Federal Register :: Request for Information Related to Cruise Ship Planning and Infrastructure, Resumption of Passenger Opera

[63 Super Sport]

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/07/21/2020-15812/request-for-information-related-to-cruise-ship-planning-and-infrastructure-resumption-of-passenger

 

Here your chance to have your voice heard. There are 28 questions you may response to.

Written comments must be received on or before September 21, 2020.

You may submit comments, identified by Docket No. CDC-2020-0087 by any of the following methods listed below. CDC does not accept comment by email.

• Federal eRulemaking Portal: https://www.regulations.gov. Follow the instructions for submitting comments.
• Mail: Maritime Unit, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 1600 Clifton Road NE, MS V18-2, Atlanta, GA 30329.

 

Instructions: All submissions received must include the agency name and Docket Number. All relevant comments received will be posted without change to https://www.regulations.gov, including any personal information provided. For access to the docket to read background documents or comments received, go to https://www.regulations.gov.

 

 

[resistk]

Those are all tough questions, many without good answers.

[npcl]

Keep in mind that to be considered relevant the comment must address one or more questions, general comments are not considered relevant.

 

There are two questions that might interest folks that being members of the cruising public might they might provide input

 

24. Because of the economic costs associated with cruising, some cruise ship passengers may be reluctant to cancel travel plans if they become ill or are exposed to COVID-19 or may try to hide symptoms of illness. Should cruise ship operators fully refund or provide incentives to passengers that:

a. Are denied boarding due to COVID-like illness symptoms, confirmed infection, or known exposure?

b. are denied boarding due to coming from high-incidence geographic areas?

c. request last-minute cancellations due to COVID-19 concerns?

25. Due to the costs associated with seeking medical care on board, and the likelihood that sick passengers will be isolated and their travel companions quarantined for the remainder of their voyage, how should cruise ship operators encourage passengers to notify the medical center when they experience COVID-19 symptoms?

[voljeep]

5 minutes ago, npcl said:

25. Due to the costs associated with seeking medical care on board, and the likelihood that sick passengers will be isolated and their travel companions quarantined for the remainder of their voyage, how should cruise ship operators encourage passengers to notify the medical center when they experience COVID-19 symptoms?

moved to an open suite, mini, deluxe balcony, balcony if needed

 

unlimited room service including specialty restaurant menus

 

unlimited room service bar service ...

 

unlimited internet ( device provided if needed ) and phone calls

[geoherb]

I would hope that anyone experiencing symptoms would go to the medical center. It's the responsible thing to do. I did last December and ended up being quarantined for an upper respiratory infection on the CB. I got released after two nights--three consecutive acceptable temperature checks.

[caribill]

Also questions of interest:

4. What is the feasibility of conducting COVID-19 diagnostic testing using FDA-approved or authorized laboratory tests on board a cruise ship?

  b. How frequently should cruise ship operators test all passengers and crew?

9. Due to obstacles with commercial travel thus far, what pre-arrangements should cruise ship operators make with the airline industry to accept crew and passengers from ships not affected by COVID-19?

16. What steps should cruise ship operators take to prevent the introduction of COVID-19 onto ships after resuming passenger operations?

   f. Should cruise ship operators test passengers and crew pre-boarding? If yes, what should the testing protocol be?

  g. Should cruise ship operators transport and house passengers and crew denied boarding at the seaport to avoid exposing the public?

17. Should cruise ship operators plan to reduce passenger and crew loads to decrease the risk of transmission on board the ship?

18. Should cruise ship operators decrease the length of voyages and, if so, by how much?

19. Should cruise ship operators limit shore excursions?

20. Should cruise ship operators restrict the number of persons per room (e.g., maximum capacity of 2 adults per cabin)?

a. Should cruise ship operators be required to provide single-occupancy rooms with private bathrooms for crew after resuming passenger operations?

 

23. Should the cruise line industry immediately cancel cruise voyages if COVID-19 cases are identified on board or after disembarkation?

 

 

[whitecap]

I found the information from the Federal Registry interesting and some very good questions for the public to respond to however, what I found as interesting was the lack of questions regarding "passenger responsibility".  

 

If the cruise lines are going to be required to deny boarding to passengers who come from "high incident areas" and they provide proper notice to passengers of this rule, why would someone from a "high incident area" travel to and attempt boarding?

 

If a passenger becomes ill while onboard a cruise ship, is it not their personal responsibility to; report to the medical center; follow the medical advice/requirements issued by the medical center?

 

Doesn't every passenger have the "personal responsibility" to be prepared for unforeseen circumstances such as emergency/unexpected travel; medical cost for illness onboard ship?

 

I believe that there are a lot of procedures that the cruise industry can take to lessen the possibility of COVID, Noro, Flu, etc., including expanding room service menus but I don't think it should be the cruise industry's responsibility to provide a cabin change, computer or phone calls.  

 

Like everyone else, we are sitting back waiting to see what steps will be taken.

[Cruise Raider]

12 hours ago, caribill said:

Also questions of interest:

4. What is the feasibility of conducting COVID-19 diagnostic testing using FDA-approved or authorized laboratory tests on board a cruise ship?

  b. How frequently should cruise ship operators test all passengers and crew?

9. Due to obstacles with commercial travel thus far, what pre-arrangements should cruise ship operators make with the airline industry to accept crew and passengers from ships not affected by COVID-19?

16. What steps should cruise ship operators take to prevent the introduction of COVID-19 onto ships after resuming passenger operations?

   f. Should cruise ship operators test passengers and crew pre-boarding? If yes, what should the testing protocol be?

  g. Should cruise ship operators transport and house passengers and crew denied boarding at the seaport to avoid exposing the public?

17. Should cruise ship operators plan to reduce passenger and crew loads to decrease the risk of transmission on board the ship?

18. Should cruise ship operators decrease the length of voyages and, if so, by how much?

19. Should cruise ship operators limit shore excursions?

20. Should cruise ship operators restrict the number of persons per room (e.g., maximum capacity of 2 adults per cabin)?

a. Should cruise ship operators be required to provide single-occupancy rooms with private bathrooms for crew after resuming passenger operations?

 

23. Should the cruise line industry immediately cancel cruise voyages if COVID-19 cases are identified on board or after disembarkation?

 

 

 

It sounds more like they are attempting to explain to potential passengers why they have imposed their delay of operations ... and why they will continue to do so.  

I, for one, think that limiting the number of crew members to a cabin is a good start.  In order to do so, passenger capacity would also need to be limited, which I think it is a great idea to start things off.  Don't pack these ships full until there is a reliable treatment or vaccine in place.  Also, reduce the length of sailings as well as limiting the distance these ships can be from a port to disembark passengers that are sick.  This would eliminate all trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific sailings where the ship is at sea for 5 days or more.  I'm sure those itineraries won't stand a chance of sailing from a US port even if other shorter itineraries are allowed to resume.  

So, I was just reading an article that PCR testing delivering rapid results was developed in Singapore ... rapid being in a little over a half and hour.  So, rapid testing is definitely advancing.  

 

 

 

[voljeep]

4 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

9. Due to obstacles with commercial travel thus far, what pre-arrangements should cruise ship operators make with the airline industry to accept crew and passengers from ships not affected by COVID-19?

huh ?

[caribill]

5 hours ago, whitecap said:

 

 

If the cruise lines are going to be required to deny boarding to passengers who come from "high incident areas" and they provide proper notice to passengers of this rule, why would someone from a "high incident area" travel to and attempt boarding?

 

 

 

Because the definition of high incident area can change while you are on the way to the ship.

 

a) Cruise example. Earlier this year passengers on flights from USA to Australia changed planes in Beijing on a flight itinerary booked with the cruise line. By the time they landed in Sydney the cruise company said nobody from China, even someone who made a plane stop there, could board the ship. They were denied boarding.

 

b) Land example. New York State requires that people traveling to New York State from states which have been designated high incident states must be quarantined for two weeks upon arrival. The list of the impacted states changes almost daily. You could start your travel when your state is OK and find your state is not OK when you reach New York.

[whitecap]

2 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

Because the definition of high incident area can change while you are on the way to the ship.

 

a) Cruise example. Earlier this year passengers on flights from USA to Australia changed planes in Beijing on a flight itinerary booked with the cruise line. By the time they landed in Sydney the cruise company said nobody from China, even someone who made a plane stop there, could board the ship. They were denied boarding.

 

b) Land example. New York State requires that people traveling to New York State from states which have been designated high incident states must be quarantined for two weeks upon arrival. The list of the impacted states changes almost daily. You could start your travel when your state is OK and find your state is not OK when you reach New York.

These are fine examples.  Because designations are in fact changed daily, a traveler, making a trip from state to state or country to country should be prepared for such changes being placed at a moments notice.  One way would be to have trip insurance.  The cruise industry should not be held responsible for a passenger's travel expenses should the government change a designation or implement a new restriction suddenly.

Again, there are so many things that the cruise industry can put into place but we must not forget "personal responsibility".  

Everywhere you turn you see, "we are in this together", but I for one find more and more individuals who have made the decision not to wear a mask, not social distance, attend parties etc etc.  Some of us are in this together, some have simply chosen to ignore requirements/recommendations and thusly not only their own personal safety but the safety of others.  

[caribill]

17 minutes ago, whitecap said:

These are fine examples.  Because designations are in fact changed daily, a traveler, making a trip from state to state or country to country should be prepared for such changes being placed at a moments notice.  One way would be to have trip insurance.  The cruise industry should not be held responsible for a passenger's travel expenses should the government change a designation or implement a new restriction suddenly.

 

 

It may become hard to get independent trip insurance that covers Covid-19 travel problems especially when a government decree is in effect.

 

And to be covered by Princess' cancel for any reason insurance you would have had to book travel and hotels through Princess.

[whitecap]

15 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

It may become hard to get independent trip insurance that covers Covid-19 travel problems especially when a government decree is in effect.

 

And to be covered by Princess' cancel for any reason insurance you would have had to book travel and hotels through Princess.

Spoken like a true experienced traveler who prepares for as many possibilities as one can imagine.  

[Cruise Raider]

1 hour ago, voljeep said:

huh ?

 

I didn't write that.  As a matter of fact, I couldn't figure out what that meant either. 

[voljeep]

20 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

 

I didn't write that.  As a matter of fact, I couldn't figure out what that meant either. 

sorry, sometime when a quote is quoted wthin a quote ...  nevermind ...

 

but, yeah

[caribill]

14 hours ago, caribill said:

9. Due to obstacles with commercial travel thus far, what pre-arrangements should cruise ship operators make with the airline industry to accept crew and passengers from ships not affected by COVID-19?

 

 

 

1 hour ago, voljeep said:

huh ?

 

It is the CDC's wording, but I interpret it to mean that the cruise line must make sure passengers from non-affected ships have a way to fly home at the end of a cruise or if the cruise is interrupted.

 

Earlier this year, some ships without any cases of Covid-19 were not allowed to port or if they could port, in some cases no commercial flights were available to bring passengers home.

 

So the CDC is asking the cruise lines to make arrangements in advance to cover this possibility in the future.

[JimmyVWine]

What this tells me is that U.S. citizens are a loooooong ways away from stepping foot on a cruise ship.  Especially when the primary ports of departure are in FL and CA.  The "solution", (if you will), is not policies and procedures that cruise lines can implement to assist in making cruising safer.  The "solution" comes when Covid-19 is eradicated the way polio was.  Cruising attracts those who are most at risk.  According to CLIA, the average age is just under 50, and 51% of all cruisers are 50 or over.  Trying to make adjustments for refunds, medical center visits, testing, etc. is never going to change the fact that an outbreak on a cruise ship will be far more devastating than an outbreak almost anywhere else, other than a nursing home.   The cruise industry in general, and Princess in particular (after Diamond and Ruby headlines), is one outbreak away from extinction. They cannot afford to fail a second time.  There is simply no margin for error here.  Major League Baseball can shut down a second time, (and it may well happen with today's news) and still bounce back in the future.  But if the cruise industry re-opens and is then forced to shut down a second time, it's over.  O.V.E.R.  

[whitecap]

4 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

What this tells me is that U.S. citizens are a loooooong ways away from stepping foot on a cruise ship.  Especially when the primary ports of departure are in FL and CA.  The "solution", (if you will), is not policies and procedures that cruise lines can implement to assist in making cruising safer.  The "solution" comes when Covid-19 is eradicated the way polio was.  Cruising attracts those who are most at risk.  According to CLIA, the average age is just under 50, and 51% of all cruisers are 50 or over.  Trying to make adjustments for refunds, medical center visits, testing, etc. is never going to change the fact that an outbreak on a cruise ship will be far more devastating than an outbreak almost anywhere else, other than a nursing home.   The cruise industry in general, and Princess in particular (after Diamond and Ruby headlines), is one outbreak away from extinction. They cannot afford to fail a second time.  There is simply no margin for error here.  Major League Baseball can shut down a second time, (and it may well happen with today's news) and still bounce back in the future.  But if the cruise industry re-opens and is then forced to shut down a second time, it's over.  O.V.E.R.  

Well said!  And to eradicate this virus it will take every one to do their part.  Wear a mask, social distance, don't attend gatherings and when a vaccine is developed, get vaccinated!  

[cruisequeen4ever]

I wish this was done in survey format rather than comments. I’ll participate either way, though. I’m very pleased they’re giving the public a chance to speak.

[muffydawg]

Comment posted two days ago  in response to CDC RFC:

"Restaurants, hotels, airplanes, stores, hotels, etc. We are not tested to go in or on any of these. Stop targeting the Cruise industry and let us be adults"

 

 

 

[npcl]

2 hours ago, muffydawg said:

Comment posted two days ago  in response to CDC RFC:

"Restaurants, hotels, airplanes, stores, hotels, etc. We are not tested to go in or on any of these. Stop targeting the Cruise industry and let us be adults"

 

 

 

the response will get marked as non relevant since it does not address any of the asked questions. So while it might give you satisfaction it will not have an impact on the RFI.

 

 

[npcl]

4 hours ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

I wish this was done in survey format rather than comments. I’ll participate either way, though. I’m very pleased they’re giving the public a chance to speak.

the reason it was not done as a survey is that they are looking for actual responses to the question. Especially from CLIA and other industry organizations. It is no accident that it maps to many of the topics that the CDC indicated needed to be addressed in the cruise line plans.

 

It is probably no accident that the end date is after the RCL NCLH experts panel said that they would have results.