Ken at the beach Posted November 27, 2020 #1026 Share Posted November 27, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, twangster said: It was interesting to see this observation in the article. That doesn't bode well for Majesty or Empress. If they can't pawn off these two to Pullmantur because of balcony limitations which cruise line would ever want them? Someone involved with Pullmantur is pushing for more balconies presumably to earn higher revenue. That must have been a lesson learned why they didn't perform as well in the past. If Pullmantur is off the table and with no sign Majesty or Empress will carry passengers anytime soon Royal must be getting closer to reaching the conclusion they need to go to the beach. I’m surprised that they have lasted this long and that Royal with the second largest fleet has not yet shed any of the older ships while most other lines have. Personally I think more than just MJ and NE won’t return. Between NE or MJ surviving with another line I would bet on the NE. Her smaller size and ability to get into more unique ports gives her a leg up on the MJ Edited November 27, 2020 by Ourusualbeach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare twangster Posted November 27, 2020 #1027 Share Posted November 27, 2020 I wondering if they have secured debt using NE and MJ. They eluded to using Odyssey for this purpose but can't until they own her. Once Odyssey is handed over perhaps they'll place her on the those notes freeing up NE and MJ to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoopster95 Posted November 27, 2020 #1028 Share Posted November 27, 2020 58 minutes ago, twangster said: That doesn't bode well for Majesty or Empress. Was there ever any doubt? Why is there still doubt? 36 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said: I’m surprised that they have lasted this long and that Royal with the second largest fleet has not yet shed any of the older ships while most other lines have. Personally I think more than just MJ and NE won’t return. I stand by my thoughts that if RCG doesn't sail by Q2, Vision Class ships are in extreme risk/likely of being scrapped/transferred/sold/gone from the RCG fleet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken at the beach Posted November 27, 2020 #1029 Share Posted November 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Hoopster95 said: Was there ever any doubt? Why is there still doubt? Never any doubt in my mind that they wouldn’t sail again with Royal but I thought they would be on their way to Pulmantur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoopster95 Posted November 27, 2020 #1030 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Just now, Ourusualbeach said: Never any doubt in my mind that they wouldn’t sail again with Royal but I thought they would be on their way to Pulmantur. I hear you. My thoughts from day 1 have been very aggressive regarding ships. What I thought would happen to RCG, Carnival actually has taken the lead first by shedding her older vessels. Besides Vision Class, I always thought Radiance Class would also get shed to a new Pulmantur (or other start up) ... I was pretty close, I just didn't put 2+2 together with Celebrity's M Class. Like Twangster mentioned, there has to be a million nuances we are not privy to and can't possibly factor in... ie. financing of ships, registry, how their current bonds/loans are structured, etc etc etc etc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare twangster Posted November 27, 2020 #1031 Share Posted November 27, 2020 (edited) M class have solariums as well. Much better layout than Sovereign class and capacity over Empress. Better suites too. Pullmantur much be excited like it's Christmas morning. Plus azipods. Edited November 27, 2020 by twangster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyIL Posted November 27, 2020 #1032 Share Posted November 27, 2020 18 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said: Never any doubt in my mind that they wouldn’t sail again with Royal but I thought they would be on their way to Pulmantur. Guess I shouldn't book a shore excursion (@ 25% off) on Empress for my September Canada cruise, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare twangster Posted November 27, 2020 #1033 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Maybe Grandeur is still heading to Pullmantur after all. That would take them back up to 3 ships. If she does that closes the Pullmantur door a little more as far as NE and MJ are concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packercruising Posted November 28, 2020 #1034 Share Posted November 28, 2020 4 hours ago, NancyIL said: Guess I shouldn't book a shore excursion (@ 25% off) on Empress for my September Canada cruise, eh? We are kind of wondering that too. First, cdc is saying no cruises over 7 days, and who knows when Canada will open back up. Then there might not be any other ships sailing from Montreal. Not looking good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker19 Posted November 28, 2020 #1035 Share Posted November 28, 2020 6 hours ago, twangster said: They eluded to using Odyssey for this purpose but can't until they own her. Once Odyssey is handed over perhaps they'll place her on the those notes freeing up NE and MJ to move on. Odyssey is heavily mortgaged, so she would provide little in the way of collateral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare twangster Posted November 28, 2020 #1036 Share Posted November 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, Biker19 said: Odyssey is heavily mortgaged, so she would provide little in the way of collateral. Seems unfortunate they lied to investors then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker19 Posted November 28, 2020 #1037 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 minute ago, twangster said: Seems unfortunate they lied to investors then... The cash RCI put down to buy Odyssey, is more than NE and MJ are worth, so while heavily mortgaged, she could still provide more collateral than those two other ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbonner Posted November 28, 2020 #1038 Share Posted November 28, 2020 8 hours ago, Biker19 said: The cash RCI put down to buy Odyssey, is more than NE and MJ are worth, so while heavily mortgaged, she could still provide more collateral than those two other ships. RCI only has made a manageable "down payment", small in numbers when compared to the final due payment which typical is up to 80% of the total ship price. Lets cross fingers RCI can manage the full purchase next year........💣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker19 Posted November 28, 2020 #1039 Share Posted November 28, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Kbonner said: RCI only has made a manageable "down payment", small in numbers when compared to the final due payment which typical is up to 80% of the total ship price. Lets cross fingers RCI can manage the full purchase next year........💣 While the down payment may be small compared to the full price, that is still likely more than MJ and NE are worth put together. The purchase is guaranteed by the loans they took out (MW wouldn't start/keep building her without that) - the only thing that may be in doubt at this point is the official delivery date - she was floated out of Hall 6 today. Edited November 28, 2020 by Biker19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipeeinthepool Posted November 28, 2020 #1040 Share Posted November 28, 2020 16 hours ago, twangster said: It was interesting to see this observation in the article. That doesn't bode well for Majesty or Empress. If Pullmantur is off the table and with no sign Majesty or Empress will carry passengers anytime soon Royal must be getting closer to reaching the conclusion they need to go to the beach. As I pointed out awhile back this was obvious months ago when they they were used to transport crew back to Europe? Were, these the most efficient ships to sail across the Atlantic? No. Were they scheduled to sail in Europe? No. Were they the most comfortable ships for the crew? No. These ships were selected to transport the crew because Royal knew they were not sailing for Royal and likely headed to the beach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken at the beach Posted November 28, 2020 #1041 Share Posted November 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said: As I pointed out awhile back this was obvious months ago when they they were used to transport crew back to Europe? Were, these the most efficient ships to sail across the Atlantic? No. Were they scheduled to sail in Europe? No. Were they the most comfortable ships for the crew? No. These ships were selected to transport the crew because Royal knew they were not sailing for Royal and likely headed to the beach. If they were headed for the beach months ago then they would have been scrapped months ago or sitting parked off the beach awaiting their turn as other ships are instead of operating and burning cash monthly. I think the plan was that they would end up going to Pulmantur which now seems to possibly have changed with the announcement of Pulmantur using two Celebrity ships. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipeeinthepool Posted November 28, 2020 #1042 Share Posted November 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said: If they were headed for the beach months ago then they would have been scrapped months ago or sitting parked off the beach awaiting their turn as other ships are instead of operating and burning cash monthly. I think the plan was that they would end up going to Pulmantur which now seems to possibly have changed with the announcement of Pulmantur using two Celebrity ships. The beach is still TBD, but it's been obvious they're not sailing for Royal again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken at the beach Posted November 28, 2020 #1043 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Just now, ipeeinthepool said: The beach is still TBD, but it's been obvious they're not sailing for Royal again That was always pretty apparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare twangster Posted November 28, 2020 #1044 Share Posted November 28, 2020 If cruising had restarted months ago and this virus had magically gone away at this point they would be carrying guests on their scheduled cruises this week. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeMissSeaView Posted November 28, 2020 #1045 Share Posted November 28, 2020 I keep thinking that there is (or was) some plan for future use. I do not see Cuba as the plan unless it is a part of a plan. However, where the ships have been located the last few months makes me think that they will not return to North America. Never mind that Royal is still offering cruises on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Tree_skier Posted November 28, 2020 #1046 Share Posted November 28, 2020 6 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said: I think the plan was that they would end up going to Pulmantur which now seems to possibly have changed with the announcement of Pulmantur using two Celebrity ships. Is it possible that Pullmantur restarts with two ships from Celebrity and two ships from Royal? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare twangster Posted November 28, 2020 #1047 Share Posted November 28, 2020 42 minutes ago, Tree_skier said: Is it possible that Pullmantur restarts with two ships from Celebrity and two ships from Royal? Grandeur was supposed to go to Pullmantur AND Royal has nothing scheduled for her. She had one January cruise that qualified under the CDC 7 day limit so for all intents and purposes she has nothing current and no future with Royal. I could see them moving forward with the plan to move Grandeur to Pullmantur. She has balcony cabins too. IF that occurs I don't think they will restart Pullmantur with 5 ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken at the beach Posted November 28, 2020 #1048 Share Posted November 28, 2020 51 minutes ago, Tree_skier said: Is it possible that Pullmantur restarts with two ships from Celebrity and two ships from Royal? The big advantage that Empress has is her size...or lack of. It just depends on how much value Royal sees in those unique itineraries. She also had a huge refit when they brought her back. Majesty just doesn’t have anything going for it. Too big and no balconies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeMissSeaView Posted November 28, 2020 #1049 Share Posted November 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said: The big advantage that Empress has is her size...or lack of. It just depends on how much value Royal sees in those unique itineraries. She also had a huge refit when they brought her back. Majesty just doesn’t have anything going for it. Too big and no balconies. Let’s not forget that the Majesty’s two sister ships are currently being dismantled right now. That should be a sign that the future may be grim for the Majesty. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken at the beach Posted November 28, 2020 #1050 Share Posted November 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, WeMissSeaView said: Let’s not forget that the Majesty’s two sister ships are currently being dismantled right now. That should be a sign that the future may be grim for the Majesty. A class of ship that was so far ahead of its time when she was released that ultimately led to its downfall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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