Yet Another cruise is testing positive

[livingonthebeach]

46 minutes ago, SeaHunt said:

 

As posted by CC Managing Editor Cruise Critic Chris on the PG board: "The line confirmed to us that the passenger was a 22-year-old asymptomatic American". 

 

That’s what Travel Weekly is reporting as well.

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Passenger-on-Paul-Gaugin-ship-tests-positive

 

Even though they tested everyone and only had one positive case, sine the incubation period is around two weeks, the passengers won’t know they are infected until weeks later at home.  Not a good situation even though the cruise line touts their safety and health protocols, it’s too early to tell the extent of the spread.  

[alfaeric]

28 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I wasn’t suggesting opening up cruising. I was talking about businesses here in the States. 
 

M8

Same thing applies.  Florida as a state isn't doing itself any favors by staying open with no mandates to do anything with deaths constantly climbing.  I'm sure we are not the only ones who are not willing to go to Florida for any reason- flying through, going to a cruise, anything- until they get it under control.  

 

As I've said before, even IF the cruise lines had a 0.00% chance of getting infected, going to Florida right now is just not worth it.  I'm happy to spend my  money in Michigan, and somewhat isolated.

 

The longer this goes on, the less people will be willing to spend in areas like Florida.   4 more weeks of shut down has to be better than the sorta, kinda, half step, people refusing to go, opening up that we are doing now.  But we've crossed that bridge, and the economy just gets to deal with zero consumer confidence.

[livingonthebeach]

1 hour ago, alfaeric said:

Same thing applies.  Florida as a state isn't doing itself any favors by staying open with no mandates to do anything with deaths constantly climbing.  I'm sure we are not the only ones who are not willing to go to Florida for any reason- flying through, going to a cruise, anything- until they get it under control.  

 

As I've said before, even IF the cruise lines had a 0.00% chance of getting infected, going to Florida right now is just not worth it.  I'm happy to spend my  money in Michigan, and somewhat isolated.

 

The longer this goes on, the less people will be willing to spend in areas like Florida.   4 more weeks of shut down has to be better than the sorta, kinda, half step, people refusing to go, opening up that we are doing now.  But we've crossed that bridge, and the economy just gets to deal with zero consumer confidence.

 

Florida differs by County — not every County has the same rules and regulations.  Here in Miami-Dade, masks are required inside and outside, are mandated and penalties imposed if rules not followed.  Curfews are in effect and there is no indoor dining. Some Counties in Northern Florida and the panhandle aren’t as badly affected and their rules fit their situation.  The governor has left it up to County and local officials as to what they see fit for their areas. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by livingonthebeach

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, alfaeric said:

Same thing applies.  Florida as a state isn't doing itself any favors by staying open with no mandates to do anything with deaths constantly climbing.  I'm sure we are not the only ones who are not willing to go to Florida for any reason- flying through, going to a cruise, anything- until they get it under control.  

 

As I've said before, even IF the cruise lines had a 0.00% chance of getting infected, going to Florida right now is just not worth it.  I'm happy to spend my  money in Michigan, and somewhat isolated.

 

The longer this goes on, the less people will be willing to spend in areas like Florida.   4 more weeks of shut down has to be better than the sorta, kinda, half step, people refusing to go, opening up that we are doing now.  But we've crossed that bridge, and the economy just gets to deal with zero consumer confidence.

We wear our mask and social distance and watch where and whom we hang with. Having said this, who do you suggest bail out all these people without jobs or income, or who are losing their businesses? 
 

M8

[Etta1213]

Was it Sweden that did not do lockdown ref businesses and wound up with no worse statistics than other countries, sparing the hit to the economy?  I heard they avoided a second wave, I guess because they got closer to herd immunity.  Interesting. I'm not claiming right or wrong approach, just feel concern about sending out govt money when we're already severely in debt. Even as a teen years ago, I learned about balancing a checkbook. I wish I had taken some college classes in economics. Will we reach a point ref debt that the whole house of cards falls down? If I didn't have kids and grandkids, maybe I wouldn't fret about it.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Etta1213

[Merion_Mom]

45 minutes ago, Etta1213 said:

Was it Sweden that did not do lockdown ref businesses and wound up with no worse statistics than other countries, sparing the hit to the economy?  I heard they avoided a second wave, I guess because they got closer to herd immunity.  Interesting. I'm not claiming right or wrong approach, just feel concern about sending out govt money when we're already severely in debt. Even as a teen years ago, I learned about balancing a checkbook. I wish I had taken some college classes in economics. Will we reach a point ref debt that the whole house of cards falls down? If I didn't have kids and grandkids, maybe I wouldn't fret about it.

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53498133

[Biker19]

43 minutes ago, Etta1213 said:

Was it Sweden that did not do lockdown ref businesses and wound up with no worse statistics than other countries, sparing the hit to the economy?

It depends on what you compare it to and what statistic you want to use.

 

[Etta1213]

6 minutes ago, Merion_Mom said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53498133

Thank you for the link. Fascinating article. It will be interesting to see how it looks going forward. 

[Dennis#1]

1 hour ago, Merion_Mom said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53498133

 

1 hour ago, Etta1213 said:

Thank you for the link. Fascinating article. It will be interesting to see how it looks going forward. 

Yes, very informative article.  Thanks for posting.

[Iamcruzin]

19 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

This article out of the UK sums it up well.

 

"Cruise lines warned against 'rushing to chase revenue' after more coronavirus cases.

Cruise operators have been accused of 'ignoring the science' in their rush to start sailing again following the global shutdown caused by coronavirus.

The warning comes from former President of Windstar Cruises, John Delaney, who said hasty actions would do more harm in the long run.

Delaney, who left the cruise line in March, posted on his LinkedIn page: "While I understand the economics, it is unfortunate that a few cruise lines appear to have ignored science in an attempt to resume service too quickly.

"These are the first revenue cruises to resume and already Covid and cruise ships are back in the news in the first week.

"Everyone wants cruises to come back, but rushing things to chase revenue and ignoring the science will continue to hurt our industry and make the road to recovery more difficult."

His comments followed news over recent days of an outbreak of Covid-19 on Hurtigruten's ship, Roald Amundsen, and one case on luxury ship Paul Gauguin, currently sailing in the South Pacific.

In addition, Cruise Law News reports TUI Cruises has confirmed five crew members on Mein Schiff 1 have tested positive with Covid-19.

Thirty six crew and at least four passengers on board Roald Amundsen tested positive to the virus over the weekend. The tests were carried out after several members of crew reported feeling ill last week, although they did not show signs of the virus.

Hurtigruten had become one of the first in Europe to recommence sailings, after months of being unable to operate.

But it's now reportedly being investigated by the Norwegian authorities for violating coronavirus safety rules.

Meanwhile, luxury ship Paul Gauguin has returned to Tahiti after a positive case of Covid-19 was discovered while it sailed between Bora Bora and Rangiroa. Passengers have been told to stay in their cabins, and will all be tested for coronavirus.  The ship only resumed international sailings last week.

Italian media reports three crew members on Costa Favolosa and Costa Deliziosa have also tested positive for coronavirus. The ships are moored in port at Civitavecchia, with crew, but no customers, on board.

Costa said: "The three are in isolation and in good health."

Delaney's comments come as Crystal Cruises announced it has cancelled the remainder of its 2020 ocean, river and yacht sailings.

It said 'constantly changing variables' around international travel restrictions and uncertainty relating to Covid-19 'hinders the ability for all cruise lines to operate'.

NCL, owner of Norwegian Cruise Line, Oceania Cruises and Regent Seven Seas Cruises, has cancelled worldwide cruises until 31 October; Princess Cruises has cancelled departures until mid-December.

By contrast, Greece is encouraging cruise ships,which are now being allowed to dock in Greek ports, from 1 August, including Piraeus in Athens, Rhodos, Iraklio, Volos, Corfu and Katakolo.

Major cruise lines are working towards Covid-safe sailing practices. Carnival Corp & plc recently held a Covid science summit with the World Travel and Tourism Council, while Royal Caribbean and NCL have set up the Health Sail Panel.

The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) currently advises against ocean cruise ship travel, but clarified its guidance in mid-July to say the advice did not apply to river cruises."

His comments go hand in hand with the states  here that ignored protocol set by the CDC and opened too early. They should have taken a note from the United States to see that it wasn't going to work.

[Iamcruzin]

 

8 hours ago, Etta1213 said:

Was it Sweden that did not do lockdown ref businesses and wound up with no worse statistics than other countries, sparing the hit to the economy?  I heard they avoided a second wave, I guess because they got closer to herd immunity.  Interesting. I'm not claiming right or wrong approach, just feel concern about sending out govt money when we're already severely in debt. Even as a teen years ago, I learned about balancing a checkbook. I wish I had taken some college classes in economics. Will we reach a point ref debt that the whole house of cards falls down? If I didn't have kids and grandkids, maybe I wouldn't fret about it.

 

 

The United States has been overdrawn for years giving aid to foreign countries. At least this time the US citizens who pay taxes are benefitting from the hand out.

[alfaeric]

10 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

We wear our mask and social distance and watch where and whom we hang with. Having said this, who do you suggest bail out all these people without jobs or income, or who are losing their businesses? 
 

M8

Since you are asking, put a hold on corporate welfare and give it directly to citizens for once.   We should have been doing it just like the EU in terms of taking care of our citizens, but too many worry that the richest country in the world can't afford it.

 

Coulda, shoulda, woulda, but we didn't and now we just have to deal with it.  Long term economic BS is going to be a lot worse than the longer short term relief would have ever been.

 

The fact that we focused on money more than heath.... well..  I don't see that ending well for the economy.

 

In the end, we can debate this response all we want- but a significant part of the tourism population will not be travelling in general, and cruise ships still have not been able to show a realistic way to deal with the situation.  Which means an even smaller population will be willing to travel.  The longer this goes on, the more tourism around the world will suffer.  

Edited August 4, 2020 by alfaeric

[Iamcruzin]

12 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

We wear our mask and social distance and watch where and whom we hang with. Having said this, who do you suggest bail out all these people without jobs or income, or who are losing their businesses? 
 

M8

It wasn't long ago that the government bailed out big business when the housing market crashed. CEO's all received their bonus for crashing the market. Even here with business open people aren't eating in restaurants or buying high ticket items. The trains are still empty and people are working from home. Some have told me that they are not expecting to go back to the office until the new year. Business is finding out that people are putting in more hours and are more productive working at home. I foresee a lot of vacant office space in the future which may result in another Realestate crash.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Iamcruzin

[rimmit]

1 hour ago, alfaeric said:

In the end, we can debate this response all we want- but a significant part of the tourism population will not be travelling in general, and cruise ships still have not been able to show a realistic way to deal with the situation.  Which means an even smaller population will be willing to travel.  The longer this goes on, the more tourism around the world will suffer.  

Agree.  I am a die hard traveler and typically spend at least 3 months a year or more traveling, about half of which is on cruise ships.  I am relatively young and have no risk factors, and the longer this goes on the less and less likely I am to travel as much, when this hopefully gets to the point where international travel is at least somewhat feasible.

 

I have taken a two week vacation to see all the national parks in ND, SD, WY, and MT, a one week vacation to Orlando, and have a weekend in New Orleans coming up, all requiring plane flights and even I am starting to question cruises and international travel when this resumes.   It will never be what it was.

 

Will we still go overseas and Continue to cruise? yes, but not likely as much as we used too. The cruise product will be so changed when this is over it will be a shadow of what it was and that is truly depressing.
 

The longer this continues the more new travel habits are forming.   Whether that be RV travel, all inclusives, National Parks, staycations, it is a new habit that is forming, and the longer the new habit stays the more likely it can become the old habit.   It is gonna take FOREVER for travel to recover from this. 

[livingonthebeach]

4 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

.... I foresee a lot of vacant office space in the future which may result in another Realestate crash.

 

The commercial real estate market will suffer, residential not so much.  As people abandon office buildings, they are looking for larger residential properties.  The trend looks like a flight from crowded, urban areas to suburban and rural spots with more open space and fresher air.  No doubt we are experiencing a big shift in the way we travel and do business.  Let's hope some good things come out of this and that when the dust settles, we'll come back to a better world.  🤞

[Sunshine3601]

31 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

The commercial real estate market will suffer, residential not so much.  As people abandon office buildings, they are looking for larger residential properties.  The trend looks like a flight from crowded, urban areas to suburban and rural spots with more open space and fresher air.  No doubt we are experiencing a big shift in the way we travel and do business.  Let's hope some good things come out of this and that when the dust settles, we'll come back to a better world.  🤞

Yes I agree we will definitely see alot of vacant commercial space.   I think alot of businesses are discovering that workers dont have to be in large offices and can be just as productive working online from home.  

Right now residential home sales are booming in most states as everyone is taking advantage of mortgage rates below 3%.

Great time to refi your home mortgage too. 

We have been trying to help out the small mom and pop businesses by ordering take out from them before ordering from any large chains.   Same for retail.  

Travel/hospitality is definitely being hit the hardest.   I read that some travelers on the road are selecting stays at motels where you have an outside entrance to your room and have individual hvac units vs a stay in a high rise hotel chain.  

It will be very interesting to see what comes of cruising.  I dont think it will be what we knew but hopefully it will be even better!!

Edited August 4, 2020 by Sunshine3601

[rimmit]

32 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

The commercial real estate market will suffer, residential not so much.  As people abandon office buildings, they are looking for larger residential properties.  The trend looks like a flight from crowded, urban areas to suburban and rural spots with more open space and fresher air.

Yep.  I live in rural KY, and while I do not believe people are actually moving to our area, the real estate market has exploded here, especially the larger 3000-4000 sq ft home market.  Prior to the pandemic these homes average time on the market could be years as the population of our area year over year is shrinking and there is no one to buy these homes.

Since May when things started opening up, the supply has disappeared.  Homes that sat for 2 years have all sold and anything in that size range is under contract in 1-2 weeks if that even.   It’s unbelievable.  While our population is definitely not growing, I believe as people have to spend more time at home they are looking for more home space and upgrading their homes.  Plus many that can afford to buy those homes have surplus cash now that they can’t take vacations or at least anything exotic.  

[Mapleleafforever]

21 hours ago, TheMastodon said:

 

It'll be here before you know it.  There are 250 different vaccines being developed/pursued across the world any a few already entering phase3 with great results thus far (Fauci)  I suspect certain demographic will get it 4th quarter of this year.  The largest vaccine producers can do 800-900 doses a minute on their production lines.   

 

Anyways, even if its mid 2021 a nice chunk of the population will have already had Rona through their system.   The virus simply won't have many places to go eventually.  Remember, CDC estimates TODAY that 25% of Florida has had it, 22% of Arizona, and 15% of Texas.   

 

Optimism wins and always has won.  

 

Never forget, the media makes money off TV ratings.  

 

 

I am highy optimistic that a vaccine won't even be needed. 

[time4u2go]

21 hours ago, TheMastodon said:

Remember, CDC estimates TODAY that 25% of Florida has had it, 22% of Arizona, and 15% of Texas.   

These numbers are a lot higher than what I've seen.  Where did you see this?

[mek]

27 minutes ago, Mapleleafforever said:

I am highy optimistic that a vaccine won't even be needed. 

Why do you think that?  

[Mapleleafforever]

10 minutes ago, mek said:

Why do you think that?  

Because I don't watch the news......

[TheMastodon]

58 minutes ago, Mapleleafforever said:

Because I don't watch the news......

 

fear porn isnt it

 

1 hour ago, mek said:

Why do you think that?  

 

the virus will run out of people to infect 

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, time4u2go said:

These numbers are a lot higher than what I've seen.  Where did you see this?

I think this is an assumption and is not based on actual testing. Best guess. Lots of people not tested and it only counts as a positive if you’re tested during the period of time one is infected. 
 

I have no clue if it’s accurate or will be accurate in the future. 
 

It’s also not been 100% that one may or may not be infected again. 
 

M8

[TheMastodon]

23 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I think this is an assumption and is not based on actual testing. Best guess. Lots of people not tested and it only counts as a positive if you’re tested during the period of time one is infected. 
 

I have no clue if it’s accurate or will be accurate in the future. 
 

It’s also not been 100% that one may or may not be infected again. 
 

M8

 

That is correct, because vast majority of Covid19 cases are Asymptomatic - walking around and don't even realize you have it.

 

I've always wondering about reinfection myself - common sense would tell me that if people were getting reinfected the media would be cramming that down our throats.  I hope to whatever god you pray to that we can't get reinfected because that would change the situation completely.  

[Pratique]

36 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

It’s also not been 100% that one may or may not be infected again.

If it behaves like other coronaviruses that cause the common cold then it may circulate for awhile but hopefully it can be managed. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/coronavirus-will-never-go-away/614860/