The Reality

[clo]

9 hours ago, KmomChicago said:

Life is what you make of it.

Your entire post is spot on and thanks. I've seen people here write "I must cruise." No, they MUST not but even thinking that way is self-destructive IMO. We hope we travel intl. again, maybe some day. But we can have a great rest of life - we're in our 70's - if the rest of our travel is in the US - and hopefully Canada will let us in some day.

[getting older slowly]

I think too many are looking for the rainbow.......   ( the pot is empty... awaiting refund ) 

 

since the begin... things have simply got worse.....

( case numbers in the world are continuing upwards ) ( second waves what about third and fourth )

 

Myself.... have lost interest in cruising or even thinking about planning another one.....

 

I honestly can't even see the ferry trip from victoria to tasmania   

open this year or early next year.... for overnight interstate travel.... ( want to take car with us ).

 

And i am surprised at the number of people still planing cruises......

really having no idea of what the cruising experience will be like  in a post Convid-19 world.

 

I will now step off the soap box.. ( carefully  older people should be carefully climb things...lol )

 

So  it is So long and thanks for all the fish... Don

[KmomChicago]

20 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

In my opinion, the smart -- but also the tough -- thing to do right now is to stay home, avoid exposure to others, and bide our time. Someone posted that if we do that, cruise lines may very well be bankrupt, and that may be true. But is cruising worth risking your life (or the lives of others) over? Once this is all over and done, new opportunities will arise. Be patient. Or if you can't be patient, at least travel in some way that doesn't put other people at risk.

 

 

 

Of course it's not worth risking your life.  The risk of a cruise should be no worse than the risk of just living your normal everyday life.

 

The cruise lines are going to go bankrupt a lot faster when every cruise that does sail equals at least one case of COVID.  Heck, even if one in ten or one in a hundred has a case, this will continue to erode confidence among passengers and authorities. They are far better off to wait, protect the infrastructure, i.e. keep the best ships in working order, and lay off absolutely everyone else than to try to sail without being able to assure safety.  I don't really know how you put an industry like this into a hold pattern, reduce expenses to nearly zero while keeping the machinery ready to go someday again, but that's what they need to do.

 

Likewise the restart needs to be very, slow, ramped up very carefully. Which it will have to anyway as they can't get tens of thousands of crew back from all over the world at the snap of a finger. Not to mention food orders, port stops, and all the other issues taken care of. The nightmare is massive.

[KmomChicago]

14 hours ago, clo said:

Your entire post is spot on and thanks. I've seen people here write "I must cruise." No, they MUST not but even thinking that way is self-destructive IMO. We hope we travel intl. again, maybe some day. But we can have a great rest of life - we're in our 70's - if the rest of our travel is in the US - and hopefully Canada will let us in some day.

 

Thanks clo.  I hope you enjoy your road trips. Maybe time to buy a pickup and small camper to do so? We have the start of Route 66 right near us and while I visit the Gemini Giant regularly already, it would be a blast to do the whole trip.  I have always wanted to visit Banff in Canada, and also I haven't yet seen the California redwoods nor Crater Lake nor the Columbia River Gorge, or, oddly since I've been to a few far flung corners of the earth, oddly I have not visited our big hole in the ground out in the desert southwest, whatzit called again? No, not Meteor Crater but I'd like to take a gander at that too. The really big one. Can't remember. 😆. 

 

The USA is rich in culture and landscapes and even climates including my least favorite one, desert.  I have often thought it would be quite easy to spend a lifetime of travel on road trips right here. One couple mentioned being in Ohio. I have a coworker who one year did his family vacation just driving around Ohio! The Christmas Story House, the Longaberger basket building, the Wright Patterson Air Force Museum, NFL and Rock and Roll Halls of Fame, Cedar Point. And so much more, kitschy or unique or special or also plenty of classy stuff. Ohio would be a great destination, though I admit I use "Cleveland" as my "standard American Everycity." Meaning when I went to China and others on the tour complained about how foreign it was, I wondered, "Why didn't you just go to Cleveland?" Cleveland is invoked often, with love and I'd like to spend more time there.

 

Anyone ever watch Aerial America? My husband and I have seen several episodes and it absolutely makes me want to visit every single state. I want to see that. And that. And that! So many national parks and national monuments and a lot more history to witness than I realized. Fabulous cities. Incredible food and entertainment. And half of them are within a day's drive. How many visits to NYC would it take to see everything I want? About ten or so, that's how many.

[Markanddonna]

I've traveled to almost every state in the USA, and there may be a few national parks I haven't seen, but additional domestic travel doesn't enthrall me. I've lived in Chicago and been to all the big cities and have no desire to return. I have lived in Ohio most of my life and have seen most of it over my many decades of living. I've been to the Dayton Air force Museums, the historical villages, the wonderful state parks, museums, etc. Places like the kitschy Christmas Story House don't at all interest me. 

 

What I miss most about foreign travel is not seeing my relatives in Europe. We used to take TA cruises over there in the spring and then hop on a cheap flight.  My relatives are too poor to come to the states and love that my husband and I come to visit.  They have never left their own country and only travel to "the big city" if medical care is necessary. They roll out the red carpet with superior hospitality when we come.

 

I suppose holding onto my memories of wonderful travel will have to satisfy.  I have a family room filled with treasures from all over Europe and Native American pottery collected at pueblos.I made photo books on KDP and Shutterfly that I can enjoy.  I've been blessed.

[Markanddonna]

BTW- One of my greatest fears is that many ships will be sold off.  Consider who has the money to purchase them.  The end result will be lots of cruises in China in years to come.  I won't be there.

[cbr663]

I am not surprised with the news of the outbreaks on these ships.  The best deterrent for this virus is physically distancing and some people just seem incapable of doing that.  Some people just seem to be totally unaware of their surroundings and their place in them.  Add in a ship environment which makes physically distancing substantially more difficult, especially among crew members,  and you have an environment that is conducive to viral transmission.

[cbr663]

14 hours ago, getting older slowly said:

I think too many are looking for the rainbow.......   ( the pot is empty... awaiting refund ) 

 

since the begin... things have simply got worse.....

( case numbers in the world are continuing upwards ) ( second waves what about third and fourth )

 

Myself.... have lost interest in cruising or even thinking about planning another one.....

 

I honestly can't even see the ferry trip from victoria to tasmania   

open this year or early next year.... for overnight interstate travel.... ( want to take car with us ).

 

And i am surprised at the number of people still planing cruises......

really having no idea of what the cruising experience will be like  in a post Convid-19 world.

 

I will now step off the soap box.. ( carefully  older people should be carefully climb things...lol )

 

So  it is So long and thanks for all the fish... Don

 

Sadly, yes, for many countries things have simply gotten worse.  And we knew it would from previous pandemics.  Perhaps we were naive enough or arrogant enough to think that we know better this time - time will tell.  We can see now what is happening in Australia as they wrestle with COVID and their flu season.  I don't think the situation will be very optimistic for NA this Fall.

 

I am also surprised that people are still planning cruises.  I am not looking at cruising for the next 5 years.

[navybankerteacher]

25 minutes ago, cbr663 said:

 

Sadly, yes, for many countries things have simply gotten worse.  And we knew it would from previous pandemics.  Perhaps we were naive enough or arrogant enough to think that we know better this time - time will tell.  We can see now what is happening in Australia as they wrestle with COVID and their flu season.  I don't think the situation will be very optimistic for NA this Fall.

 

I am also surprised that people are still planning cruises.  I am not looking at cruising for the next 5 years.

I doubt that 5 years is necessary - the Black Death pretty well played out in Britain 1348-1350 - without any vaccine. I doubt I will cruise before 2022 - but most likely sailing by 2023;   possibly sooner if a vaccine comes into wide application during 2021.

 

I think it will not be exactly as before — the major players: Carnival, Royal Caribbean and NCL are likely to restructure (through bankruptcy or voluntary slimming down to raise cash for continuing operations), there will be new operators, fewer new large ships, and likely higher fares.

[clo]

3 hours ago, KmomChicago said:

I hope you enjoy your road trips.

Here's what we have. Just 23'  so we can go almost anywhere in it.

 

[clo]

2 hours ago, Markanddonna said:

The end result will be lots of cruises in China in years to come.  I won't be there.

Why not?

[Markanddonna]

33 minutes ago, clo said:

Why not?

There are some places in the world that are not of interest to us as we plan travel and that includes China.  We have thirty years of experience working with Chinese International students, and they were generally delightful, so we are not without some knowledge and background.  My house is filled with so many gifts from Chinese people that a stranger would assume Chinese people lived here. My husband has been there on business and has trouble with the pollution in China's cities. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Markanddonna

[clo]

26 minutes ago, Markanddonna said:

There are some places in the world

I was wondering. Have you driven along the N. Calif. and Oregon coasts? Simply stunning. Or along the Columbia River? We visited Death Valley last year and New Year's was spent at Yosemite. More stunning places. Or down Hwy 1 in Central CA. Carmel, Monterrey, Santa Cruz etc. Just a few thoughts.

[Markanddonna]

1 hour ago, clo said:

I was wondering. Have you driven along the N. Calif. and Oregon coasts? Simply stunning. Or along the Columbia River? We visited Death Valley last year and New Year's was spent at Yosemite. More stunning places. Or down Hwy 1 in Central CA. Carmel, Monterrey, Santa Cruz etc. Just a few thoughts.

For the past forty eight years, my husband, who is a geologist and I have camped and explored all over the west, specifically Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Oregon, the Dakotas, and Washington State and have been to Alaska four times. We covered New England extensively, the Mid-Atlantic, and the south. We spent the last eight years focusing on Europe because of my historical research and then finding my long lost cousins in Sweden and Poland. My last trip to Europe was to research for my WWII historical novel. I spent most of my life "discovering America first" but my interest is now elsewhere.

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, Markanddonna said:

 ...but my interest is now elsewhere.

 

Indeed, I love how many people will tell you where you "should" visit. Some genuinely want to share their enthusiasm (misguided as it sometimes is) but with others one senses that it is more a way of saying "I have been here and you have not."

 

Travel to me is not a big punch list of places to see before I kick the bucket. I want to go to places that have history I'm interested in, or that I feel a connection to, or that move me for some other reason. 

 

And I agree most of us go through phases in our lives. What interested me with regard to travel 15 years ago may not be the same thing that interests me now.

 

I subscribe to several travel e-newsletters. Over the weekend I got one with the "Top 25 sites in the US you must visit".  I've visited about 18 of them. Do I feel a need to rush out and visit the remaining 7?  No. They're just not places that draw me.

 

[Markanddonna]

37 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

 

I subscribe to several travel e-newsletters. Over the weekend I got one with the "Top 25 sites in the US you must visit".  I've visited about 18 of them. Do I feel a need to rush out and visit the remaining 7?  No. They're just not places that draw me.

 

Yeah, I agree. Curious as to why someone should think I would want to hop on a plane and travel to the other side of the country during a pandemic. Right now, we have to be contented with small, local trips and looking at our wonderful travel books I made on KDP and Shutterfly. BTW- I suspect most of the travel articles are written by people in their twenties. As a writer for professional historical journals, I've seen how many magazines operate. The writers likely just combed the internet. 

 

 I've been to a lot of "highly recommended" sites that were a great disappointment.  Think  Manikin Pis in Belgium.  That is why I love Rick Steves.  

[clo]

4 hours ago, Markanddonna said:

I spent most of my life "discovering America first" but my interest is now elsewhere.

Well, then I hope you get to do that. We're being modest in our expectations.

[clo]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

Indeed, I love how many people will tell you where you "should" visit.

There are people here who are "sad," "depressed," etc. because they can't go on a cruise or travel intl. And they may not be able to for years. So suggesting other places is intended to be helpful. I'd also like to suggest therapy to SOME people but I won't do that. And staying home for a few years sounds acceptable to you - no Roman ruins in the US - but it's not for me.

[clo]

47 minutes ago, Markanddonna said:

 I've been to a lot of "highly recommended" sites that were a great disappointment.  Think  Manikin Pis in Belgium.  That is why I love Rick Steves.  

Good to know he's improved. Some years ago he was held in pretty low esteem.

[SelectSys]

I always try and remain optimistic, but the reality of where we are at finally hit me today.   I thought the concert I posted about previously was somewhat of an outlier - https://www.denverpost.com/2020/07/26/weld-county-concert-rodeo-coronavirus-health-concerns/ - but I guess I was wrong.

 

I have been reading about more concerts and events where people are ignoring any semblance of responsibility.  As such, we are likely not travelling freely for quite some time.

 

Here is a small list:

 

The truly privileged in the Hamptons, including the CEO of Goldman Sachs,  decide to throw a "charity" rock concert.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/chainsmokers-viral-covid-19-drive-in-concert-statement-coronavirus-social-distancing.html/ 

 

How about a rave or boat ride for those in the city for those not invited out to the Hamptons for the weekend?

https://nypost.com/2020/08/03/hundreds-gather-for-secret-rave-under-nycs-kosciuszko-bridge/

https://gothamist.com/arts-entertainment/promoters-arrested-hosting-illegal-east-river-party-boat

 

Torrence Hatch Jr (aka Boosie Badazz) thought it was a good idea to throw a big pool party in Atlanta

https://www.xxlmag.com/boosie-pool-party-backlash/

 

Not to be left out, the promoters in the "City of Brotherly Love" decided to spread some with this warehouse party.   I guess the officials in Chicago aren't living up to that popular phrase describing their city by shutting down this one.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/2020/8/3/21353068/covid-coronavirus-trap-warehouse-party-shut-down-4106-west-chicago-crackdown-parties

 

Mix in all crowds out on the beaches during the day and streets at night and I think we are going to have limited travel options until some really good treatments and vaccines exist for COVID.

 

Sigh...

 

[chipmaster]

54 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

I always try and remain optimistic, but the reality of where we are at finally hit me today.   I thought the concert I posted about previously was somewhat of an outlier - https://www.denverpost.com/2020/07/26/weld-county-concert-rodeo-coronavirus-health-concerns/ - but I guess I was wrong.

 

I have been reading about more concerts and events where people are ignoring any semblance of responsibility.  As such, we are likely not travelling freely for quite some time.

 

Here is a small list:

 

The truly privileged in the Hamptons, including the CEO of Goldman Sachs,  decide to throw a "charity" rock concert.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/chainsmokers-viral-covid-19-drive-in-concert-statement-coronavirus-social-distancing.html/ 

 

How about a rave or boat ride for those in the city for those not invited out to the Hamptons for the weekend?

https://nypost.com/2020/08/03/hundreds-gather-for-secret-rave-under-nycs-kosciuszko-bridge/

https://gothamist.com/arts-entertainment/promoters-arrested-hosting-illegal-east-river-party-boat

 

Torrence Hatch Jr (aka Boosie Badazz) thought it was a good idea to throw a big pool party in Atlanta

https://www.xxlmag.com/boosie-pool-party-backlash/

 

Not to be left out, the promoters in the "City of Brotherly Love" decided to spread some with this warehouse party.   I guess the officials in Chicago aren't living up to that popular phrase describing their city by shutting down this one.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/2020/8/3/21353068/covid-coronavirus-trap-warehouse-party-shut-down-4106-west-chicago-crackdown-parties

 

Mix in all crowds out on the beaches during the day and streets at night and I think we are going to have limited travel options until some really good treatments and vaccines exist for COVID.

 

Sigh...

 

 

The super rrich and others live by different rules, but we see money can't escape biology forever, these will most certainly results in some getting it and till a treatment appears no amount of money will matter.   

 

 

[chipmaster]

11 hours ago, Markanddonna said:

BTW- One of my greatest fears is that many ships will be sold off.  Consider who has the money to purchase them.  The end result will be lots of cruises in China in years to come.  I won't be there.

 

Don't worry China might buy a few but there will be sailings to Europe and other places, as long as you don't mind a lot of chinese traveling with you, you should be good, LOL

[Markanddonna]

10 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

Don't worry China might buy a few but there will be sailings to Europe and other places, as long as you don't mind a lot of chinese traveling with you, you should be good, LOL

Chinese nationals account for one-third of world travelers.  I saw that exact breakdown on the MSC Grandiosa in November. The dining room servers told us that 1/3 onboard were from a Chinese tour group.  I like Chinese people, but most who travel don't socialize because they are usually with their own groups.

[SelectSys]

19 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

The super rrich and others live by different rules, but we see money can't escape biology forever, these will most certainly results in some getting it and till a treatment appears no amount of money will matter.   

 

 

 

No kidding!  They think rules didn't apply to them.  Same with other influential people at times.  Remember Chris Cuomo checking on his house in the Hamptons without a mask while having an active COVID infection?   

 

The Goldman CEO, David Solomon, has an interesting bio on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_M._Solomon😞

 

Solomon first worked for Irving Trust before working for Drexel Burnham in 1986. At Drexel Burnham he first worked as a commercial paper salesman and transitioned into junk bonds. His exposure to high-yield debt prompted him to join Bear Stearns.^[18] At Bear Stearns he was charged with leading the junk bonds division and selling higher-risk bonds.^[13] On one occasion, he assisted a struggling movie theater company in Dallas, Texas, to raise money through a "complicated bond transaction".^[21]

 

Bear Stearns went bankrupt in 2008.  Drexel Burnham was shut down in the 90's for illegal activities.  

Edited August 4, 2020 by SelectSys

[clo]

1 hour ago, chipmaster said:

 

Don't worry China might buy a few but there will be sailings to Europe and other places, as long as you don't mind a lot of chinese traveling with you, you should be good, LOL

We did a Norwegian coastal cruise and we were the only "Americans." We loved it.