Staffing a NCL Ship

[SeaShark]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Link for what?  There are cruise line training centers in the Philippines, Indonesia, Singapore, and India, owned/supported by all the major lines.  The number of cruise line crew is about 250,000 for all ships, representing about 180-190,000 onboard positions, and the remainder being those on vacation.

 

Cruise Critic even did an article about one of those training centers recently

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=3195

 

 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, drvmywifecrzy said:

 

How do you know this data?

The info about the training centers has been known to those of us in the industry for years, and a quick google search of "cruise ship training academies" lists the places and who uses them.  The statistics for number of crew jobs comes from CLIA.  And, by the way, the 185,000 cruise ship crew positions pales in comparison to the 1.6 million other merchant mariner positions around the world on today's ships.

[PelicanBill]

Another challenge is timing.  The cruise lines need to know when they will be allowed to said to re-hire, hire, train, and travel crews to ships where they will need a short time onboard for final orientation and training - all timed as closely to first sailing so they can not over-spend.  Lots of holding going on right now...I bet they are trying to maintain lists of those who want to return, as that's fastest, and doing some advance planning for the larger scale recruiting they may need to do.

 

[JLUrsini]

Excuse me, but entertainment IS essential to the cruise ships.  My daughter is an NCL entertainment manager and I can assure you that NCL does not consider the entertainment staff, "non-essential".  Can you imagine a cruise without entertainment?  Would you, as a passenger, want to take a cruise without entertainment?  By the way, in the NCL world, "entertainment staff" includes everyone, including youth staff, recreation and musicians, i.e. anything that doesn't feed or house passengers.  Bingo, Trivia, etc.  The entertainment onboard a ship also serves the purpose of drawing guests away from the busy restaurants and balancing the distribution of people so that restaurants are not overrun. You would be hard-pressed to find an NCL General Manager who does not consider the entertainment department to be essential to the running of the Restaurant department and overall Hotel Operation. However, the question posed is a good one, i.e. how long will it take to staff an NCL ship from the entertainment perspective?   It is a question that NCL staff currently are working on.  Let's take it from the traditional stage cast perspective (aside from youth staff and rec staff).  Many of the entertainers (dancers and singers) may have gone on to other gigs so new casts will have to be put together.  They usually rehearse for 6 weeks on land before joining a ship; but rehearsing together in an enclosed space entails COVID issues; many of the entertainers come from other countries and just getting them together may be an issue.  It may be that NCL may have to go to all individual acts, rather than groups of singers and dancers.  There are many, many logistical issues that NCL is dealing with right now regarding getting the entertainment staff back.  Now let's look at getting the food and housekeeping staff -- who come from around the world -- together.  So much depends on the individual countries' rules and getting crew from their respective countries to the ships.  Right now, that's a crap shoot.

[chengkp75]

13 minutes ago, JLUrsini said:

Excuse me, but entertainment IS essential to the cruise ships. 

Essential crew is determined by statute, not by what they add to the passengers' experience.  Essential crew positions are those needed to safely operate the ship, and are limited to deck and engine departments, and not even all of those are deemed "essential".

[JLUrsini]

10 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Essential crew is determined by statute, not by what they add to the passengers' experience.  Essential crew positions are those needed to safely operate the ship, and are limited to deck and engine departments, and not even all of those are deemed "essential".

That is correct.  Essential crew are currently with each ship. So the original question wouldn't make sense if the statutory definition was what the question was about.  The original poster wasn't asking about the technically "essential" crew.  Clearly, they were asking about how long to get the crew together that would be necessarily to start cruising again.  

[hloakes]

While entertainment is a part of the cruise experience, I do not see it as essential. Quite frankly, a lot of the shows I have seen on the ships are not all that great. If they had no big shows it would not make a difference to me.

 

I would think finding individual entertainers or ensembles for the clubs and possibly putting together shows with acts would be fairly easy. Putting together a fullcast, stage show would be a lot more difficult. 

[JLUrsini]

12 minutes ago, hloakes said:

I would think finding individual entertainers or ensembles for the clubs and possibly putting together shows with acts would be fairly easy. Putting together a fullcast, stage show would be a lot more difficult. 

Many cruisers would disagree with you about the importance of entertainment.  However, you are correct that finding individual entertainers -- referred to as "guest entertainers" in the industry -- may well be easier, or at least safer than putting together an ensemble cast to do multiple shows.  However, that solution posts a whole separate set of issues, including # of individuals, countries they come from, quarantining between gigs unless they are under much longer contracts than in the past.  Please understand that the NCL entertainers have, in the past, come from all over the world.  What you may think are singers and dancers and entertainers from the US, are usually from dozens of different countries, mostly not from the US.  The logistics are mind-numbing.

[Outerdog]

8 hours ago, JLUrsini said:

That is correct.  Essential crew are currently with each ship.

 

Not all of them.

 

There are minimum safe manning requirements for operation of the ship -- without passengers. The addition of passengers requires additional essential crew in the deck and engine departments well before they get down the list to the the entertainment folks.

[DGP1111]

8 hours ago, JLUrsini said:

Excuse me, but entertainment IS essential to the cruise ships.  My daughter is an NCL entertainment manager and I can assure you that NCL does not consider the entertainment staff, "non-essential". 

 

 

. . . how long will it take to staff an NCL ship from the entertainment perspective?   It is a question that NCL staff currently are working on.  Let's take it from the traditional stage cast perspective (aside from youth staff and rec staff).  Many of the entertainers (dancers and singers) may have gone on to other gigs so new casts will have to be put together.  They usually rehearse for 6 weeks on land before joining a ship; but rehearsing together in an enclosed space entails COVID issues; many of the entertainers come from other countries and just getting them together may be an issue.  

 

I don't know if I've been onboard one of the ships your daughter has filled that role, but please do still tell her Thank You from a frequent passenger who does enjoy some good entertainment during the cruise week. 😊

The issue about 'Essential' has already been addressed.

 

I feel for those contracted entertainment troupes who arrived onboard just before the cooties shut the industry down (Epic being a prime example). Your daughter may be able to provide some info on the status of those ships that had contracts with Cirque Productions/Cirque Dreams, as I was under the impression that overall contract for the NCL ships only ran through 2020.  The way those particular shows got put together onboard was a bit bizarre to me anyway, but these unique times now create an even bigger challenge. 

Burn The Floor routinely recycles casts, and I think it would/could demand the least amount of overall re-design, but any rehearsal right now is basically impossible.  That sucks for them and us. 

The studios in Tampa where a few cruise lines rehearse production shows has been totally dead for quite a while.  

 

 

2 hours ago, JLUrsini said:

 . . . However, you are correct that finding individual entertainers -- referred to as "guest entertainers" in the industry -- may well be easier, or at least safer than putting together an ensemble cast to do multiple shows. 

 

The logistics are mind-numbing.

 

And it is, unfortunately, creating a horrible situation in SO many areas of entertainment.  

Broadway, Las Vegas, every major orchestra, Cirque du Soleil, regional/community theatre, local solo acts, etc.

I hate it SO bad for them all.

 

.

 

[sanger727]

16 hours ago, JLUrsini said:

Many cruisers would disagree with you about the importance of entertainment.  However, you are correct that finding individual entertainers -- referred to as "guest entertainers" in the industry -- may well be easier, or at least safer than putting together an ensemble cast to do multiple shows.  However, that solution posts a whole separate set of issues, including # of individuals, countries they come from, quarantining between gigs unless they are under much longer contracts than in the past.  Please understand that the NCL entertainers have, in the past, come from all over the world.  What you may think are singers and dancers and entertainers from the US, are usually from dozens of different countries, mostly not from the US.  The logistics are mind-numbing.

 

Agree. There is a zero percent chance that I would take a cruise if I knew going into it that there was no entertainment staff. I could live with shows and music from guest entertainers as opposed to the big production shows, but it still wouldn't be the same. Everyone has the things they value about the ships. I would be totally fine with a ship with no casino, no bingo, no trivia, no pools, no night club... but no evening entertainment would be a deal breaker. I don't recall the exact percentage of the cruise budget that goes to entertainment, but I recall from a documentary that it's significant. So clearly, NCL sees this as an important item to cruisers as well. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by sanger727

[DCGuy64]

I would still sail on a cruise ship with no entertainment staff, albeit reluctantly. If it were a choice between no cruise at all or a cruise with no entertainment, I'd definitely take the latter. To me, the minimums are food and drink, and a cabin, that's it. No ports, no entertainment, no pool, no gym? Especially if it had to be that way at first, for safety reasons? I wouldn't be terribly excited about it, but I'd absolutely still sail. But that's just me. My opinion may not be shared by others, and that's fine.

[podgeandrodge]

7 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I would still sail on a cruise ship with no entertainment staff, albeit reluctantly. If it were a choice between no cruise at all or a cruise with no entertainment, I'd definitely take the latter. To me, the minimums are food and drink, and a cabin, that's it. No ports, no entertainment, no pool, no gym? Especially if it had to be that way at first, for safety reasons? I wouldn't be terribly excited about it, but I'd absolutely still sail. But that's just me. My opinion may not be shared by others, and that's fine.

Yep, me too, I'd rather be on a ship out at sea without entertainment than being at home!  That's not to say that entertainment isn't a hugely important part of the normal experience of course, just that I'd do anything to get on a ship right now!

[SeaShark]

On 7/31/2020 at 9:25 AM, SeaShark said:

My concern in all this is that given the length of this "pause" and the uncertainty behind its end date, many crew might just decide to give up on cruise ship work and move on to other jobs. Then when things finally do start up again, we're going to see ships with a greater percentage of rookie crew members than we have seen in the past.

 

Letting all that experience walk away is going to cause the service experience to suffer.

 

Hmmmmm...I posted this a month ago and was called out for it.

 

Now we have this:

 

http://www.crew-center.com/nclh-cruise-ships-go-cool-lay-manning

 

"In an article published a couple of days ago entitled “Cruise Lines might lose the most valuable asset, the crew” we warned about the danger that many experienced crew members might decide to seek for a permanent job back home and not return on cruise ships. The long suspension of cruises might result in a loss of a great talent and experience these crew members gained during all years spent working on the cruise ships. Even after cruises resume it will take years for the cruise lines to get back to the level before the Covid-19 crisis."

[beerman2]

3 hours ago, SeaShark said:

 

Hmmmmm...I posted this a month ago and was called out for it.

 

Now we have this:

 

http://www.crew-center.com/nclh-cruise-ships-go-cool-lay-manning

 

"In an article published a couple of days ago entitled “Cruise Lines might lose the most valuable asset, the crew” we warned about the danger that many experienced crew members might decide to seek for a permanent job back home and not return on cruise ships. The long suspension of cruises might result in a loss of a great talent and experience these crew members gained during all years spent working on the cruise ships. Even after cruises resume it will take years for the cruise lines to get back to the level before the Covid-19 crisis."

There are many things posted month(s) ago that ring true today. There are still many convinced that cruising will start in November.

 

With NCLH putting their ships in cool layup with minimal crew, it certainly appears the battle with CDC isn't any closer.

 

Even with the cruise lines saying they have enough money to last far into 2021, they very well could be positioning themselves for bankruptcy/reorganization.

 

 

[Sue Do-Over]

On 7/31/2020 at 9:47 AM, DCGuy64 said:

I never said there were NO other jobs, but from my conversations with crew members over the years, it's clear to me that there are many more people than jobs to be had, hence why some of them choose to do cruise ship work.

 

In doing research about Filipino nurses in the US, I learned that the Philippine islands have almost no industry of their own.  They absolutely rely on repatriated money (sent home by cruise, hospitality and healthcare workers) as a major part of their economy.  It is so vital that there are many many nursing schools and hospitality training schools. 

 

Cruise line workers apply (and pay a fee to) an agency that provides health screenings, vaccinations, teaches basic English, and provides specific skill training -- running laundry or dish-washing machines, kitchen skills, etc. - before being hired by a cruise line.  These agencies promise x number of crew in each job category each month in a steady flow "ready to work".   A waiter we came to know over a few cruises told us that he had been on a very low-carb diet while at home between contracts to make sure his pre-diabetes didn't keep him from passing the health screen.

 

My question... all those workers at home have had their contracts expire.  New contracts haven't been signed yet, until sail dates are firmed up.  Do you think they'll stagger the contract LENGTHS to make sure the whole crew doesn't age-out at the same time?  How'd you like to be running the kitchen and lose your whole team at once?

[Trimone]

Anyone that’s been on a ships first few cruises, will know it takes time for a Crew to gel, working together as a team.

I would give it a few months when cruising commences before going on one.

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, Sue Do-Over said:

My question... all those workers at home have had their contracts expire.  New contracts haven't been signed yet, until sail dates are firmed up.  Do you think they'll stagger the contract LENGTHS to make sure the whole crew doesn't age-out at the same time?  How'd you like to be running the kitchen and lose your whole team at once?

Just to clarify a point.  New contracts are not signed until the crew arrive on the ship.  The contract ends the day the crew member leaves the ship.  The "contract" is what is known in the rest of the maritime world as "articles of employment", and are an agreement between the crew member and the Captain, acting as representative of the company for the term of employment.

 

Yes, I would suspect that some contracts will be shortened, and some lengthened to keep from having 2000 crew change out on the same day.

[ipeeinthepool]

1 hour ago, Trimone said:

Anyone that’s been on a ships first few cruises, will know it takes time for a Crew to gel, working together as a team.

I would give it a few months when cruising commences before going on one.

 

That's ok.  As long as I have my balcony, someplace to to get food, a bar and a pool, I'll enjoy my cruise.  Anyone else looking forward to sea days by the pool?

[farmersfight]

5 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

Anyone else looking forward to sea days by the pool?

 

Me. With the CC handle that you have, I hope you stay by the pool. 😂

 

Btw, what part of Michigan are you in? As you can see by my avatar, I'm over in Muskegon.

Edited September 4, 2020 by farmersfight

[farmersfight]

On 8/5/2020 at 11:31 AM, DCGuy64 said:

I would still sail on a cruise ship with no entertainment staff, albeit reluctantly. If it were a choice between no cruise at all or a cruise with no entertainment, I'd definitely take the latter. To me, the minimums are food and drink, and a cabin, that's it.

 

Yeah, I agree with that. But, it also depends on the type of "drink" you are talking about. Another required minimum would be the bars that serve the "adult drinks". Cabin would be required for the aftermath.

[ipeeinthepool]

3 hours ago, farmersfight said:

 

Me. With the CC handle that you have, I hope you stay by the pool. 😂

 

Btw, what part of Michigan are you in? As you can see by my avatar, I'm over in Muskegon.

I'm from the Birmingham area

[farmersfight]

2 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

I'm from the Birmingham area

 

Looks like you have something in common with Mr. Cartmell from the Silver Bullet Band.

 

Bob Seger Lyrics

 

Mr. Drew Abbott from Royal Oak, Michigan on guitar
While I'm at it,
Mr. Chris Campbell right here on bass from Plymouth, Michigan
Charlie Martin on the drums from Detroit, Michigan
Tommy Cartmell on saxophone from Birmingham, Michigan
Robin Robbins on keyboards from Grosse Point, Michigan
Silver Bullet yeah
I'm Bob Seger I'm from Ann Arbor, Michigan

[PelicanBill]

On 8/4/2020 at 12:34 PM, JLUrsini said:

Excuse me, but entertainment IS essential to the cruise ships.  My daughter is an NCL entertainment manager and I can assure you that NCL does not consider the entertainment staff, "non-essential".  Can you imagine a cruise without entertainment?  Would you, as a passenger, want to take a cruise without entertainment?  By the way, in the NCL world, "entertainment staff" includes everyone, including youth staff, recreation and musicians, i.e. anything that doesn't feed or house passengers.  Bingo, Trivia, etc.  The entertainment onboard a ship also serves the purpose of drawing guests away from the busy restaurants and balancing the distribution of people so that restaurants are not overrun. You would be hard-pressed to find an NCL General Manager who does not consider the entertainment department to be essential to the running of the Restaurant department and overall Hotel Operation. However, the question posed is a good one, i.e. how long will it take to staff an NCL ship from the entertainment perspective?   It is a question that NCL staff currently are working on.  Let's take it from the traditional stage cast perspective (aside from youth staff and rec staff).  Many of the entertainers (dancers and singers) may have gone on to other gigs so new casts will have to be put together.  They usually rehearse for 6 weeks on land before joining a ship; but rehearsing together in an enclosed space entails COVID issues; many of the entertainers come from other countries and just getting them together may be an issue.  It may be that NCL may have to go to all individual acts, rather than groups of singers and dancers.  There are many, many logistical issues that NCL is dealing with right now regarding getting the entertainment staff back.  Now let's look at getting the food and housekeeping staff -- who come from around the world -- together.  So much depends on the individual countries' rules and getting crew from their respective countries to the ships.  Right now, that's a crap shoot.

 

I can't find the thread where this was discussed before... but one thing a lot of people agreed on is that the first step is to recruit performers "ready to perform" - piano players, guitar players, bands, who can be hired almost the week before and show up ready to perform.  Stage shows will need land side rehearsals and may or may not get the nod in time to do that before sailings start - not to mention the risks brought up above that may require a "bubble" for the performers to be safe in rehearsal and on ship.  Stage shows just might be delayed a few weeks.  I will be happy with a reggae band and my unlimited drink package.

[bobsfamily]

As always thanks to chengkp75 for his insightful comments!

As for entertainment the casino and the random band/single player is fine for us.  The stage shows could be turned into cabins for all I care... different stuff for different folks is what makes a cruise. 

 

Casino, bars (+food) and a good cabin is all I need for cruise, ports would be nice but I would go on a cruise to nowhere right now.