Empress of The Seas

[Ourusualbeach]

23 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

It was interesting to see this observation in the article.  That doesn't bode well for Majesty or Empress.  If they can't pawn off these two to Pullmantur because of balcony limitations which cruise line would ever want them?  

 

Someone involved with Pullmantur is pushing for more balconies presumably to earn higher revenue.  That must have been a lesson learned why they didn't perform as well in the past.  

 

If Pullmantur is off the table and with no sign Majesty or Empress will carry passengers anytime soon Royal must be getting closer to reaching the conclusion they need to go to the beach.  

I’m surprised that they have lasted this long and that Royal with the second largest fleet has not yet shed any of the older ships while most  other lines have.  Personally I think more than just MJ and NE won’t return.

 

Between NE or MJ surviving with another line I would bet on the NE.  Her smaller size and ability to get into more unique ports gives her a leg up on the MJ

Edited November 27, 2020 by Ourusualbeach

[twangster]

I wondering if they have secured debt using NE and MJ.  They eluded to using Odyssey for this purpose but can't until they own her.  Once Odyssey is handed over perhaps they'll place her on the those notes freeing up NE and MJ to move on.  

[Hoopster95]

58 minutes ago, twangster said:

That doesn't bode well for Majesty or Empress. 

 

Was there ever any doubt? Why is there still doubt?

 

36 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

I’m surprised that they have lasted this long and that Royal with the second largest fleet has not yet shed any of the older ships while most  other lines have.  Personally I think more than just MJ and NE won’t return.

 

I stand by my thoughts that if RCG doesn't sail by Q2, Vision Class ships are in extreme risk/likely of being scrapped/transferred/sold/gone from the RCG fleet.

[Ourusualbeach]

1 minute ago, Hoopster95 said:

Was there ever any doubt? Why is there still doubt?

Never any doubt in my mind that they wouldn’t sail again with Royal but I  thought they would be on their way to Pulmantur.

[Hoopster95]

Just now, Ourusualbeach said:

Never any doubt in my mind that they wouldn’t sail again with Royal but I  thought they would be on their way to Pulmantur.

 

I hear you. My thoughts from day 1 have been very aggressive regarding ships. What I thought would happen to RCG, Carnival actually has taken the lead first by shedding her older vessels. Besides Vision Class, I always thought Radiance Class would also get shed to a new Pulmantur (or other start up) ...

I was pretty close, I just didn't put 2+2 together with Celebrity's M Class.

 

Like Twangster mentioned, there has to be a million nuances we are not privy to and can't possibly factor in... ie. financing of ships, registry, how their current bonds/loans are structured, etc etc etc etc

[twangster]

M class have solariums as well.  Much better layout than Sovereign class and capacity over Empress.  Better suites too.  Pullmantur much be excited like it's Christmas morning.  

 

Plus azipods.  

Edited November 27, 2020 by twangster

[NancyIL]

18 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Never any doubt in my mind that they wouldn’t sail again with Royal but I  thought they would be on their way to Pulmantur.

 

Guess I shouldn't book a shore excursion (@ 25% off) on Empress for my September Canada cruise, eh?

[twangster]

Maybe Grandeur is still heading to Pullmantur after all.  That would take them back up to 3 ships. 

 

If she does that closes the Pullmantur door a little more as far as NE and MJ are concerned. 

[packercruising]

4 hours ago, NancyIL said:

 

Guess I shouldn't book a shore excursion (@ 25% off) on Empress for my September Canada cruise, eh?

We are kind of wondering that too. First, cdc is saying no cruises over 7 days, and who knows when Canada will open back up. Then there might not be any other ships sailing from Montreal. Not looking good.

 

[Biker19]

6 hours ago, twangster said:

They eluded to using Odyssey for this purpose but can't until they own her.  Once Odyssey is handed over perhaps they'll place her on the those notes freeing up NE and MJ to move on.  

Odyssey is heavily mortgaged, so she would provide little in the way of collateral.

[twangster]

13 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

Odyssey is heavily mortgaged, so she would provide little in the way of collateral.

 

Seems unfortunate they lied to investors then...

[Biker19]

1 minute ago, twangster said:

 

Seems unfortunate they lied to investors then...

The cash RCI put down to buy Odyssey, is more than NE and MJ are worth, so while heavily mortgaged, she could still provide more collateral than those two other ships.

[Kbonner]

8 hours ago, Biker19 said:

The cash RCI put down to buy Odyssey, is more than NE and MJ are worth, so while heavily mortgaged, she could still provide more collateral than those two other ships.

RCI only has made a manageable "down payment", small in numbers when compared to the final due payment which typical is up to 80% of the total ship price.

Lets cross fingers RCI can manage the full purchase next year........💣

[Biker19]

5 minutes ago, Kbonner said:

RCI only has made a manageable "down payment", small in numbers when compared to the final due payment which typical is up to 80% of the total ship price.

Lets cross fingers RCI can manage the full purchase next year........💣

While the down payment may be small compared to the full price, that is still likely more than MJ and NE are worth put together. The purchase is guaranteed by the loans they took out (MW wouldn't start/keep building her without that) - the only thing that may be in doubt at this point is the official delivery date - she was floated out of Hall 6 today.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Biker19

[ipeeinthepool]

16 hours ago, twangster said:

 

It was interesting to see this observation in the article.  That doesn't bode well for Majesty or Empress.  If Pullmantur is off the table and with no sign Majesty or Empress will carry passengers anytime soon Royal must be getting closer to reaching the conclusion they need to go to the beach.  

 

As I pointed out awhile back this was obvious months ago when they they were used to transport crew back to Europe?  Were, these the most efficient ships to sail across the Atlantic? No.  Were they scheduled to sail in Europe? No.  Were they the most comfortable ships for the crew? No.  These ships were selected to transport the crew because Royal knew they were not sailing for Royal and likely headed to the beach.

[Ourusualbeach]

5 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

As I pointed out awhile back this was obvious months ago when they they were used to transport crew back to Europe?  Were, these the most efficient ships to sail across the Atlantic? No.  Were they scheduled to sail in Europe? No.  Were they the most comfortable ships for the crew? No.  These ships were selected to transport the crew because Royal knew they were not sailing for Royal and likely headed to the beach.

If they were headed for the beach months ago then they would have been scrapped months ago or sitting parked off the beach awaiting their turn as other ships are instead of operating and burning cash monthly. I think the plan was that they would end up going to Pulmantur which now seems to possibly have changed with the announcement of Pulmantur using two Celebrity ships.  

[ipeeinthepool]

3 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

If they were headed for the beach months ago then they would have been scrapped months ago or sitting parked off the beach awaiting their turn as other ships are instead of operating and burning cash monthly. I think the plan was that they would end up going to Pulmantur which now seems to possibly have changed with the announcement of Pulmantur using two Celebrity ships.  

 

The beach is still TBD, but it's been obvious they're not sailing for Royal again

[Ourusualbeach]

Just now, ipeeinthepool said:

 

The beach is still TBD, but it's been obvious they're not sailing for Royal again

That was always pretty apparent. 

[twangster]

If cruising had restarted months ago and this virus had magically gone away at this point they would be carrying guests on their scheduled cruises this week.  

[WeMissSeaView]

I keep thinking that there is (or was) some plan for future use.  I do not see Cuba as the plan unless it is a part of a plan.  However, where the ships have been located the last few months makes me think that they will not return to North America.  Never mind that Royal is still offering cruises on them.

[Tree_skier]

6 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

 I think the plan was that they would end up going to Pulmantur which now seems to possibly have changed with the announcement of Pulmantur using two Celebrity ships.  

Is it possible that Pullmantur restarts with two ships from Celebrity and two ships from Royal?

[twangster]

42 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

Is it possible that Pullmantur restarts with two ships from Celebrity and two ships from Royal?

 

Grandeur was supposed to go to Pullmantur AND Royal has nothing scheduled for her.  She had one January cruise that qualified under the CDC 7 day limit so for all intents and purposes she has nothing current and no future with Royal. 

 

I could see them moving forward with the plan to move Grandeur to Pullmantur.  She has balcony cabins too.

 

IF that occurs I don't think they will restart Pullmantur with 5 ships.   

[Ourusualbeach]

51 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

Is it possible that Pullmantur restarts with two ships from Celebrity and two ships from Royal?

The big advantage that Empress has is her size...or lack of.  It just depends on how much value Royal sees in those unique itineraries.  She also had a huge refit when they brought her back.  Majesty just doesn’t have anything going for it.  Too big and no balconies. 

[WeMissSeaView]

4 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

The big advantage that Empress has is her size...or lack of.  It just depends on how much value Royal sees in those unique itineraries.  She also had a huge refit when they brought her back.  Majesty just doesn’t have anything going for it.  Too big and no balconies. 

Let’s not forget that the Majesty’s two sister ships are currently being dismantled right now.  That should be a sign that the future may be grim for the Majesty.

[Ourusualbeach]

13 minutes ago, WeMissSeaView said:

Let’s not forget that the Majesty’s two sister ships are currently being dismantled right now.  That should be a sign that the future may be grim for the Majesty.

A class of ship that was so far ahead of its time when she was released that ultimately led to its downfall.