Organised shore excursions only

[piscean]

It’s been suggested that when cruise ships sail again that only organised shore excursions will be allowed. No independent time ashore.

If this happens what about the cost of the organised excursions. Oceania are very expensive. Will this mean that we will have to stay on board because we can’t afford to get off?

 

[Noxequifans]

Good question. I anticipate numerous changes ..... some good and some not so. 

[pinotlover]

6 hours ago, piscean said:

It’s been suggested that when cruise ships sail again that only organised shore excursions will be allowed. No independent time ashore.

If this happens what about the cost of the organised excursions. Oceania are very expensive. Will this mean that we will have to stay on board because we can’t afford to get off?

 

Yep!

 

As long as those rules are in effect.

[alaskaca]

We have had some excellent Oceania shore excursions in the past, so ship tours only would not be a deal breaker for us. 

The sticking point for us is not being able to leave the ship and walk around the port on our own. 

 

Totally understand the rational for Oceania's decision, but there are ports where we have been before and don't want an organized tour, nor to be guided around the port in a group. 

 

We have an extended trip booked for late July 2021.  It is my hope that if tours are still up in the air on how they will be conducted, Oceania will extend final payment until they can give passengers a solid answer to how tours/time off the ship will be handled.  

[pinotlover]

This is a cash cow for Oceania, as well as for other lines selling shore tours. I’m quite sure they will milk that cow as long as possible. 
 

Maybe after vaccines are available and mandatory for all passengers will the lines drop the requirement. I wouldn’t look for relief until then.

[LHT28]

55 minutes ago, alaskaca said:

Totally understand the rational for Oceania's decision, but there are ports where we have been before and don't want an organized tour, nor to be guided around the port in a group. 

 

Do not believe it  is Oceania alone  that will require that option

 Just look at MSC &  other lines that are sailing in Europe at the moment

 

The ports  do not want  people wandering off the ships  either  in case  someone may be carrying the virus

That is the present situation  in Europe  but  no ships are sailing from US ports yet so who knows what will happen by next summer

JMO

[pinotlover]

A portion of this is hokus pokus for the cruise lines. Communicating with the tour operators in many ports, you learn the tour company is running both private tours and Oceania tours using the same vans and/or buses visiting the exact same places , and eating at the same restaurants . Only difference for you is how much you pay. We had fellow Oceania cruisers, on O tours, delivered to our private tour embarkment point to accompany us before.

 

One tour operator told me “ the government is now putting out new protocols for all licensed tour operators. It doesn’t matter which company you use, all the protocols and procedures will be identical “.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by pinotlover

[Shawnino]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

This is a cash cow for Oceania, as well as for other lines selling shore tours. I’m quite sure they will milk that cow as long as possible. 
 

Maybe after vaccines are available and mandatory for all passengers will the lines drop the requirement. I wouldn’t look for relief until then.

 

(Emphasis mine.)

 

I'm not sure that vaccines will ever be mandatory, and even if they are, around here that won't be a sufficient condition for relief from the requirement. Of course the vaccines are going to help, but everything I'm being told is that their efficacy rate will be similar to the flu shot (40-60% per year), not similar to the smallpox shot (95%-ish for 3+ years). 

 

Suppose we do a little better than the flu shot (so far, this strain of Covid is indeed less of a moving target) and are running at 60-80% efficacy for the vaccine. In my neck of the (back)woods that's not enough for the yokels to want to welcome cruise ship pax again. The Great Unwashed in this port are going to want to see an extremely recent negative test. 

 

So I wonder if what will be needed is shipboard testing every 48 hours or so.

 

 

[Doubt It]

14 minutes ago, Shawnino said:

 

(Emphasis mine.)

 

I'm not sure that vaccines will ever be mandatory, and even if they are, around here that won't be a sufficient condition for relief from the requirement. Of course the vaccines are going to help, but everything I'm being told is that their efficacy rate will be similar to the flu shot (40-60% per year), not similar to the smallpox shot (95%-ish for 3+ years). 

 

Suppose we do a little better than the flu shot (so far, this strain of Covid is indeed less of a moving target) and are running at 60-80% efficacy for the vaccine. In my neck of the (back)woods that's not enough for the yokels to want to welcome cruise ship pax again. The Great Unwashed in this port are going to want to see an extremely recent negative test. 

 

So I wonder if what will be needed is shipboard testing every 48 hours or so.

 

 

Shawnino, well said.

 

There has never been a vaccine for this family of virus. And likely it will not be close to 100% in effectiveness.

 

An interesting post over on Celebrity thread. The poster said - how can we get an effective vaccine when the dear volunteers can not have exposure to a normal activity level per the past? Totally correct. The volunteers are in various lockdown configurations - so they are Not exposed to our previous world. No real measurement possible.

 

Outstanding observation, something I have never seen mentioned anywhere.

 

This is a fatal, fatal flaw of the vaccine process. We will therefore never know if any possible, possible, vaccine will ever work comprehensively.

 

This beyond essential observation totally changes my level of optimism for the future.

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, Doubt It said:

An interesting post over on Celebrity thread. The poster said - how can we get an effective vaccine when the dear volunteers can not have exposure to a normal activity level per the past? Totally correct. The volunteers are in various lockdown configurations - so they are Not exposed to our previous world. No real measurement possible.

Interesting only in the sense of how incorrect it is. The person who wrote it apparently has no idea of how a trial is conducted and how success is measured.

 

Both those receiving the vaccine and those receiving the placebo are told to conduct their lives "normally"...whatever that may mean to them. Those activities, even if somewhat more limited than what they might have been prior to the pandemic, will still over time expose them to the virus that causes COVID-19. No one in the western world is on complete lock down and if you choose you can do almost anything (other than taking a cruise) that you could prior to the pandemic. I live in NJ, one of the states still among those with the most restrictions and I can essentially do anything I did in the past...go to a movie, eat in a restaurant, go shopping, travel by bus, train, auto or airplane, stay in a hotel etc. There is no lock down now, and now is when the vaccine is being tested, not last March or April when more restrictions were in place.

 

The efficacy of the vaccine is determined by a statistical measurement that is not merely based on the absolute number of trial participants who do or don't come down with COVID-19 during the vaccine trial. There is a comparative measure of those who got the actual vaccine versus those who received the placebo. A statistical formula will determine whether there is a mathematically meaningful difference between the number of participants in the active vaccine trial group who became infected versus the number of placebo recipients who became infected. With tens of thousands of people participating in the trials the number of infections on each side of the aisle should be sufficient to produce a meaningful statistic. 

 

[alaskaca]

4 hours ago, LHT28 said:

Do not believe it  is Oceania alone  that will require that option

 Just look at MSC &  other lines that are sailing in Europe at the moment

 

The ports  do not want  people wandering off the ships  either  in case  someone may be carrying the virus

That is the present situation  in Europe  but  no ships are sailing from US ports yet so who knows what will happen by next summer

JMO

Lyn, I agree.  This may be the way of doing business for the cruise lines for some time to come.  And while I can see why they are doing it, for us and the scope of our next cruise, we may want to rethink doing the cruise in 2021 and hold off until 2022.

[pinotlover]

I’ll be the lone guy out. Nothing is 100%, including most masks. As a precaution, once a ( or multiple) vaccine meet the certification requirements of being approve, they will become mandatory for many activities. Other of the precautions may still be required but a Covid vaccine will be. I’m predicting that not only getting on a cruise ship will require the vaccine, so will getting on an international flight to get to the cruise ship. Claiming that since a vaccine may not be 100% effective it won’t be required is like saying that face masks shouldn’t be required because they’re not 100% effective!

 

Interesting concept some seem to be proposing. If the authority opens the ports to cruise ships, is the perception here some will be hanging up “ Cruise Ship Passengers Not Welcome” signs on their shops?

[LHT28]

3 hours ago, alaskaca said:

Lyn, I agree.  This may be the way of doing business for the cruise lines for some time to come.  And while I can see why they are doing it, for us and the scope of our next cruise, we may want to rethink doing the cruise in 2021 and hold off until 2022.

It is a personal choice

 I would not want to be held to taking ships tours  so I will hold off until  thinga are more normal & hope the cruise companies are still in business

 On a side note  we were watching a program on some cities that are now tired of  tourists  overwhelming  them & this season just shows how the cities can be without all those cruise ships in port 😉

 

just saying

 

[Mura]

I'm chiming in (without -- I admit -- having read every post diligently) even though we have no plans of traveling any time soon.

DH had already said a year or two ago that he didn't want to travel in the future because of his serious vision problems -- it was no longer fun or interesting.   But I was willing to cruise alone.  And then came Covid-19.

 

Personally, I'm not interesting in cruising if I always have to have a mask on when in public areas.  I understand why the ship could want me to do so ... but that's not longer "fun".  For months now we've been hiding out in our apartment and putting on a mask when we venture out ...but I don't want to travel that way.

 

Likewise, if I were to take a cruise I would not be interested in ONLY being able to take a ship's tour.  It's not that I am totally opposed to them.  We've had excellent ship's tours and lousy ship's tours, but not all of our private tours were perfect either.  However ... I do like the option of taking a ship's tour, a private tour OR going out on our own.  Being limited to only ship's tours would be a big drawback.  Plus, O's ship's tours were always much pricier than what we could do on our own ... and I doubt that's going to change.  Unless it changes to being even IMORE expensive.

 

This may all be a moot point.  Even I won't book a cruise - or land travel - until life is "more normal".  And while I will be willing to take a vaccine, I won't be first in line.

 

I DO miss our foreign travel.  We have done a lot of it in our time and I hate to think that we've already taken our last vacation out of the country.  I should add that we have also done a lot of US travel as well ... I have even taken our Danish friends on several US National Park trips ...

 

Mura

 

[floridatravelersforlife]

11 hours ago, Mura said:

I'm chiming in (without -- I admit -- having read every post diligently) even though we have no plans of traveling any time soon.

DH had already said a year or two ago that he didn't want to travel in the future because of his serious vision problems -- it was no longer fun or interesting.   But I was willing to cruise alone.  And then came Covid-19.

 

Personally, I'm not interesting in cruising if I always have to have a mask on when in public areas.  I understand why the ship could want me to do so ... but that's not longer "fun".  For months now we've been hiding out in our apartment and putting on a mask when we venture out ...but I don't want to travel that way.

 

Likewise, if I were to take a cruise I would not be interested in ONLY being able to take a ship's tour.  It's not that I am totally opposed to them.  We've had excellent ship's tours and lousy ship's tours, but not all of our private tours were perfect either.  However ... I do like the option of taking a ship's tour, a private tour OR going out on our own.  Being limited to only ship's tours would be a big drawback.  Plus, O's ship's tours were always much pricier than what we could do on our own ... and I doubt that's going to change.  Unless it changes to being even IMORE expensive.

 

This may all be a moot point.  Even I won't book a cruise - or land travel - until life is "more normal".  And while I will be willing to take a vaccine, I won't be first in line.

 

I DO miss our foreign travel.  We have done a lot of it in our time and I hate to think that we've already taken our last vacation out of the country.  I should add that we have also done a lot of US travel as well ... I have even taken our Danish friends on several US National Park trips ...

 

Mura

 

The way things stand, you might as well take the Staten Island Ferry and bring a take out lunch from a three star Michelin restaurant and do a few round trips.  I see the same experience.  The videos I have seen from the restarted Euro cruise lines look sterile and empty.  I see this down here at Disneyworld.  Customers go through the motions but it isn't the same.

 

RE the OP's question, my DW and I would like to do the French Polynesia trip again, but under the circumstances, we would rather island hop staying at some of those great hotels in Tahiti, Morea, Bora Bora, etc and do our own tours.  We too will come back someday.

[ORV]

17 hours ago, Mura said:

I'm chiming in (without -- I admit -- having read every post diligently) even though we have no plans of traveling any time soon.

DH had already said a year or two ago that he didn't want to travel in the future because of his serious vision problems -- it was no longer fun or interesting.   But I was willing to cruise alone.  And then came Covid-19.

 

Personally, I'm not interesting in cruising if I always have to have a mask on when in public areas.  I understand why the ship could want me to do so ... but that's not longer "fun".  For months now we've been hiding out in our apartment and putting on a mask when we venture out ...but I don't want to travel that way.

 

Likewise, if I were to take a cruise I would not be interested in ONLY being able to take a ship's tour.  It's not that I am totally opposed to them.  We've had excellent ship's tours and lousy ship's tours, but not all of our private tours were perfect either.  However ... I do like the option of taking a ship's tour, a private tour OR going out on our own.  Being limited to only ship's tours would be a big drawback.  Plus, O's ship's tours were always much pricier than what we could do on our own ... and I doubt that's going to change.  Unless it changes to being even IMORE expensive.

 

This may all be a moot point.  Even I won't book a cruise - or land travel - until life is "more normal".  And while I will be willing to take a vaccine, I won't be first in line.

 

I DO miss our foreign travel.  We have done a lot of it in our time and I hate to think that we've already taken our last vacation out of the country.  I should add that we have also done a lot of US travel as well ... I have even taken our Danish friends on several US National Park trips ...

 

Mura

 

I've begun to look at things as if I never cruise again or do much international travel I can be thankful for all of the world that I've been able to see, especially for a poor country boy from Northern Mississippi. 

Many people never get to see much beyond a state or two around them. 

[Jancruz]

On 10/12/2020 at 6:10 AM, alaskaca said:

We have had some excellent Oceania shore excursions in the past, so ship tours only would not be a deal breaker for us. 

The sticking point for us is not being able to leave the ship and walk around the port on our own. 

 

Totally understand the rational for Oceania's decision, but there are ports where we have been before and don't want an organized tour, nor to be guided around the port in a group. 

 

We have an extended trip booked for late July 2021.  It is my hope that if tours are still up in the air on how they will be conducted, Oceania will extend final payment until they can give passengers a solid answer to how tours/time off the ship will be handled.  

This has NOT been announced by Oceania..lets wait and see!

Jancruz1

[Tranquility Base]

I would have thought this would be up to the various countries / cities / ports to decide.

They would be making the rules for a cruise ship to visit.

The cruise lines would either comply or they don't get to visit that destination.

[pinotlover]

1 hour ago, Jancruz said:

This has NOT been announced by Oceania..lets wait and see!

Jancruz1

Incorrect!

 

Granted the cruise was Eventually cancelled, but the Oceania Regional Manager told my TA only those taking Oceania shore tours would be allowed off the ship for upcoming cruises.

 

We seem to have an issue with errors in emails regarding cancellation of cruises, and now your claim in this matter. If, and it’s a huge if , Oceania’s personnel is giving out wrong information, might I suggest the “ Boss” take an hour of Zoom time and get everyone on the same page?

[susiesan]

4 hours ago, pinotlover said:

Incorrect!

 

Granted the cruise was Eventually cancelled, but the Oceania Regional Manager told my TA only those taking Oceania shore tours would be allowed off the ship for upcoming cruises.

 

We seem to have an issue with errors in emails regarding cancellation of cruises, and now your claim in this matter. If, and it’s a huge if , Oceania’s personnel is giving out wrong information, might I suggest the “ Boss” take an hour of Zoom time and get everyone on the same page?

If this is the case next summer for Baltic itineraries the I will definitely be cancelling my August Marina cruise. I have zero interest in being forced to tour in little groups from the ship at exorbitant prices. I will just fly to Scandinavia and put together a land trip on my own. It does not make sense that a country would allow tourists to fly in and go wherever they want within a  country  but not allow people arriving by ship to do the same.

[alaskaca]

12 hours ago, Jancruz said:

This has NOT been announced by Oceania..lets wait and see!

Jancruz1

‘....wait and see’ is exactly the attitude we are currently taking. We remain hopeful that this cruise will happen and that Oceania will recover fully from this unprecedented time. 
 

[jagoffee]

On 10/12/2020 at 10:03 AM, pinotlover said:

A portion of this is hokus pokus for the cruise lines. 

 

One tour operator told me “ the government is now putting out new protocols for all licensed tour operators. It doesn’t matter which company you use, all the protocols and procedures will be identical “.

 

 

Many people focus on the element of “cruise excursions only”, but IMO that is not really the change.  The changes are as you say.  Enhanced protocols and procedures for all excursions. This would need to be tightly regulated.  No wandering around the port without using a defined excursion. It will be a temporary measure until the countries being visited and the cruise companies are convinced that everyone is safe.  I have a hard time understanding what people would be opposed to such measures in the short/mid term.  However I do understand why some people would choose not to cruise or travel under the protocols and procedures.  But I do not believe the issue is really  “where you purchase the excursion”.  

[Hawaiidan]

19 hours ago, susiesan said:

If this is the case next summer for Baltic itineraries the I will definitely be cancelling my August Marina cruise. I have zero interest in being forced to tour in little groups from the ship at exorbitant prices. I will just fly to Scandinavia and put together a land trip on my own. It does not make sense that a country would allow tourists to fly in and go wherever they want within a  country  but not allow people arriving by ship to do the same.

Same for me for a Sept cruise AMS to VCE....       Rather I will fly to europe, rent a car and visit friends  and places in the alps and france...   Final payment is in April.   If no definite word forget it forever..... I am with ORV.    I have seen enough in my life... cruising was an ideal way for many areas.   However, today  ships run like seagoing prisons, with everybody in fear is not the cruise experience  I enjoy....    Oh well  time is running out.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Hawaiidan

[Mura]

Have to agree with you, Dan.  Until and unless we can get back to cruising the way we knew it ... it won't happen for us. Given that DH doesn't want to travel any more, cruising would have been easy for me as a single ... not so easy on a land trip.  But I'm willing to give it a go ... when life is "normal" again.  I do have some friends who would be willing to join me on a land trip.

 

Mura

 

[Silver Sweethearts]

3 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

Same for me for a Sept cruise AMS to VCE....       Rather I will fly to europe, rent a car and visit friends  and places in the alps and france...   Final payment is in April.   If no definite word forget it forever..... I am with ORV.    I have seen enough in my life... cruising was an ideal way for many areas.   However, today  ships run like seagoing prisons, with everybody in fear is not the cruise experience  I enjoy....    Oh well  time is running out.

 

What about the Oceania Suite for your disabled wife and the tours we believe you were arranging for fellow passengers in various countries??  If the ships are "run like seagoing prisons with everybody in fear" why promote the cruise and lead them on?  Sounds like you are betting things will turn around though and we hope you are right.