim each time that it's "fraud" -- it's not. It's been explained to you dozens of times by dozens of posters why it isn't fraud, and you always ghost the thread when that happens. Hint: The CC companies are not stupid. They protect their interests without BirdTravel's help on CC.

 

Why not let people just share their experiences in these uncertain times without having to jump in each time?

[sanger727]

8 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

The case was closed because the OP hid the fact that they had received reimbursement in the form of a FCC (the OP admits it above). The OP fraudulently claimed that they did not receive any refund of any kind. When the OP filed for a cash refund, they agreed to the terms of that refund which was about 90 days when they clicked "submit". Then they went to the cc company and, once again hid the fact that they agreed to a 90 day refund, and said "the cash refund terms was too slow." Lots of things which were conveniently left out of the charge back claim to the cc company. Hope Chase never finds out.    

 

Outerdog, how many NCL refunds have you requested? We requested two, so we know exactly what the process is and how that process is communicated, in writing, from the cruiseline. 

just curious how many of those refunds you received back? Asking for a refund isn’t like signing a new contract where you are ‘abiding by the terms. NCL broke the contract they had with the OP when they cancelled the cruise. They owe the OP their money back. The fact that they want to create this outrageous process to claim a rightfully owed refund doesn’t mean the OP agrees to the terms. Had they not filed for a refund then they would never have received one from NCL. 
 

I don’t see how people can still defend NCL when they can cancel your cruise in May, not allow you to even ask for a refund until July (and you only get 5 days to ask so make sure to mark your calendar) And then  tell you you won’t receive it until October.  On top of that there are new threads popping up every day from people who were in the first batch of cancellations and still didn’t receive their refund in 90 days. At this point I would blame no one for doing a charge back. NCL has created an environment that is incredibly unfair to the consumer and has no credibility that you will ever receive this promised refund.

[MechE31]

5 hours ago, sanger727 said:

just curious how many of those refunds you received back? Asking for a refund isn’t like signing a new contract where you are ‘abiding by the terms. NCL broke the contract they had with the OP when they cancelled the cruise. They owe the OP their money back. The fact that they want to create this outrageous process to claim a rightfully owed refund doesn’t mean the OP agrees to the terms. Had they not filed for a refund then they would never have received one from NCL. 
 

I don’t see how people can still defend NCL when they can cancel your cruise in May, not allow you to even ask for a refund until July (and you only get 5 days to ask so make sure to mark your calendar) And then  tell you you won’t receive it until October.  On top of that there are new threads popping up every day from people who were in the first batch of cancellations and still didn’t receive their refund in 90 days. At this point I would blame no one for doing a charge back. NCL has created an environment that is incredibly unfair to the consumer and has no credibility that you will ever receive this promised refund.

 

They didn't actually break the contract. The 2018 contract that was in place when I booked (and is still in the current one) had the following statement:

 

(e) Compliance with Government Orders: The Carrier shall have the absolute right, without liability for compensation to the Guest of any kind, to comply with governmental orders, recommendations or directions, including but not limited to those pertaining to health, security, immigration, customs or safety.

 

The government (CDC) ordered them to shut down.

 

Note that I'm not trying to say it is the right thing to do and they should issue prompt refunds. If they tried to stand on this, they'd likely lose any hope of future bookings from most people, so they are doing the right thing. However, from a contracts standpoint, they owe us nothing.

Edited July 1, 2020 by MechE31

[fragilek]

My daughter got given a credit note for canceled Iceland air flights.  She did not want that she wanted her money back but at that time the airline was just not playing ball.  She contacted her bank (credit card booking) and they took up the case and she was refunded in full.  The bank were fully aware that she had been issued a credit voucher she did not want  & that did not make any difference to the refund.  

[sanger727]

54 minutes ago, MechE31 said:

 

They didn't actually break the contract. The 2018 contract that was in place when I booked (and is still in the current one) had the following statement:

 

(e) Compliance with Government Orders: The Carrier shall have the absolute right, without liability for compensation to the Guest of any kind, to comply with governmental orders, recommendations or directions, including but not limited to those pertaining to health, security, immigration, customs or safety.

 

The government (CDC) ordered them to shut down.

 

Note that I'm not trying to say it is the right thing to do and they should issue prompt refunds. If they tried to stand on this, they'd likely lose any hope of future bookings from most people, so they are doing the right thing. However, from a contracts standpoint, they owe us nothing.

 

I feel very sure that If they were to cancel with zero compensation a class action lawsuit would be filed and that argument would never stand up in court. 

[The Traveling Man]

17 hours ago, Love my butler said:

I will gladly pay you Thursday for a hamburger today.......

How apropos!  But I think the original quote from Wimpy to Popeye was "Tuesday."

[Trimone]

All this rubbish on here, if a merchant doesn’t complete the transaction, you are entitled to a full refund, it’s your money full stop.

90 days is totally unacceptable to any credit card company when you request your money back, I was fully refunded within 30 days, you don’t need a reason the merchant didn’t provide the service.

[emm126]

It's funny to me how some think it unethical or dishonest that cruisers file a dispute with their credit card company however find nothing wrong when NCL basically lies in their 70 plus page reply and states the cruiser "chose" the FCC, so no refund is due. I have seen the cancellation email, you can choose a refund or FCC. OP picked cash refund. NCL knows this when they answered the dispute? but that is not dishonest?

[Love my butler]

2 hours ago, emm126 said:

It's funny to me how some think it unethical or dishonest that cruisers file a dispute with their credit card company however find nothing wrong when NCL basically lies in their 70 plus page reply and states the cruiser "chose" the FCC, so no refund is due. I have seen the cancellation email, you can choose a refund or FCC. OP picked cash refund. NCL knows this when they answered the dispute? but that is not dishonest?

Honesty and veracity are not NCL's strong suits.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Love my butler

[BirdTravels]

7 hours ago, emm126 said:

It's funny to me how some think it unethical or dishonest that cruisers file a dispute with their credit card company however find nothing wrong when NCL basically lies in their 70 plus page reply and states the cruiser "chose" the FCC, so no refund is due. I have seen the cancellation email, you can choose a refund or FCC. OP picked cash refund. NCL knows this when they answered the dispute? but that is not dishonest?

It is not unethical or dishonest to file a claim for an item. 

 

My point is that it is fraud to make a claim by selectively providing details that substantiate your position and omitting those which are unfavorable. In this case, the OP freely admits that they selected information to disclose to their cc company and hid other information which would cause their cc company to deny the chargeback.
 

It’s like dealing with my kids. “Mom, I accidentally hit the curb and wrecked the tire on the car”. Truth: “Mom, I was racing my buddy to McD, lost control of the car, and wreaked the tire when I slammed into a center median”.