Donald says to early for protocols

[FiredogCruiser]

Broward County, the same county that tried blaming the USCG for closing off port access to returning cruise ships, just mandated masks to be worn in homes. Needless to say, they can't cite any science supporting that arbitrary decision. Yet these are the same county officials that will be determining whether or not Port Everglades will be open to cruise ships, with mostly likely the same lack of science to support their decisions. No matter what the CDC says or the cruise line procedures are, these locals will have a go/no go authority. And are apparently free to be as arbitrary in their decision making as they want to be. With no national standard enforcement mechanism, I would hate to be in a cruise line executive position trying to get all of these local port authorities to agree on even noon versus midnight.

 

Shoreside pandemic mitigation is, as I said, not a cruise industry responsibility. Any municipality that seeks to attract large volumes of people spending leisure dollars has a responsibility to have plans in place for their adequate protection. Many are very willing to impose all types of non-resident taxes to gain visitor dollars (resort taxes, hotel bed taxes, etc.) yet are unwilling to spend the money on required emergency management standards to protect those recruited visitors. Whether personnel, equipment, stockpiles, training, or for that matter coordination of effort between agencies and mitigation providers, visitors are left to fend for themselves, or in the case of the CONVID-19 virus refused access to assistance of any kind. (I will never spend another disposable dollar in Broward County again, and I have cruised from there, and stayed in hotels there, and ate in restaurants there, and flown in and out of there in the past.) Cruising is no different in regards to planning necessities than large sporting events, high rise towers, airports or any other venue with large population densities. So why is the industry being treated any differently? I maintain chiefly because of the negative publicity that has been heaped upon the industry for years. And I also maintain the reason for that is found in the foreign flag issue.

 

No one has ever suggested that 100% of a cruise ship population would arrive in a port requiring critical care unit hospitalization, or 4,000 ventilators per ship, or the necessity to transport 4,000 patients by ambulance. Yet that unrealistic expectation has been cited in numerous news articles, opinion pieces, and social media postings by people with no understanding of emergency management procedures, standards or guidelines, as a reason not only for closing ports, but keeping them closed. Right now there is massive efforts to cover up deficiencies, by blaming a novel virus for inadequate stockpiles, emergency operations plans, personnel and equipment.

 

So, while we are all carrying on about what is the cruise lines doing to protect everyone, and I won't question the validity of those question, I also want to know what the port cities are doing to bring their emergency response capabilities up to standards, and no one is even talking about that.

[ObstructedView2]

42 minutes ago, FiredogCruiser said:

 

Broward County, the same county that tried blaming the USCG for closing off port access to returning cruise ships, just mandated masks to be worn in homes.

 

 

Wrong, false & misleading. Sheesh! Broward County ‘mask-at-home’ order only applies to GUESTS IN SOMEONE'S HOME. Look it up. Get your facts straight!

Or phone the Broward County Sheriff office @: (954) 765-4321

 

 

 

🤔

Edited July 21, 2020 by ObstructedView2

[chengkp75]

39 minutes ago, FiredogCruiser said:

Please show the science supporting that arbitrary decision.

 

I don't know of any "science" supporting that, but it is what we practice on a routine basis, when someone comes to our home and we are not sure what their exposure has been recently.  It's common sense.

[SLCfirsttimer]

46 minutes ago, FiredogCruiser said:

Please show the science supporting that arbitrary decision.

 

The science has shown that this virus is easily spread via airborne transmission. That is why the CDC and other health organizations have recommended social distancing from people who are not part of your immediate household, and in cases where you can't socially distance, wearing a mask. If anyone is coming to my house and I do not have a high level of comfort as to their exposure, I ask them to wear a mask or we sit outside where we can distance.

[Doggielover68]

10 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I shouldn't go down this rabbit hole and feed this, but I will.  What nefarious conspiracy is the CDC hiding?  What is their "slant", if they are not "fully objective"?  What is the rationale for wanting to "ruin the cruise industry"?

Exactly. I listen in on CDC calls all of the time for work and the overall vibe I get is that the number one priority is public health. They are trying to prevent people from dying. They have no reason to ruin the travel industry.

[BlerkOne]

On 7/20/2020 at 7:53 AM, jimbo5544 said:

 

Thoughts?

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23256-early-for-protocols-for-u-s-cruising-says-donald.html

 

Fake? ^^^^ ???

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/carnival-ceo-cruises-could-return-214926070.html

 

 

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

All in a point of reference.  In your link, he is talking about Aida in Europe, which you know we cannot partake in.  In mine he is talking about every other Carnival line and ship.  We can call it fake, but sadly it is not.

He does mention CCL's world conference which would include the US  and CDC, I assume.

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

He does mention CCL's world conference which would include the US  and CDC, I assume.

I am waiting with baited breath, signed up after it was announced.  Hope they delve in deep. 

[Doggielover68]

3 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

They are doing a particularly lousy job of the last two.  I care not for portions pilote washing of hands....I want to see results for both.

The CDC is not responsible for people who continue to travel, not wear masks, host covid parties, etc. The American people are the ones to blame. 

[jimbo5544]

48 minutes ago, Doggielover68 said:

The CDC is not responsible for people who continue to travel, not wear masks, host covid parties, etc. The American people are the ones to blame. 

did anyone suggest they were?  Their job is to assist the country in getting out of the mess.  For the record, the VAST majority of people that got it, did none of those things.  

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by jimbo5544

[cruisequeen4ever]

What I got from the article is that he doesn’t think cruising is happening for a while, so it’s a waste of time to put all this effort into a plan that could easily be outdated by the time it needs to go into effect. 

[jimbo5544]

15 hours ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

What I got from the article is that he doesn’t think cruising is happening for a while, so it’s a waste of time to put all this effort into a plan that could easily be outdated by the time it needs to go into effect. 

You are correct, the agenda folks tie everything in a bow that suits them.  

[chengkp75]

15 hours ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

What I got from the article is that he doesn’t think cruising is happening for a while, so it’s a waste of time to put all this effort into a plan that could easily be outdated by the time it needs to go into effect. 

Yes, they are saying that they are willing to wait until the pandemic blows itself out, before resuming cruising from the US.

23 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

You are correct, the agenda folks tie everything in a bow that suits them.  

I don't know, but my opinion of good leadership would have done the following with the CDC requirements, back when they were first put out:

 

1.  What do we need to do to meet these requirements?  What is a likely cost?

2.  What equipment do we need to obtain for our plan to meet those requirements?  What is the cost?  What is the timeline for delivery?  What is the timeline for installation?

3.  Submit a plan with the proposed means to meet each requirement, with cost and timeline included.

4.  Start the procurement process for the long lead time equipment, slowly ordering to match the number of ships that you propose to initiate sailing with.

5.  Build a corporate training manual for all crew, with training tailored specifically to each position, and extra training for supervisors

6.  The most stringent CDC requirement will be those that have the longest lead time, and so if the requirements ease over time, cancel or don't order additional equipment, but the plan is there if things go south again.

7.  The easiest requirements will typically be changes to training or operations, so these can be proposed for the worst case scenario, and scaled back (or have "levels" of remediation in the manual) or scaled up, depending on how the world situation is, and what CDC requirements are at the time the particular ship is scheduled to restart.  Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

 

This way, you have flexible plans in place (and hopefully approved, since they meet the worst case requirements) for whenever you are cleared to resume operations, and which can be used in future (if not needed at this time) (knowing that, while rare, these kinds of things are not one time happenings.

 

Just me, but I feel that Carnival is continuing their corporate strategy of "kicking the can down the road", just like they did with environmental compliance.

[ontheweb]

9 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, they are saying that they are willing to wait until the pandemic blows itself out, before resuming cruising from the US.

I don't know, but my opinion of good leadership would have done the following with the CDC requirements, back when they were first put out:

 

1.  What do we need to do to meet these requirements?  What is a likely cost?

2.  What equipment do we need to obtain for our plan to meet those requirements?  What is the cost?  What is the timeline for delivery?  What is the timeline for installation?

3.  Submit a plan with the proposed means to meet each requirement, with cost and timeline included.

4.  Start the procurement process for the long lead time equipment, slowly ordering to match the number of ships that you propose to initiate sailing with.

5.  Build a corporate training manual for all crew, with training tailored specifically to each position, and extra training for supervisors

6.  The most stringent CDC requirement will be those that have the longest lead time, and so if the requirements ease over time, cancel or don't order additional equipment, but the plan is there if things go south again.

7.  The easiest requirements will typically be changes to training or operations, so these can be proposed for the worst case scenario, and scaled back (or have "levels" of remediation in the manual) or scaled up, depending on how the world situation is, and what CDC requirements are at the time the particular ship is scheduled to restart.  Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

 

This way, you have flexible plans in place (and hopefully approved, since they meet the worst case requirements) for whenever you are cleared to resume operations, and which can be used in future (if not needed at this time) (knowing that, while rare, these kinds of things are not one time happenings.

 

Just me, but I feel that Carnival is continuing their corporate strategy of "kicking the can down the road", just like they did with environmental compliance.

There really is a difference in "kicking the can down the road" with environmental compliance and complying with the CDC requirements. For a long time, they could do the former and just take the fines as a cost of doing business. Not dealing with the CDC has a totally different consequence; they are not sailing.

 

As for your what they should have done, why are you just an engineer instead of an executive in charge of operations?😊

[glentally]

On 7/20/2020 at 8:53 AM, jimbo5544 said:

 

Thoughts?

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23256-early-for-protocols-for-u-s-cruising-says-donald.html

Germany is sailing  no ports just days at sea

[jimbo5544]

26 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, they are saying that they are willing to wait until the pandemic blows itself out, before resuming cruising from the US.

I don't know, but my opinion of good leadership would have done the following with the CDC requirements, back when they were first put out:

 

1.  What do we need to do to meet these requirements?  What is a likely cost?

2.  What equipment do we need to obtain for our plan to meet those requirements?  What is the cost?  What is the timeline for delivery?  What is the timeline for installation?

3.  Submit a plan with the proposed means to meet each requirement, with cost and timeline included.

4.  Start the procurement process for the long lead time equipment, slowly ordering to match the number of ships that you propose to initiate sailing with.

5.  Build a corporate training manual for all crew, with training tailored specifically to each position, and extra training for supervisors

6.  The most stringent CDC requirement will be those that have the longest lead time, and so if the requirements ease over time, cancel or don't order additional equipment, but the plan is there if things go south again.

7.  The easiest requirements will typically be changes to training or operations, so these can be proposed for the worst case scenario, and scaled back (or have "levels" of remediation in the manual) or scaled up, depending on how the world situation is, and what CDC requirements are at the time the particular ship is scheduled to restart.  Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

 

This way, you have flexible plans in place (and hopefully approved, since they meet the worst case requirements) for whenever you are cleared to resume operations, and which can be used in future (if not needed at this time) (knowing that, while rare, these kinds of things are not one time happenings.

 

Just me, but I feel that Carnival is continuing their corporate strategy of "kicking the can down the road", just like they did with environmental compliance.

I have no insight in this, just my thoughts.  My post you quoted was really in reference to what another post was.  That said, it is interesting the group Carnival is gathering for their summit this coming week.  If these people are the experts they say, maybe Carnival has an idea of what they will say (not even sure that is the motive of getting together), and that is why they are where they are at now.  I also think it is very interesting that the cdc has opened up to the public, some might think that is a good thing and shows signs of hope, I am not so optimistic.   
 

I get your points, not sure if it is kicking the can down the road, or they have seen down the road already.  Ona semi related topic, I see that 10 crew members gathering for the Aida start tested positive when they arrived in Germany and had tested positive before leaving Manila.  

Edited July 26, 2020 by jimbo5544

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

As for your what they should have done, why are you just an engineer instead of an executive in charge of operations?😊

Because I could never function in an office situation.  Done it a few times, temporarily, for specific projects, and found that I really wanted to go postal on most of the office after a week or so.  And, its not real difficult to propose something when I don't have any skin in the game, and it ain't my money to burn.  I've benefited from a lot of good leadership over the years.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

I have no insight in this, just my thoughts.  My post you quoted was really in reference to what another post was.  That said, it is interesting the group Carnival is gathering for their summit this coming week.  If these people are the experts they say, maybe Carnival has an idea of what they will say (not even sure that is the motive of getting together), and that is why they are where they are at now.  I also think it is very interesting that the cdc has opened up to the public, some might think that is a good thing and shows signs of hope, I am not so optimistic.   
 

I get your points, not sure if it is kicking the can down the road, or they have seen down the road already.  Ona semi related topic, I see that 10 crew members gathering for the Aida start tested positive when they arrived in Germany and had tested positive before leaving Manila.  

I just think this group that Carnival is bringing together should have been done months ago.

 

I think you mean the crew tested negative in Manila, that is my understanding.  And, note that they were brought on charter flights.  And this point shows the limitations of relying on testing, due to the extreme contagiousness of this virus.

[ober134]

On 7/22/2020 at 9:54 PM, jimbo5544 said:

did anyone suggest they were?  Their job is to assist the country in getting out of the mess.  For the record, the VAST majority of people that got it, did none of those things.  

 

Perhaps not, but they certainly came in contact with someone who did...

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

I just think this group that Carnival is bringing together should have been done months ago.

 

I think you mean the crew tested negative in Manila, that is my understanding.  And, note that they were brought on charter flights.  And this point shows the limitations of relying on testing, due to the extreme contagiousness of this virus.

I did mean that and I agree, in all probability.  The other possibility is faulty testing on either end.  Oh, one more thing, thanks for the etailed response above, I neglected to say that in the previous reply.

Edited July 26, 2020 by jimbo5544

[jimbo5544]

33 minutes ago, ober134 said:

Perhaps not, but they certainly came in contact with someone who did...

I do not know that to be true either.  I agree that is the most likely transmission scenario, but def not the only one.

[Joebucks]

I find it interesting that the grocery store can open with social distancing stickers on the floor and plexiglass. They are taking it seriously.

 

Cruise ships have implemented constant sanitization, force hand washing, taking temperature, reduced capacity, and every other measure that every other business is taking. Dragging feet

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Because I could never function in an office situation.  Done it a few times, temporarily, for specific projects, and found that I really wanted to go postal on most of the office after a week or so.  And, its not real difficult to propose something when I don't have any skin in the game, and it ain't my money to burn.  I've benefited from a lot of good leadership over the years.

Yes, I figured you were not the "office type", but it does seem that the office types should really look to you and others who have similar experiences for ideas that have a chance to work.

[glrounds]

3 hours ago, Joebucks said:

I find it interesting that the grocery store can open with social distancing stickers on the floor and plexiglass. They are taking it seriously.

 

Cruise ships have implemented constant sanitization, force hand washing, taking temperature, reduced capacity, and every other measure that every other business is taking. Dragging feet

 

The plexiglass ONLY protects THEM from US . . . 🙂

 

[cruizergal70]

Do yoy really think the Carnival management have not been developing protocols? Of course they have. They are just keeping quiet since it's too early to say publicly. 

 

Why so much anger? Cruising isn't life. Cruising is just a vacation.  Let the management,  CLIA, CDC handle it. It will get handled in due time.