Yet Another cruise is testing positive

[fisherguy]

11 hours ago, Floridastorm said:

Sweden and 4 other countries did not shut anything down and they are now back to normal. Had similar or lower deaths per capita than most other countries that did shutdown thus destroying their economies. These are simple facts and statistics. Many private doctors are saying that shutting down the country does little to curb the spread of the virus. The body's natural immune system protects most people from viruses as we are bombarded by millions of viruses every day throughout our life. People with severely compromised immune systems have difficulty fighting off any virus even the common cold. The death rate for Covid-19 is really very low per capita in the US. 150,000 out of 330 million is .00045 percent.

Stop spewing this crap.  Sweden ranks 8th in the world in deaths per capita.  Compared to its other Scandinavian neighbors, they have more than 5 times the deaths per capita.  They are not back to normal.  In fact very few countries are back to normal.  Lockdowns were never meant to be long term.  They were meant to get infection rates down to a manageable level and not have our medical systems overrun.  Countries that have done this have been able to open up their economies but not to normal levels.   Sweden didn’t lock down completely but they did take some measures.  It still cost them many lives and a comparison of the GDP’s with their other neighbors shows not much in the way of economic gains.

[Bobal]

12 hours ago, Floridastorm said:

Sweden and 4 other countries did not shut anything down and they are now back to normal. Had similar or lower deaths per capita  

 

Well you're completely wrong about Sweden so can you please name the '4 other countries' as will be interesting to fact-check those too.

[livingonthebeach]

Back on topic -- here's another cruise line with passengers that recently tested positive.  Very small cruise line out of Alaska that many, especially in Alaska, had high hopes for.  Sad indeed. 

Alaska’s first cruise ship of 2020 returns to port early after passenger tests positive for COVID-19

According to some industry watchers the Paul Gaugin incident (cruise cut short in Tahiti due to a positive case of Covid-19) was of significant importance: "Paul Gauguin incident was particularly significant as it was on the first ocean sailing in the world that was open to North Americans since the halt to cruising began in March."  

Edited August 5, 2020 by livingonthebeach

[TheMastodon]

16 hours ago, Pratique said:

Live with it, or die from it? I already pointed out reasons why people wear masks when alone (for one, to reduce their face-touching habits), but it still seems to bother you that they don't do things your way. It seems to me that we would be better off working together toward a solution than being critical of the intelligence of people who wear masks alone and are not contributing to the spread by doing so.

You misunderstood me.  By live with it I mean - go about our lives wearing masks, social distancing, smart decisions, no large gatherings, etc - that is living with the virus in our society - not staying locked in your home watching CNN all day.  

[TheMastodon]

16 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

ORRRRR, you can listen to scientists early in the pandemic, shut down BEFORE there is untraceable spread, and have a populace that is cognizant of their neighbors and wears a mask, and keep their economies going while having few cases until a vaccine comes around.  And a vaccine will come around.  There is no evidence that suggests we won't be able to have a vaccine in some form, even if imperfect.

 

Taiwan yoy Q2 2020 GDP = -0.7%

Singapore = -12.6%

South Korea = -3.3%

New Zealand = 1.6%

 

US = 32.9%

 

All those countries at the top are reopening, some more successful than others.  I bet the Q3 numbers are going to be even worse for those countries that didn't try and going to widen the spread even further.

 

Scientists got it wrong in the beginning and majority of USA locked down too late - that ship has sailed.  
 

And if USA were the size of New Z, Taiwan, South Korea, and Singapore we would have been just as successful containing the virus.  What’s easier to manage - 100 head of cattle or 10,000? 

[livingonthebeach]

Oh no....more positive cases -- this time on Sea Dream and Viking Star

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23336-seadream-passenger-tests-positive-for-covid-19.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/08/05/world/europe/ap-eu-virus-outbreak-norway-cruise-ship.html

 

https://www.nrk.no/mr/mannskap-pa-105-ma-testast-etter-koronasmitte-1.15111221?fbclid=IwAR2c9NQFhIxdKKXEk0rQIVBm9j9PxHgfGUgmbz0tAsGolSpWwvkWWEeZs9g

 

 

 

 

[rimmit]

As much as I want to cruise, the chance of having an outbreak is considerably higher than not at this point given that nearly Every cruise that has tried to take off has been interrupted and had issues.
 

 Like I have been saying since the beginning,  what have cruiselines and the world done to make an outbreak less likely now than back in March before this was a widespread pandemic?

 

Without a vaccine or miracle cure cruiselines will basically need to totally revamp cruise ship design to have significantly improved ventilation, and increased space in crew and pax spaces on top off all the measures they have added and even then there is a good chance it won’t be enough.

Edited August 5, 2020 by rimmit

[Sam Ting]

11 hours ago, mek said:

Well doesn't this sound like fun!  Exactly what will happen, only on a larger scale,  if the people who would like to see mainstream cruising start up before it should could have their way.

 

Yikes!   I am a fan of Seadream, but those cabins are tiny, especially to be quarantined in them!

[Pratique]

2 hours ago, TheMastodon said:

You misunderstood me.  By live with it I mean - go about our lives wearing masks, social distancing, smart decisions, no large gatherings, etc - that is living with the virus in our society - not staying locked in your home watching CNN all day.  

You were doing great here, and I agreed with you, until you jumped straight over the usual media bashing and took a dig straight at cable news viewers, bringing the virus into the culture wars. Pigeonholing people isn't going to help us get through this either. IMHO

[Wine-O]

People are making one think if you get a "Positive" case that equals the death sentence.  The recovery rate is 98.3%.  The cable news outlets refuse to tell you that.  They just ratchet up the doom and gloom.   If you are old, sick, and have a bunch of conditions, take extra precautions and/or stay home. I agree, lay off the CNN.  🍷

[time4u2go]

7 minutes ago, Wine-O said:

People are making one think if you get a "Positive" case that equals the death sentence.  The recovery rate is 98.3%.  The cable news outlets refuse to tell you that.  They just ratchet up the doom and gloom.   If you are old, sick, and have a bunch of conditions, take extra precautions and/or stay home. I agree, lay off the CNN.  🍷

Actually the recovery rate is 96.7% (in the US):

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by time4u2go

[Wine-O]

7 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

Actually the recovery rate is 96.7% (in the US):

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

 

I'm not going to squabble over 1.5%, but there's lots of discrepancies out there where COVID deaths were not actually COVID deaths.  Lots of positives that were not positives.   Lots of fudging of numbers because hospitals get more $$$ for a COVID death.  Follow the money.

 

I'm very skeptical of the lame stream media because they always tend to get it wrong.    🍷

[20165]

12 minutes ago, Wine-O said:

I'm not going to squabble over 1.5%, but there's lots of discrepancies out there where COVID deaths were not actually COVID deaths.  Lots of positives that were not positives.   Lots of fudging of numbers because hospitals get more $$$ for a COVID death.  Follow the money.

 

I'm very skeptical of the lame stream media because they always tend to get it wrong.    🍷

so that means that 2-3+ people per 100 die depending on what stat you believe.  Is that ok?  I know 100 people.  I dont want 2-3 to die of covid.

[Iamcruzin]

26 minutes ago, Wine-O said:

People are making one think if you get a "Positive" case that equals the death sentence.  The recovery rate is 98.3%.  The cable news outlets refuse to tell you that.  They just ratchet up the doom and gloom.   If you are old, sick, and have a bunch of conditions, take extra precautions and/or stay home. I agree, lay off the CNN.  🍷

I focus on the increase of cases and where they are happening and why they are happening.  The death rate never enters the equation for me. It is clear regardless of whether you hear it from the media or here on Cruise Critic,  lack of social distancing and lack of mask wearing during social events at home, at a local bar or on a cruise ship with limited passengers is causing an increase of cases. 

 

We are able to carry on with our normal day to day events as we did before covid with the exception of wearing a mask and maintaining a distance.  Yes it took a long time to get to this point but we got here.  My son is leaving for St Thomas next week after having to lift and shift his California trip to Hawaii and then his Hawaii trip to St Thomas.  I would love to visit family in Florida but given the current situation that's not happening until they finish with their herd immunity.   Florida is a key player for the cruise industry. Given the results of what is happening in Europe I can't foresee anything happening out of Florida until Q2 next year. 

[bouhunter]

3 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

Oh no....more positive cases -- this time on Sea Dream and Viking Star

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23336-seadream-passenger-tests-positive-for-covid-19.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/08/05/world/europe/ap-eu-virus-outbreak-norway-cruise-ship.html

 

https://www.nrk.no/mr/mannskap-pa-105-ma-testast-etter-koronasmitte-1.15111221?fbclid=IwAR2c9NQFhIxdKKXEk0rQIVBm9j9PxHgfGUgmbz0tAsGolSpWwvkWWEeZs9g

 

 

 

 

DIdn't take long for the return of prison ships.....  

[Wine-O]

19 minutes ago, 20165 said:

so that means that 2-3+ people per 100 die depending on what stat you believe.  Is that ok?  I know 100 people.  I dont want 2-3 to die of covid.

Oh, you know 100 people with COVID?  That's a lot.  🍷

[TheMastodon]

1 hour ago, Pratique said:

You were doing great here, and I agreed with you, until you jumped straight over the usual media bashing and took a dig straight at cable news viewers, bringing the virus into the culture wars. Pigeonholing people isn't going to help us get through this either. IMHO

Respectfully disagree with you on how the main stream media (yes, the trump news network too) has covered the pandemic.   Never been a big consumer of big media as I see right through their various agendas.  They are all full of you know what IMO.  

[Pratique]

5 minutes ago, TheMastodon said:

Respectfully disagree with you on how the main stream media (yes, the trump news network too) has covered the pandemic.   Never been a big consumer of big media as I see right through their various agendas.  They are all full of you know what IMO.  

I didn't say anything about the media, I just pointed out your dig at cable news viewers. That's fine and I appreciate what you're saying but taking digs at other people who consume the media seems counterproductive to me. It's like telling someone to be careful crossing the street but by the way you smell pretty bad and you're ugly too.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

On 8/3/2020 at 4:48 PM, lovescats5 said:

• What would you expect.  You make people stay home, thus increasing domestic abuse, and all the other things that drive people nuts.  Then you open a little of stores or cruise lines or whatever and now everyone is upset because there is an increase.  I am one of those people everyone dislikes.  I do not believe in masks, I think we need to let life get back to whatever normal will be.  If you do not want to take a chance on sailing, stay home.  I am in the high risk group because of age but am so tired of hearing and listening to people complain about not wanting to live until a vaccine is developed.  I had a niece die from the flu, and she got a flu vaccine.  There is no vaccine that will keep everyone safe.  Check the numbers on the swine flu and the regular flu.  Less than 1% of people have died from Covid.  Do I want people to die, no, but I am tired of having someone tell me how to live my life and what I should do.  Go ahead, give me your negative comments, tell me I am wrong in what I believe.  Won't change my mind like I won't change your mind.  I want to cruise, if you are afraid of cruising stay home in your house and let life pass you by.  My opinion only, which I am entitled to.

Why do you not believe in masks?  

 

As far as your percentage, sure, less than 1% of the population of the US has died from COVID.  But it's still twice as many as die annually from the flu (and COVID numbers are still rising).

 

That being said, I agree people should be able to live their lives, but they need to do so smartly.  People wear seatbelts (many because they're told to do so).  People wear bike helmets.  You're told what to do every day of the year.  

 

[PattiHere]

On 8/3/2020 at 4:48 PM, lovescats5 said:

• What would you expect.  You make people stay home, thus increasing domestic abuse, and all the other things that drive people nuts.  Then you open a little of stores or cruise lines or whatever and now everyone is upset because there is an increase.  I am one of those people everyone dislikes.  I do not believe in masks, I think we need to let life get back to whatever normal will be.  If you do not want to take a chance on sailing, stay home.  I am in the high risk group because of age but am so tired of hearing and listening to people complain about not wanting to live until a vaccine is developed.  I had a niece die from the flu, and she got a flu vaccine.  There is no vaccine that will keep everyone safe.  Check the numbers on the swine flu and the regular flu.  Less than 1% of people have died from Covid.  Do I want people to die, no, but I am tired of having someone tell me how to live my life and what I should do.  Go ahead, give me your negative comments, tell me I am wrong in what I believe.  Won't change my mind like I won't change your mind.  I want to cruise, if you are afraid of cruising stay home in your house and let life pass you by.  My opinion only, which I am entitled to.

 

I agree with you. People can protest and gather in large groups, but yet I am told I cannot go on a cruise ship.  What buffet restaurant on land makes everyone wash their hands before going to the buffet.  What hotels do you see people in the public areas constantly cleaning.  I have been on over 30 cruises, never gotten sick.  I faithfully wash my hands.  I agree with your opinion, we are not telling people to go on a cruise, they do not have to go, but I am told I cannot go on a cruise because I may make them sick.  Please tell that to all the people I see out and about going on with their lives, should we all just lockdown, that isn't healthy, either emotionally or physically.   I am 73 and cruising is my enjoyment in my remaining years, I hope I can cruise again soon.   We need to go on living not waiting and worrying about dying, no one is leaving this world alive.   

[JHU]

20 hours ago, cruising sister said:

Next time you have surgery give your surgeon a break and tell them they don’t need a mask if you think it does not protect against disease. I am  a physician who’s youngest patient with Covid 19 is 10 days old. ( it is real and much worse) The no mask  argument goes back 100 years during the Spanish flu pandemic which by the way stated in Kansas ( Interesting history).  You can see how cities and states did based on public health protocols. I wish I could invite all the nay sayers to come volunteer in the COVID units or ER or better yet go be a teacher. I am sure everyone has something to offer but it would be unethical. I am a senior citizen physician with high risk conditions but still feel the need to help. I pray you or your loved ones do not have a bad outcome from COVID-19 and we decrease the loss of life and life long disabilities it is causing. Maybe it comes to no mask no medical care. I am open to suggestions. 

Well said.

[TheMastodon]

33 minutes ago, Pratique said:

I didn't say anything about the media, I just pointed out your dig at cable news viewers. That's fine and I appreciate what you're saying but taking digs at other people who consume the media seems counterproductive to me. It's like telling someone to be careful crossing the street but by the way you smell pretty bad and you're ugly too.

 

Perhaps it is counterproductive!  

[time4u2go]

6 minutes ago, PattiHere said:

 

I agree with you. People can protest and gather in large groups, but yet I am told I cannot go on a cruise ship.  What buffet restaurant on land makes everyone wash their hands before going to the buffet.  What hotels do you see people in the public areas constantly cleaning.  I have been on over 30 cruises, never gotten sick.  I faithfully wash my hands.  I agree with your opinion, we are not telling people to go on a cruise, they do not have to go, but I am told I cannot go on a cruise because I may make them sick.  Please tell that to all the people I see out and about going on with their lives, should we all just lockdown, that isn't healthy, either emotionally or physically.   I am 73 and cruising is my enjoyment in my remaining years, I hope I can cruise again soon.   We need to go on living not waiting and worrying about dying, no one is leaving this world alive.   

You are not being told that you cannot go on a cruise.  The cruise lines are being told that they cannot cruise from various ports until they have addressed some requirements.  If the cruise lines were operating, you could go on them.

[TheMastodon]

 

1 minute ago, time4u2go said:

You are not being told that you cannot go on a cruise.  The cruise lines are being told that they cannot cruise from various ports until they have addressed some requirements.  If the cruise lines were operating, you could go on them.

 

How dare the government shut down cruises during a pandemic!  

[livingonthebeach]

11 minutes ago, PattiHere said:

....People can protest and gather in large groups, but yet I am told I cannot go on a cruise ship...

 

As mentioned above, you are free to cruise as you like, no one is stopping you.  The only cruise to sail out of the US was the UnCruise out of Alaska (under 250 passengers, not under CDC regulations) which had to turn back around due to a Covid19 case. The large over 250 passengers cruise ships are under a no-sail order and now have voluntarily chosen to suspend operations until October 31, 2020.  So it is not that you can not -- it's that the cruise lines can not. 

 

Outside of the US, the only cruise line that was allowing Americans was the Paul Gaugin in Tahiti and that is not happening now that they had a Covid19 case as well.  Many countries and cruise lines of those countries are closed to Americans.  The two I mentioned were the only options open to Americans and now there are none.  River and lake cruises as well as private yachting might be our only alternatives for a long while...