Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, cruise47 said:

Have anyone heard about a New Vaccine Passport being developed in Denmark.

This passport will show that you have been vaccinated for  COVID-19 (dates and the type of vaccine).

Here is what I found out about this.  There are many countries working on something similar.

https://www.ft.com/content/b0814db0-c1ad-42de-81c0-b0a407746e1d

[mayleeman]

46 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

First off, Australia is mostly isolated and has done a great job overall of keeping the virus out or at great containment when it does pop up.  Your leaders are being very careful and rightly so.  Keep the beast at bay.

 

Shedding is a term in viral diseases meaning "release of active, infectious viral particles" and in the case of COVID (SARS-CoV-2) release of these infectious virus particles on respiratory droplets from your mouth and nose into the air.  The amount of viral shedding is the dose you are spreading around.  Some people for whatever reason have been seen to be Super Spreaders (or Super Shedders).  Even if they have no symptoms (asymptomatic).   In countries like where I live (USA) the people who track the virus infections after the fact (Tracers) have frequently linked infections back to single events (funerals, parties, bars) where one Super Spreader person infected a lot of people.

 

I think a bigger question may relate more to why people have different levels of shedding. Major symptoms are one thing, but it seems some nearly or totally asymptomatic carriers have been super-shedders, too. Do different people carry different levels of viral cells in their resp passages? Maybe expel droplets lighter than other people so they are aloft longer and reach others more readily?

Edited February 4, 2021 by mayleeman

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, mayleeman said:

 

I think a bigger question may relate more to why people have different levels of shedding. Major symptoms are one thing, but it seems some nearly or totally asymptomatic carriers have been super-shedders, too. Do different people carry different levels of viral cells in their resp passages? Maybe expel droplets lighter than other people so they are aloft longer and reach others more readily?

Perhaps it is early in their viral infections.  A lot of virus being produced and shed just prior to them developing COVID symptoms.  Happens with other viruses.  For asymptomatic shedders perhaps it is related to their pre-existing cellular immunity (T-cells and cytokines and interferons).  Nobody really understands yet. 

 

[joetop2467]

That’s because it wasn’t checked for not because it does not do so.  The new Astra Zeneca vaccine did check for it and it did prevent one from being able to pass virus.  I hate the way it is being portrayed now that the Pfizer and Moderna don’t keep one from being infectious.  It’s just a way of keeping people wearing a mask until they have a better way of proving people have been vaccinated.  If you pay close attention to the language you will always hear things like “it has not been shown to be effective in preventing one from passing the virus to another” rather than it prevents someone from passing it.  Of course it has not been shown because that’s not what they were looking for.  Doesn’t mean it won’t. 

[florisdekort]

3 hours ago, Nancycat said:

Vaccines are wonderful, but at this time there is no definitive evidence that the vaccines prevent transmission of Covid.

Wearing a mask protects others, 

I will be fully vaccinated in less than a week and will continue to wear a mask to protect those who are not.

Bingo. People who have been vaccinated still get Covid. They just have very mild or no symptoms. There is nothing suggesting that they don’t spread the virus. Europe and the world are headed straight for a third wave if vaccinated people are going to run around the place like crazy. Thank you for doing the right thing. Posts on here like “I’ve had my vaccine; where’s the cruise ship?” display an incredibly selfish attitude that really annoys me. 

[zanderblue]

Very high rates of uptake being reported here in Scotland so far!

 

98% for care home residents

89% for care home workers

90% for over 80’s living in community

 

[Ken the cruiser]

16 hours ago, malony33 said:

By the time cruise lines that depart out of U.S. ports again, won't proof of vaccine inoculation be a requirement to sail? And if this is so, will masks and social distancing still be mandatory?

 

Does anyone know if any lines have made a statement about this?

 

I hope all who are reading this are well.

 

Here's what Princess just posted on Feb 3 regarding CDC's latest guidance regarding cruise ship travel.

 

Notice to Passengers Regarding Advice from US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on COVID-19 and Cruise Ship Travel - Princess Cruises

[D C]

57 minutes ago, zanderblue said:

Very high rates of uptake being reported here in Scotland so far!

 

98% for care home residents

89% for care home workers

90% for over 80’s living in community

 

Good!  Though I'm surprised that 80+ is only 90%

[nocl]

On 2/2/2021 at 11:10 PM, zanderblue said:

Any of our experts able to comment on this information? I’m thinking the reduced transmission claim is positive.

Keep in mind that the levels of neutralizing antibodies may or may not translate to more efficacy once a certain level has been reached.  

 

The swab data would seem to indicate that the vaccine is preventing infection and transmission. However, this is a look at the general population and not a controled study, even a lab study.

 

Would like to see a study that focuses on comparing the PCR with indepth serology to look for mechanism for looking for infection as well as shedding. This is not just for AZ but for all of the vaccines

[nocl]

On 2/3/2021 at 5:43 AM, wrk2cruise said:

 

I heard this during a news conference with our NC HHS secretary yesterday.  I found it interesting as our state seems like it has figured out how to distribute as for the last 2 weeks they have been able to get pretty much 100% of available doses administered each week with almost 300,000 one week.  

 

The program being run by Walgreens and CVS for Long term care seems to be way behind although I'm happy my 92 year old MIL in memory care has had 2 doses of Moderna.  From the charts you can see they are holding back second doses here which I think is good as it seems everyone is getting an appointment for second dose when receiving the first.

 

It seems to me that dividing up the allocations between the state health department, Long Term Care program and now retail pharmacy will make it even harder on citizens to locate available doses.

 

One of the major reasons with Long term care is the number of workers and even residents that are refusing the vaccination.  One statistic I saw indicated that only 1/3 of the workers are taking the vaccination and only 2/3 of residents.

[zanderblue]

46 minutes ago, D C said:

Good!  Though I'm surprised that 80+ is only 90%

Yeah, they have reported the 80+ number is being looked at. They have said they believe the 80+ cohort size may be overestimated, so expect that 90% reported may actually be a little low. 

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, zanderblue said:

Very high rates of uptake being reported here in Scotland so far!

 

98% for care home residents

89% for care home workers

90% for over 80’s living in community

 

In my experience, I have always found you Scots to be very pragmatic.

[phoenix_dream]

4 minutes ago, nocl said:

One of the major reasons with Long term care is the number of workers and even residents that are refusing the vaccination.  One statistic I saw indicated that only 1/3 of the workers are taking the vaccination and only 2/3 of residents.

I've read/heard similar statistics.  That is extremely frustrating for so many reasons, primary being the unfair impact on others. For example, if they won't vaccinate, the homes won't be able to open up their facilities to allow family to visit.  That doesn't even get to the facts of trying to achieve herd immunity with so many people who could vaccinate now refusing.  And so much of this has to do with racial disparity in the homes, and mistrust of the vaccines.  I won't even dig into that here for fear of inadvertently offending someone when that is certainly  not my intent. 

[TeeRick]

14 minutes ago, nocl said:

One of the major reasons with Long term care is the number of workers and even residents that are refusing the vaccination.  One statistic I saw indicated that only 1/3 of the workers are taking the vaccination and only 2/3 of residents.

Well they can require the workers to be vaccinated as a condition of employment.  Not sure what to do if a resident refuses (or their family member proxy refuses).

[UnorigionalName]

50 minutes ago, nocl said:

Keep in mind that the levels of neutralizing antibodies may or may not translate to more efficacy once a certain level has been reached.  

 

The swab data would seem to indicate that the vaccine is preventing infection and transmission. However, this is a look at the general population and not a controled study, even a lab study.

 

Would like to see a study that focuses on comparing the PCR with indepth serology to look for mechanism for looking for infection as well as shedding. This is not just for AZ but for all of the vaccines

 

PCR positivity may not be an accurate proxy for infectivity.

 

There's some evidence (clinical and viral culture) that the extended PCR positivity after initial infection may last well past when people are potentially infectious.

 

If you want to do a real rigorous study on post-vaccine, probably want to at least correlate with viral culture.

[Porky55]

5 hours ago, TeeRick said:

First off, Australia is mostly isolated and has done a great job overall of keeping the virus out or at great containment when it does pop up.  Your leaders are being very careful and rightly so.  Keep the beast at bay.

 

Shedding is a term in viral diseases meaning "release of active, infectious viral particles" and in the case of COVID (SARS-CoV-2) release of these infectious virus particles on respiratory droplets from your mouth and nose into the air.  The amount of viral shedding is the dose you are spreading around.  Some people for whatever reason have been seen to be Super Spreaders (or Super Shedders).  Even if they have no symptoms (asymptomatic).   In countries like where I live (USA) the people who track the virus infections after the fact (Tracers) have frequently linked infections back to single events (funerals, parties, bars) where one Super Spreader person infected a lot of people.

Thank you TeeRick - asked and answered. Hence the need for masks and constant hand washing as who knows whom is a Super Spreader. 👍

[nocl]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

Well they can require the workers to be vaccinated as a condition of employment.  Not sure what to do if a resident refuses (or their family member proxy refuses).

According to the labor relations board their employer can make it a requirement.  I would also expect that a long term care facility could probably make it a condition of entry for patients.

 

Pretty easy if they refuse they can be terminated.  Those with religious and disability objections may be accomendated, if possible.  Hard to see hands on personnel in a long term care facility being able to be accomendated.

 

Of course for many, they may have already been previously infected and feel that they do not need the vaccine. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by nocl

[larry_s_taco]

I thought this was an interesting, if superficial article. I was surprised that the the Biden administration is already looking at some type of vaccine passport. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/04/travel/coronavirus-vaccine-passports.html?auth=link-dismiss-google1tap&smid=fb-nytimes

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by larry_s_taco
Typo

[JL87]

2 hours ago, nocl said:

According to the labor relations board their employer can make it a requirement.  I would also expect that a long term care facility could probably make it a condition of entry for patients.

 

Pretty easy if they refuse they can be terminated.  Those with religious and disability objections may be accomendated, if possible.  Hard to see hands on personnel in a long term care facility being able to be accomendated.

 

Of course for many, they may have already been previously infected and feel that they do not need the vaccine. 

I'm fully vaccinated and most of my employees are, but according to our legal advice mandating vaccines under an EUA could be a problem. FDA approval not so much. Any insight into this conundrum?

[Ken the cruiser]

J&J officially filled for an FDA EUA today - yay!!!

 

J&J applies for emergency authorization, FDA expected to greenlight in coming weeks (nbcnews.com)

[4774Papa]

1 hour ago, larry_s_taco said:

I thought this was an interesting, if superficial article. I was surprised that the the Biden administration is already looking at some type of vaccine passport. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/04/travel/coronavirus-vaccine-passports.html?auth=link-dismiss-google1tap&smid=fb-nytimes

 

 

 

 

If the vaccine passport is to be accessed by a smart phone, my wife and I would need to consider changing our smart phone provider.  We have a very inexpensive service ($50 per month for both of us) and we only use our phones when we travel within the USA or when the  power goes off at home (which  is rare).  We might have to upgrade to a service that works internationally.

[Host Jazzbeau]

7 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

If the vaccine passport is to be accessed by a smart phone, my wife and I would need to consider changing our smart phone provider.  We have a very inexpensive service ($50 per month for both of us) and we only use our phones when we travel within the USA or when the  power goes off at home (which  is rare).  We might have to upgrade to a service that works internationally.

After almost losing DW in the crowd around the Ponte Vecchio (and thereby missing the ship's bus back to Livorno), we immediately upgraded our service to allow international calls when necessary.  Verizon doesn't charge anything for activating the option, and $10 a day only when you use it.  So for $20 we could have had peace of mind – priceless!

 

But I expect that the vaccine passport will be a document in your electronic wallet, right on the phone.  No need for service to bring it onto the screen.

[mimbecky]

5 hours ago, nocl said:

One of the major reasons with Long term care is the number of workers and even residents that are refusing the vaccination.  One statistic I saw indicated that only 1/3 of the workers are taking the vaccination and only 2/3 of residents.

I am hoping this has more to do with mRna being a new platform than vaccinations themselves.  Maybe this number will go up (and more people in general will be favorable) once more traditional platforms become available.  J&J is just around the corner and maybe AZ and Novavaxx.  Me? I'll take what they give me, and happily so.

[nocl]

49 minutes ago, JL87 said:

I'm fully vaccinated and most of my employees are, but according to our legal advice mandating vaccines under an EUA could be a problem. FDA approval not so much. Any insight into this conundrum?

I would normally agree concerning the EUA.  I don't know if that has ever been tested in court though.  I do not know of anything being mandated while under EUA except maybe one case in the military. 

 

However, look up the Labor Relations Board Ruling.  They did not distinguish between fully approved and approved under EUA in their ruling Only that a company had the responsibility to provide a safe work environment and could mandate.

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, mimbecky said:

I am hoping this has more to do with mRna being a new platform than vaccinations themselves.  Maybe this number will go up (and more people in general will be favorable) once more traditional platforms become available.  J&J is just around the corner and maybe AZ and Novavaxx.  Me? I'll take what they give me, and happily so.

My ex works in a LTC facility, back office, but it was mandatory at her place of employment.  They could refuse it, but...