trishbk Posted July 15, 2020 #1 Share Posted July 15, 2020 It was announced today that both these ships have been sold to an unnamed buyer. Both ships are in the Red Sea right now. I cannot believe that Holland and other cruise lines are continuing to sell cruises for ships that they have earmarked to sell either announced privately or behind corporate doors. And then if you cancel after full deposit is paid you only get a FCC. Just doesn’t seem right or ethical. Sent from my iPhone using Forums 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare kazu Posted July 15, 2020 #2 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I haven’t seen an announcement. Link please? If they were just sold then I suspect the cruises will either be cancelled or an offer to change to a different ship and itinerary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BSR Posted July 15, 2020 #3 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I have a cruise booked on the Maasdam. I wonder if it will be canceled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rothbury Posted July 15, 2020 #4 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I'll wait until I see something official but if true I guess we can kiss our November cruise good-bye. Planned to cancel anyway but I think I'll see how HAL handles this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BSR Posted July 15, 2020 #5 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 minute ago, rothbury said: I'll wait until I see something official but if true I guess we can kiss our November cruise good-bye. Planned to cancel anyway but I think I'll see how HAL handles this. I will wait to see something official. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare VMax1700 Posted July 15, 2020 #6 Share Posted July 15, 2020 13 minutes ago, trishbk said: It was announced today Who announced it? Carnival Corp? The (unnamed) Buyer? Third Party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjcox9 Posted July 15, 2020 #7 Share Posted July 15, 2020 This is all I find on this, not official Carnival though. https://www.cruisehive.com/holland-americas-maasdam-and-veendam-cruise-ships-expected-to-be-sold/40700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigi1977 Posted July 15, 2020 #8 Share Posted July 15, 2020 We were told on a cruise last year (cruise of Vikings) that ALL HAL ships are for sale 100% of the time for the right price. It has been published that the Carnival Corp is looking to get rid of the old less efficient ships - Veendam and Maasdam would both fall in this category. So no surprise. I would guess that they have continued to sell cruises on these ships because they have no idea if and when they will sell. Just like we were offered other cruises when they stopped sailing to Cuba, folks booked will be offered something else with likely some ‘perks’. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare VMax1700 Posted July 15, 2020 #9 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Just found this online.https://www.tradewindsnews.com/cruise-and-ferry/carnival-to-sell-one-costa-cruises-two-holland-ships/2-1-842327 It states 'according to brokers' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare richwmn Posted July 15, 2020 #10 Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, tjcox9 said: This is all I find on this, not official Carnival though. https://www.cruisehive.com/holland-americas-maasdam-and-veendam-cruise-ships-expected-to-be-sold/40700 the link here says "expected to sell", so someone's idea not an official announcement In addition, Princendam was sold and then leased back for a year to complete itineraries that were scheduled although that is not as certain now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BSR Posted July 15, 2020 #11 Share Posted July 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, tjcox9 said: This is all I find on this, not official Carnival though. https://www.cruisehive.com/holland-americas-maasdam-and-veendam-cruise-ships-expected-to-be-sold/40700 Thanks for the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanF65 Posted July 15, 2020 #12 Share Posted July 15, 2020 From this link it appears they are in preliminary negotiations, it sounds like they are selling ships that have no debt or that aren't pledged for other debt https://www.tradewindsnews.com/cruise-and-ferry/carnival-to-sell-one-costa-cruises-two-holland-ships/2-1-842327 86 ships up for collateral Carnival, which has $10bn in liquidity, put 86 ships up as senior-bond collateral and plans to sell 19 remaining debt-free vessels, brokers said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJzink Posted July 15, 2020 #13 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I have Maasdam booked for Alaska 2021, was cancelled for Sept. 2020. Will be interesting to see how they cover this. I do not want to sail on one of the larger ships. I know she was old, but I spent more days on her than any other, and enjoyed each one. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare rafinmd Posted July 15, 2020 #14 Share Posted July 15, 2020 BIG difference between "Expected to be sailed" and Have been Sailed" Much ado about nothing. Roy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YXU AC*SE Posted July 15, 2020 #15 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) The transcript from the analysts' call last week was interesting ... source: https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2020/07/10/carnival-corp-plc-ccl-q2-2020-earnings-call-transc.aspx Tim Conder -- Wells Fargo -- Analyst Okay. Okay. And on the ships that you're divesting, any commentary that you can give to us as to whether the ultimate buyer, will the majority of those be outright scrapped or will some of those ships stay in the global industry fleet? Arnold W. Donald -- President and Chief Executive Officer Well, first of all, we don't scrap ships, we recycle them. So, any ships that aren't sold into a market that doesn't directly interfere with our existing markets, which is what we would do. Our sales are basically into uses that are different than our uses for the ships in the markets that we're in. Then those will go for recycling. David, I don't know if you want to add any additional color? Go ahead. David Bernstein -- Chief Financial Office and Chief Accounting Officer Yes. Of the 13, it's just a few that are recycled. The majority are -- the intention we're told is to use them for a variety of purposes, just a few recycled at this point. Tim Conder -- Wells Fargo -- Analyst So, on recycle, just to be clear, should we view it as -- let me rephrase it may be those that would transport customers for cruise related services or hotel related services versus washing machines? Arnold W. Donald -- President and Chief Executive Officer Yes. Jamie Rollo -- Morgan Stanley -- Analyst Yes, thank you. My first question is just on the order book, please. It doesn't sound like that you're planning any cancellations of what sort of order? Or is it just a delay to your order book? Thank you. Arnold W. Donald -- President and Chief Executive Officer I didn't quite hear the question, David. If you did, please go ahead. David Bernstein -- Chief Financial Office and Chief Accounting Officer Yes, it sounded like I kind of -- but Jamie, you were talking about any cancellations on the order book versus delay. There were no cancellations what we were just talking about for the each ship was a delay. On average, you're probably talking about five-month delay for each of the 14 ships plus two Seabourn expedition ships that are on order. Arnold W. Donald -- President and Chief Executive Officer I think the most important thing there is going down to five versus nine between now and '22 though. It looks like you had a follow-on, Jamie. Go ahead. Jamie Rollo -- Morgan Stanley -- Analyst Well, it was the same question really. Just wondering if you're planning any cancellations, I mean nothing so far, but are you in discussions with the yards about canceling any of those ships. Arnold W. Donald -- President and Chief Executive Officer No, we're not in discussions about canceling ships. We're in discussions with the yards about timing of deliveries and whatnot, but not on cancelling ships. Again we're far enough out what we've talked about already that hopefully by then and we're planning to be directionally back at the capacity that we would have available at that point in time actually being deployed globally. And at that point, again, the new ships are just far more efficient. We would regulate with demand by, again disposing of less efficient ships rather than trying to avoid bringing on the new ships. The timing of that is important to us, but we would like to have the new ships. As for 'recycling', Alang has been a favourite ... but it appears Aliağa, TK is a new one, according to this report: https://www.tradewindsnews.com/cruise-and-ferry/turkish-recyclers-to-feast-on-royal-caribbean-and-carnival-cruiseships/2-1-842522, which might explain ships staging in Cyprus (aside from the halloumi of course?) Scott. Edited July 15, 2020 by YXU AC*SE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRG Posted July 15, 2020 #16 Share Posted July 15, 2020 14 minutes ago, YXU AC*SE said: Arnold W. Donald -- President and Chief Executive Officer I think the most important thing there is going down to five versus nine between now and '22 though. Nine to five it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oofroggie Posted July 15, 2020 #17 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I am doing 7 back to backs on the Veendam starting Jan 3 out of Tampa for a total of 96 days. It will be interesting to see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Ellen Posted July 15, 2020 #18 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) The Maasdam and Veendam were built earlier than this press release of the sale indicates. While the ships aren’t named, the tonnage and year built are given. https://www.bonheur.no/latest-news1?SelectedRelease=http://publish.ne.cision.com/Release/GetDetail/7CDB812CA7F9D5C5 Edited July 15, 2020 by Mary Ellen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruiserBruce Posted July 15, 2020 #19 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 hour ago, richwmn said: the link here says "expected to sell", so someone's idea not an official announcement In addition, Princendam was sold and then leased back for a year to complete itineraries that were scheduled although that is not as certain now. Agreed..."sold" doesn't mean it is leaving the fleet tomorrow. These things, under normal circumstances, can take a while. So jumping to the conclusion that HAL is doing something unethical is, @trishbk at minimum, hasty, if not flat out wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandalay1903 Posted July 15, 2020 #20 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Mary Ellen said: The Maasdam and Veendam were built earlier than this press release of the sale indicates. While the ships aren’t named, the tonnage and year built are given. https://www.bonheur.no/latest-news1?SelectedRelease=http://publish.ne.cision.com/Release/GetDetail/7CDB812CA7F9D5C5 Thanks for linking to this news release. It also states, "Delivery is expected to take place in the UK during September 2020." Edited July 15, 2020 by Mandalay1903 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YXU AC*SE Posted July 15, 2020 #21 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Mary Ellen said: The Maasdam and Veendam were built earlier than this press release of the sale indicates. While the ships aren’t named, the tonnage and year built are given. https://www.bonheur.no/latest-news1?SelectedRelease=http://publish.ne.cision.com/Release/GetDetail/7CDB812CA7F9D5C5 Oh, there shall be rending of garments and gnashing of teeth I fear. ms Rotterdam 1997 61,849 ms Amsterdam 2000 62,735 Scott. Edited July 15, 2020 by YXU AC*SE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandalay1903 Posted July 15, 2020 #22 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, YXU AC*SE said: Oh, there shall be rending of garments and gnashing of teeth I fear. There undoubtedly will be. Amsterdam and Rotterdam are also reported as being on their way toward Suez per Vesselfinder.com Edited July 15, 2020 by Mandalay1903 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcand1923 Posted July 15, 2020 #23 Share Posted July 15, 2020 At one time, weren't these two vessels considered the Joint Flagships of HAL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Ellen Posted July 15, 2020 #24 Share Posted July 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Mandalay1903 said: There undoubtedly will be. Amsterdam and Rotterdam are also reported as being on their way toward Suez per Vesselfinder.com Yes. To get to their expected layup in Cyprus the shortest route is through the Suez Canal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YXU AC*SE Posted July 15, 2020 #25 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 minute ago, lcand1923 said: At one time, weren't these two vessels considered the Joint Flagships of HAL? Yes. Still are AFAIK. Scott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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