npcl Posted September 21, 2020 #851 Share Posted September 21, 2020 9 hours ago, Arizona Wildcat said: Ok. Understand but that does not answer my question. Since the older you get the less effective your immunize system does that mean 80% effective at 20, 60% at 40 and progressively less for older people? no one will know until the study data is analyzed. a good look at the subgroups will take more time than getting overall efficacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ken the cruiser Posted September 21, 2020 Author #852 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) Is this possibly what we've been waiting to see with regards to the RCG and NCLH Healthy Sail Panel conclusions which are summarized on Page 9? https://www.royalcaribbeangroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Healthy-Sail-Panel_Full-Recommendations_9.21.20_FINAL.pdf The following document represents the findings of a four-month effort by a panel of experts in public health, infectious disease, biosecurity, epidemiology, hospitality, and maritime operations. The Healthy Sail Panel (the Panel; the Expert Panel) was convened at the request of cruise industry leaders Royal Caribbean Group and Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd. Edited September 21, 2020 by Ken the cruiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Wildcat Posted September 21, 2020 #853 Share Posted September 21, 2020 6 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said: Is this possibly what we've been waiting to see with regards to the RCG and NCLH Healthy Sail Panel conclusions which are summarized on Page 9? https://www.royalcaribbeangroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Healthy-Sail-Panel_Full-Recommendations_9.21.20_FINAL.pdf The following document represents the findings of a four-month effort by a panel of experts in public health, infectious disease, biosecurity, epidemiology, hospitality, and maritime operations. The Healthy Sail Panel (the Panel; the Expert Panel) was convened at the request of cruise industry leaders Royal Caribbean Group and Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd. That indeed is the report we have been waiting for. The points important to my DW and self are: Shorter cruises Destinations at first to cruiseline owned ports. Port calls limited by the port ability to disembark and treat COVID patients Masks except outside ones cabin except while eating or drinking Shore excursions limited to cruiseline operated tours. An observation is these rules would make our TA via Greenland and Iceland not likely. DW with asthma is not able to wear a mask for an extended time. We also enjoy small group tours. We would cancell given these rules. Again lots can change in 10 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covepointcruiser Posted September 21, 2020 #854 Share Posted September 21, 2020 If your DW has trouble breathing with a mask because of her asthma she should not be traveling. Hope all those with medical conditions making them susceptible to a bad outcome from COVID 19 defer travel until it is safe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeRick Posted September 22, 2020 #855 Share Posted September 22, 2020 For those of you science and medical types out there reading this thread you can get a daily email from the CDC Library called COVID-19 Science Updates. https://www.cdc.gov/library/covid19/scienceupdates.html?Sort=Date%3A%3Adesc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeRick Posted September 22, 2020 #856 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Worldwide vaccine distribution plan. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/09/who-unveils-global-plan-fairly-distribute-covid-19-vaccine-challenges-await 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fouremco Posted September 22, 2020 #857 Share Posted September 22, 2020 38 minutes ago, TeeRick said: Worldwide vaccine distribution plan. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/09/who-unveils-global-plan-fairly-distribute-covid-19-vaccine-challenges-await IMO, it's unfortunate that the US and China have chosen not to join this program. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homosassa Posted September 22, 2020 #858 Share Posted September 22, 2020 56 minutes ago, TeeRick said: For those of you science and medical types out there reading this thread you can get a daily email from the CDC Library called COVID-19 Science Updates. https://www.cdc.gov/library/covid19/scienceupdates.html?Sort=Date%3A%3Adesc Thanks for the link. Lucky me, I was selected for the site user syrvey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeRick Posted September 22, 2020 #859 Share Posted September 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Fouremco said: IMO, it's unfortunate that the US and China have chosen not to join this program. The US does not fund WHO under the current administration as of a few months ago. China is developing their own vaccine and own program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drarill Posted September 22, 2020 #860 Share Posted September 22, 2020 3 hours ago, TeeRick said: The US does not fund WHO under the current administration as of a few months ago. China is developing their own vaccine and own program. Rick, do you mind if I pick your mind? What do you think about this? Been reading about COVID and the MMR vaccine. I also have colleagues getting a booster. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200908/could-the-mmr-vaccine-help-prevent-covid-19-new-trial-may-tell#2 https://www.wjbf.com/community/study-suggests-mmr-vaccine-offers-some-protection-against-covid-19-symptoms/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ken the cruiser Posted September 22, 2020 Author #861 Share Posted September 22, 2020 52 minutes ago, drarill said: Rick, do you mind if I pick your mind? What do you think about this? Been reading about COVID and the MMR vaccine. I also have colleagues getting a booster. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200908/could-the-mmr-vaccine-help-prevent-covid-19-new-trial-may-tell#2 https://www.wjbf.com/community/study-suggests-mmr-vaccine-offers-some-protection-against-covid-19-symptoms/ I'm interested to hear what folks have to say as well regarding the MMR shot and its ability to boost the general immune response for a COVID vaccine once they are available. Funny thing, I started this thread noting the fact my DW and I are in our late 60's and recently got the MMR shot for just the reasons mentioned in these two articles. When we were young the MMR shot was not available yet, so we got the mumps and measles the old fashion way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimbecky Posted September 23, 2020 #862 Share Posted September 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said: I'm interested to hear what folks have to say as well regarding the MMR shot and its ability to boost the general immune response for a COVID vaccine once they are available. Funny thing, I started this thread noting the fact my DW and I are in our late 60's and recently got the MMR shot for just the reasons mentioned in these two articles. When we were young the MMR shot was not available yet, so we got the mumps and measles the old fashion way. Hi I didn't read the articles in your post but I did research on my own quite some time ago and it led me to get a booster. Can't hurt, especially since I read the Rubella antibody has a close resemblance to the COVID19 antibody. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ken the cruiser Posted September 23, 2020 Author #863 Share Posted September 23, 2020 1 hour ago, mimbecky said: Hi I didn't read the articles in your post but I did research on my own quite some time ago and it led me to get a booster. Can't hurt, especially since I read the Rubella antibody has a close resemblance to the COVID19 antibody. With all the positives we have recently read about the MMR vaccine and really no downside we could see, we figured what the heck. Of course, we'll really never know for sure if it helps, but to not take it given our age and all that's going on right now, it just seemed to us like the right thing to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeRick Posted September 23, 2020 #864 Share Posted September 23, 2020 OK this is a very interesting topic (MMR vaccine and COVID) that I have been following. Initially I thought no way - but I am now thinking there might be something to it. 1) The group at Washington University St Louis is a very good medical team coordinating the 30,000 person trial. https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/global-trial-to-test-whether-mmr-vaccine-protects-front-line-health-care-workers-against-covid-19/ 2) Most of us have had the MMR vaccine in early childhood and it offers T-Cell based protection against those 3 viruses (mixture of 3 live attenuated viruses). It also offers some neutralizing antibody protection for years (20?) but we lose it later in life. 3) It seems that 30 AA residues share similarities between the Spike (S) of the SARS-CoV-2 virus and the Fusion glycoprotein of Measles virus and the envelope glycoprotein of the Rubella virus. This might provide protective T-Cell epitopes and antibodies. 4) Boosting with MMR as an adult might be a general boost to the immune system helping protect against COVID. 5) Some interesting points to consider: why are our kids mostly protected from COVID disease even if positive for the virus? And younger people in general? Perhaps because they have "fresher" immunity from more recent MMR vaccinations vs older adults? 6) The case of the USS Roosevelt is quite interesting. The US Navy gave all sailors a booster MMR vaccine. It was reported that 955 sailors were positive for the virus but only 1 hospitalized. Interesting! https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/05/01/2026166/0/en/MMR-Vaccine-May-Reduce-COVID-19-Hospitalization-Rate-According-to-World-Organization.html I am open-minded on this approach and am considering getting an MMR booster myself. It is safe and can't hurt. There are similar studies with the BCG vaccine and protection against COVID in those countries (not US) that use it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7413058/ 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.T.B. Posted September 23, 2020 #865 Share Posted September 23, 2020 No idea if anyone saw this article, but it's quite interesting: https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/21/scitranslmed.abd5487 The "dumbed down" version (which I found quite helpful! ): https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/kids-better-immune-response-covid19-compared-adults-study-173710433.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger88 Posted September 23, 2020 #866 Share Posted September 23, 2020 13 hours ago, mimbecky said: Hi I didn't read the articles in your post but I did research on my own quite some time ago and it led me to get a booster. Can't hurt, especially since I read the Rubella antibody has a close resemblance to the COVID19 antibody. Whatever it is that thing has killed over 200k people in the US alone. I dont care whether its bodies or antibodies or whatever, I want to stay away from it unless the vaccine is around. My guess would be 2-3 months and we will have it and start a normal life again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeRick Posted September 23, 2020 #867 Share Posted September 23, 2020 36 minutes ago, K.T.B. said: No idea if anyone saw this article, but it's quite interesting: https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/21/scitranslmed.abd5487 The "dumbed down" version (which I found quite helpful! 😞 https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/kids-better-immune-response-covid19-compared-adults-study-173710433.html K.T.B. the first article you posted here is quite interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeRick Posted September 23, 2020 #868 Share Posted September 23, 2020 13 minutes ago, Roger88 said: Whatever it is that thing has killed over 200k people in the US alone. I dont care whether its bodies or antibodies or whatever, I want to stay away from it unless the vaccine is around. My guess would be 2-3 months and we will have it and start a normal life again. We might have a vaccine in 2-3 months. Possible. But a normal life even with an approved vaccine is not in that time frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drarill Posted September 23, 2020 #869 Share Posted September 23, 2020 1 hour ago, TeeRick said: OK this is a very interesting topic (MMR vaccine and COVID) that I have been following. Initially I thought no way - but I am now thinking there might be something to it. 1) The group at Washington University St Louis is a very good medical team coordinating the 30,000 person trial. https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/global-trial-to-test-whether-mmr-vaccine-protects-front-line-health-care-workers-against-covid-19/ 2) Most of us have had the MMR vaccine in early childhood and it offers T-Cell based protection against those 3 viruses (mixture of 3 live attenuated viruses). It also offers some neutralizing antibody protection for years (20?) but we lose it later in life. 3) It seems that 30 AA residues share similarities between the Spike (S) of the SARS-CoV-2 virus and the Fusion glycoprotein of Measles virus and the envelope glycoprotein of the Rubella virus. This might provide protective T-Cell epitopes and antibodies. 4) Boosting with MMR as an adult might be a general boost to the immune system helping protect against COVID. 5) Some interesting points to consider: why are our kids mostly protected from COVID disease even if positive for the virus? And younger people in general? Perhaps because they have "fresher" immunity from more recent MMR vaccinations vs older adults? 6) The case of the USS Roosevelt is quite interesting. The US Navy gave all sailors a booster MMR vaccine. It was reported that 955 sailors were positive for the virus but only 1 hospitalized. Interesting! https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/05/01/2026166/0/en/MMR-Vaccine-May-Reduce-COVID-19-Hospitalization-Rate-According-to-World-Organization.html I am open-minded on this approach and am considering getting an MMR booster myself. It is safe and can't hurt. There are similar studies with the BCG vaccine and protection against COVID in those countries (not US) that use it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7413058/ Thanks Rick! already have an appointment for my booster this Friday. Hope the researchers are checking if those children that are getting sick were immunized or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ken the cruiser Posted September 23, 2020 Author #870 Share Posted September 23, 2020 Well, it looks like the gang is all here now as J&J has just entered their Phase 3 trials with their one and done vaccine - https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/johnson-and-johnson-enters-phase-3-trial-for-single-dose-coronavirus-vaccine/ar-BB19l3Co?ocid=uxbndlbing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cangelmd Posted September 23, 2020 #871 Share Posted September 23, 2020 1 hour ago, TeeRick said: OK this is a very interesting topic (MMR vaccine and COVID) that I have been following. Initially I thought no way - but I am now thinking there might be something to it. 1) The group at Washington University St Louis is a very good medical team coordinating the 30,000 person trial. https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/global-trial-to-test-whether-mmr-vaccine-protects-front-line-health-care-workers-against-covid-19/ 2) Most of us have had the MMR vaccine in early childhood and it offers T-Cell based protection against those 3 viruses (mixture of 3 live attenuated viruses). It also offers some neutralizing antibody protection for years (20?) but we lose it later in life. 3) It seems that 30 AA residues share similarities between the Spike (S) of the SARS-CoV-2 virus and the Fusion glycoprotein of Measles virus and the envelope glycoprotein of the Rubella virus. This might provide protective T-Cell epitopes and antibodies. 4) Boosting with MMR as an adult might be a general boost to the immune system helping protect against COVID. 5) Some interesting points to consider: why are our kids mostly protected from COVID disease even if positive for the virus? And younger people in general? Perhaps because they have "fresher" immunity from more recent MMR vaccinations vs older adults? 6) The case of the USS Roosevelt is quite interesting. The US Navy gave all sailors a booster MMR vaccine. It was reported that 955 sailors were positive for the virus but only 1 hospitalized. Interesting! https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/05/01/2026166/0/en/MMR-Vaccine-May-Reduce-COVID-19-Hospitalization-Rate-According-to-World-Organization.html I am open-minded on this approach and am considering getting an MMR booster myself. It is safe and can't hurt. There are similar studies with the BCG vaccine and protection against COVID in those countries (not US) that use it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7413058/ Thanks for the lit search. Like many other questions about Covid, we may learn the answer to this one when, hopefully, it is somewhat irrelevant. I was going to add the BCG data, but you already did. It is sounding more and more that Immunity to Covid may well multifactorial, with a heavy dose of cellular immunity, may be developing around us (at least those of us living in states with low, but widespread ongoing infections) and will be hard to measure because Abs are only part of the story. I think it is imperative that before vaccination becomes widespread, we figure out why the spectrum of disease is so wide/why kids rarely get sick. I say that because I think it may significantly change recommendations for children, especially young children. Also I thought Rubella immunity lasted much longer than 20 years, we don’t routinely revaccinate adults. All staff in healthcare settings are routinely tested for rubella at time of hire, so some people get retested multiple times and I’ve only rarely heard of someone being negative. I do know one individual, early 40s, who has never tested positive and has had 3-4 vaccinations, so it does happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeRick Posted September 23, 2020 #872 Share Posted September 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Ken the cruiser said: Well, it looks like the gang is all here now as J&J has just entered their Phase 3 trials with their one and done vaccine - https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/johnson-and-johnson-enters-phase-3-trial-for-single-dose-coronavirus-vaccine/ar-BB19l3Co?ocid=uxbndlbing Let's hope it works! J&J Janssen vaccine is a human adenovector (AD-26) based vaccine so a bit different than AZ/Oxford approach (chimpanzee adenovector) and different than other similar approaches using human AD-5 vectors (CanSino-China). Of interest I believe the Russian Vaccine (Sputnik) uses a prime boost with AD-5 and AD-26 vectors. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31866-3/fulltext I am hoping that the protein subunit vaccines being developed move along quickly as they are tried and true technology in people. (GSK, Novavax, Sanofi) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeRick Posted September 23, 2020 #873 Share Posted September 23, 2020 1 hour ago, cangelmd said: Thanks for the lit search. Like many other questions about Covid, we may learn the answer to this one when, hopefully, it is somewhat irrelevant. I was going to add the BCG data, but you already did. It is sounding more and more that Immunity to Covid may well multifactorial, with a heavy dose of cellular immunity, may be developing around us (at least those of us living in states with low, but widespread ongoing infections) and will be hard to measure because Abs are only part of the story. I think it is imperative that before vaccination becomes widespread, we figure out why the spectrum of disease is so wide/why kids rarely get sick. I say that because I think it may significantly change recommendations for children, especially young children. Also I thought Rubella immunity lasted much longer than 20 years, we don’t routinely revaccinate adults. All staff in healthcare settings are routinely tested for rubella at time of hire, so some people get retested multiple times and I’ve only rarely heard of someone being negative. I do know one individual, early 40s, who has never tested positive and has had 3-4 vaccinations, so it does happen. We truly are learning much about SARS-CoV-2 and its immune responses and about COVID disease. Very quickly. More to be learned but it bodes well for defeating this beast! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeRick Posted September 24, 2020 #874 Share Posted September 24, 2020 CDC Vaccine distribution and it's playbook. https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/937870?src=wnl_edit_tpal&uac=370300SV&impID=2582733&faf=1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cangelmd Posted September 24, 2020 #875 Share Posted September 24, 2020 38 minutes ago, TeeRick said: CDC Vaccine distribution and it's playbook. https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/937870?src=wnl_edit_tpal&uac=370300SV&impID=2582733&faf=1 In big general terms that’s what I expected - just makes sense. There are several hundred thousand healthcare workers, wide range of ages, but no children and few frail elderly. Wide ranges of health status and socioeconomic conditions - the people in environmental services and the kitchen servers and the runners are all healthcare workers too. Many people who understand and will be willing to fill out follow up surveys. Risk-benefit ratio of the vaccine is tilted much more toward vaccination than the average person. Even though a lot of us have concerns about the novel vaccines, there will be plenty of people to expand the safety data. There will be informed consent, I got my flu shot yesterday, and it included an informed consent, although they don’t exactly call it that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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