International Travelers May Need to get Virus Vaccinations

[Stratheden]

On 11/25/2020 at 5:17 AM, iancal said:

Does anyone really think that countries like Australia or New Zealand are going to let boatloads of North Americans enter their country with no proof of covid vaccination?   My guess is that it will be a basic requirement just like a passport.  At least for a few years.  I doubt that anyone will take your word that you have had covid in the past and are thus protected.

 

And...if you do not wan to get the vaccine then select a vacation that does not require this certification.

International travellers on Qantas will be required to have Vaccine.  

[sfocruiser]

 

IATA is developing a COVID APP to collect and standardize test results and vaccinations.   Due out Q1 2021 for Apple and 4/2021 for Android

 

A good first step in getting standardization for flying and possibly boarding on ships.

 

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/11/27/covid-19-travel-airlines-hope-new-digital-health-passport-app-will-revive-international-travel/

[Lazz]

18 hours ago, Hlitner said:

You are right, you are not an expert :).  It appears that the mortality rate from COVID is 7-10 times more then the seasonal flu...which already causes too many deaths.  But what is not often discussed about COVID are all the morbidity problems with new issues being discovered nearly every day.  These morbidities, some of which may have life long consequences are often ignored by both the media and the usual anti-vaxers.  So lets go down a short list including the most recent discovery (just in the past week) with some folks who recover from COVID now having teeth fall out!  This appears to be related to COVID having caused circulatory problems that destroyed the teeth and some surrounding gum.  Then we have the folks who have lost their sense of taste and smell (we have a friend who has this problem since last March).   And we must not forget those with permanent lung damage, cardiac damage, kidney failure, lost limbs due to circulatory disorders, brain damage, etc.   So, when you start tossing out mortality statistics you might want to also consider morbidity.  Some have taken to calling folks with morbidity problems, "long haulers."  

 

And then there is the ole health issue of "we do not know what we do not know."  Given the incredible number of post COVID morbidity issues it may be months or even years until we start to get an understanding of just how many serious problems (both temporary and permanent) are related to COVID.  Has me thinking back a very long time ago when folks thought that mumps was not a big deal since it was not a killer.  Then years later they discovered that many men were rendered sterile because they had the mumps.  And then we had all the parents who intentionally gave their children chicken pox, when they were still pre schoolers, so they would not have to worry about it when they got older.  They did not realize that because those kids got chicken pox they were now candidates to later get Shingles which can cause lots of discomfort and permanent including blindness.

 

Hank 

Yes, I am not an expert, I did not play one on TV, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express (If you get the last one you date yourself).  I am in learning mode right now.   It is hard to sift through the clutter and get to the true facts.  I do feel this will eventually move to the courtroom and eventually the Supreme Court.  I would not put any bets on how that would turn out.  I am reading that the liability insurance of most businesses and organizations (including the church I attend) does not cover pandemics.  Yes, they can probably require employees to be vaccinated,  but what about everyone who enters their building?  How deep does this go?  Please understand again that I am in learning mode.

[KirkNC]

Expedition cruises require health certification.  Many cruises to Africa and South America require vaccinations like yellow fever.  Why would requiring a COVID vaccine be any different.  

[prescottbob]

Just another method: under consideration linking proof of vaccination to your passport. 

 

'Vaccination passport' for tourists who have had a COVID-19 shot is in development | Daily Mail Online

 

Be well.

Bob

[cruzingnut]

Just now, prescottbob said:

Just another method: under consideration linking proof of vaccination to your passport. 

 

'Vaccination passport' for tourists who have had a COVID-19 shot is in development | Daily Mail Online

 

Be well.

Bob

 

This will be a way of doing it as anything that you would actually bring with you could always have been forged.

 

Regarding the link....I went to it but then all kinds of ads popped up all over it so I wasn't able to scroll/read it, never mind my laptop got all "hot and bothered" just being on that page for less than 30 seconds.  I hate those websites that do that...

[prescottbob]

4 minutes ago, cruzingnut said:

 

This will be a way of doing it as anything that you would actually bring with you could always have been forged.

 

Regarding the link....I went to it but then all kinds of ads popped up all over it so I wasn't able to scroll/read it, never mind my laptop got all "hot and bothered" just being on that page for less than 30 seconds.  I hate those websites that do that...

 

4 minutes ago, cruzingnut said:

 

This will be a way of doing it as anything that you would actually bring with you could always have been forged.

 

Regarding the link....I went to it but then all kinds of ads popped up all over it so I wasn't able to scroll/read it, never mind my laptop got all "hot and bothered" just being on that page for less than 30 seconds.  I hate those websites that do that...

Just another method: under consideration linking proof of vaccination to your passport. 

 

'Vaccination passport' for tourists who have had a COVID-19 shot is in development | Daily Mail Online

 

Be well.

Bob

 

Sorry, I have ad blocker so link not a problem. Forged? Maybe I guess but I assume it would be electronically attached, etc. like Aussie visas and such.

 

Be well.

Bob

[cruzingnut]

5 minutes ago, prescottbob said:

 Forged? Maybe I guess but I assume it would be electronically attached, etc. like Aussie visas and such.

 

Be well.

Bob

 

When I said forged, I was talking about any proof that you would actually carry with you.  I like this idea of linking the information to your passport; it will be a pretty secure way of proving that you had the vaccine.

 

Linda R.

[mimbecky]

On 11/25/2020 at 12:25 PM, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

Quantas has already announced that once the vaccine is available, they will require proof of vaccination prior to boarding. Odds are they won’t be alone in that.

 

I hope they mean "widely available".  Some of us won't be able to get one until the last phase. 

Hubby and I were registered for the J&J trial but pulled out.  Not for worry of the vaccine but unless/until they are effective and put on the market they can only provide "proof of trial participant" papers. It is a 2 year voluntary study so you can always leave to pursue a marketed vaccine but they will not un-blind you so you won't know if you had the vaccine or a placebo.  This would cause some concern for me - not sure what another vaccine would do if we had the real one already.

[Horizon chaser 1957]

1 hour ago, mimbecky said:

 

I hope they mean "widely available".  Some of us won't be able to get one until the last phase. 

Hubby and I were registered for the J&J trial but pulled out.  Not for worry of the vaccine but unless/until they are effective and put on the market they can only provide "proof of trial participant" papers. It is a 2 year voluntary study so you can always leave to pursue a marketed vaccine but they will not un-blind you so you won't know if you had the vaccine or a placebo.  This would cause some concern for me - not sure what another vaccine would do if we had the real one already.

What a frustrating situation for you! While it makes sense they can’t un-blind anyone until the trial is completed, two years is a very long time frame for this particular vaccine. And until other vaccines are actually in use, there will likely be no information on the wisdom of getting one if you MAY have been injected with the J&J vaccine!

[UPNYGuy]

On 11/26/2020 at 3:22 PM, kazu said:

 

Actually, being in the Atlantic Bubble that burst because some didn’t follow the rules, I applaud him.  Sorry.

We are now in code yellow because of a few people who didn’t do what they should have.  Hopefully we come back and while our cases aren’t huge, our Premier (like a Governor) also takes it seriously.  

If everyone took it seriously we could lick this thing and keep it contained.  

Just my perspective  from someone who could associate with their friends in their own bubble and now that the bubble has burst, cannot any longer.  

 

Single household only thanks to a few.  This thing spreads fast.  One person is responsible for something like 16 cases here.

I live in New York, and feel the requirements here aren’t stringent *enough*. 

[Cruise NH]

On 11/29/2020 at 11:04 AM, mimbecky said:

 

I hope they mean "widely available".  Some of us won't be able to get one until the last phase. 

Hubby and I were registered for the J&J trial but pulled out.  Not for worry of the vaccine but unless/until they are effective and put on the market they can only provide "proof of trial participant" papers. It is a 2 year voluntary study so you can always leave to pursue a marketed vaccine but they will not un-blind you so you won't know if you had the vaccine or a placebo.  This would cause some concern for me - not sure what another vaccine would do if we had the real one already.

 

I'm so surprised by this. We're in the Astra Zeneca trial and they said we could be 'un-blinded' at our request.  It's in the actual agreement you sign to participate.  My impression was this is standard for any vaccine trial.   We can also leave the trial at any time within the two years, plus if the vaccine is approved and available and we got the placebo, they will offer the real vaccine to us.  Again, this is standard language in a trial.  

[mimbecky]

33 minutes ago, Cruise NH said:

 

I'm so surprised by this. We're in the Astra Zeneca trial and they said we could be 'un-blinded' at our request.  It's in the actual agreement you sign to participate.  My impression was this is standard for any vaccine trial.   We can also leave the trial at any time within the two years, plus if the vaccine is approved and available and we got the placebo, they will offer the real vaccine to us.  Again, this is standard language in a trial.  

Don't know....this is what was in the email:

Study participation is always voluntary so you’d be able to leave the Janssen study at any time, including to pursue a different vaccine that’s on the market. However, for whatever reason Janssen has not explicitly stated that study participants will be unblinded if they leave the study early for any reason.

 

[mimbecky]

Cruise NH, just curious- do you know if your first dose was the half dose or full dose? That is assuming you didn't get the placebo?

[prescottbob]

FYI:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/pfizer-slashed-its-covid-19-vaccine-rollout-target-after-facing-supply-chain-obstacles-11607027787

 

Be well.

Bob

[cruzingnut]

12 hours ago, prescottbob said:

FYI:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/pfizer-slashed-its-covid-19-vaccine-rollout-target-after-facing-supply-chain-obstacles-11607027787

 

Be well.

Bob

 

Bob, any way you can summarize this for those of us that don't have a NYT subscription?

 

 

[Cruise NH]

16 hours ago, mimbecky said:

Cruise NH, just curious- do you know if your first dose was the half dose or full dose? That is assuming you didn't get the placebo?

 

If we got the real thing it would be two full doses.  They have talked about revising the trial in the US to try out the lower first dose option.  That would be for future volunteers.

[prescottbob]

Try this one, Hopefully will have minimal pop-ups for you.

 

Pfizer plans to roll out half of originally planned vaccines due to supply-chain problems | Fox Business

 

I'm hesitant to summarize articles since I done so in the past and was accused of being biased for one reason or another. As Jack Webb always said on Dragnet,  "Just the facts Maim". 

 

Be well,

Bob

[Horizon chaser 1957]

1 hour ago, prescottbob said:

Try this one, Hopefully will have minimal pop-ups for you.

 

Pfizer plans to roll out half of originally planned vaccines due to supply-chain problems | Fox Business

 

I'm hesitant to summarize articles since I done so in the past and was accused of being biased for one reason or another. As Jack Webb always said on Dragnet,  "Just the facts Maim". 

 

Be well,

Bob

Actually, the title of the article summarizes the whole thing fairly well.😉

[drowelf]

On 11/28/2020 at 9:48 AM, igraf said:

 

The issue is moot if everyone is vaccinated.  There will be no one to get sick.

 

igraf

 

 

Yeah, but a 100% vaccination rate is a pipe dream. There is going to be some subset of the world's population that will not be able to get the vaccination, either because of Health Reasons or just stubbornness. Have studies even begun on the efficacy of the vaccine with people with already comprised immune systems due to existing health conditions. 

 

I'm more worried about the subset that will just resist the vaccine because they are against vaccines in general. Just look at the news in the recent years concerning the outbreaks of things like whooping cough, measles, mumps,  chickenpox, etc. because parents will not have children vaccinated. 

 

The initial proof of vaccination for the US is going to be a paper form. Hopefully that will progress into some kind of online database otherwise I could see major fraud as how hard would it be to just copy the form and fill in the information yourself. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by drowelf

[Hlitner]

Very interesting post about IATA developing apps.  Some may not be aware that IATA is an organization of which nearly every airline, who flies internationally, is a member.  It their membership would agree to accept such an app/standard it would effectively become the International standard for most of the world.  Kind of shocking that a private organization would be the one to establish international norms, but it does get this COVID thing out of the political realm.  So while groups such as WHO and the UN talk....IATA may actually implement action.  I suspect we may see something similar from CLIA regarding cruising.  If they adopt a mandatory vaccination policy it is likely that every cruise line in the Western world would follow that policy.  

 

So why would private trade groups take the lead?  COVID is different in that it has cost businesses Trillions of dollars.  The very survival of many businesses will depend on getting COVID under control and winning back the confidence of the public.  While International cooperation among governments is always a stretch and can take a long time to implement, private trade groups are in a position to act quickly and decisively.   In the case of IATA they would likely have the support of most of the powerful airline employee labor unions.   The only loser will be the anti-vax community who will simply be left behind with their tails between their legs.  Whether new standards will even consider exemptions will likely be a bone of contention.  But the airlines have recently learned that making exceptions (even for valid reasons) causes lots of problems with enforcement.  That is why with many airlines their current policy is "wear a mask or do not fly" with no exceptions.

 

Hank

[cruzingnut]

23 hours ago, prescottbob said:

Try this one, Hopefully will have minimal pop-ups for you.

 

Pfizer plans to roll out half of originally planned vaccines due to supply-chain problems | Fox Business

 

I'm hesitant to summarize articles since I done so in the past and was accused of being biased for one reason or another. As Jack Webb always said on Dragnet,  "Just the facts Maim". 

 

Be well,

Bob

 

Thanks Bob that was perfect! 

 

Linda R.

[KirkNC]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Very interesting post about IATA developing apps.  Some may not be aware that IATA is an organization of which nearly every airline, who flies internationally, is a member.  It their membership would agree to accept such an app/standard it would effectively become the International standard for most of the world.  Kind of shocking that a private organization would be the one to establish international norms, but it does get this COVID thing out of the political realm.  So while groups such as WHO and the UN talk....IATA may actually implement action.  I suspect we may see something similar from CLIA regarding cruising.  If they adopt a mandatory vaccination policy it is likely that every cruise line in the Western world would follow that policy.  

 

So why would private trade groups take the lead?  COVID is different in that it has cost businesses Trillions of dollars.  The very survival of many businesses will depend on getting COVID under control and winning back the confidence of the public.  While International cooperation among governments is always a stretch and can take a long time to implement, private trade groups are in a position to act quickly and decisively.   In the case of IATA they would likely have the support of most of the powerful airline employee labor unions.   The only loser will be the anti-vax community who will simply be left behind with their tails between their legs.  Whether new standards will even consider exemptions will likely be a bone of contention.  But the airlines have recently learned that making exceptions (even for valid reasons) causes lots of problems with enforcement.  That is why with many airlines their current policy is "wear a mask or do not fly" with no exceptions.

 

Hank

I have said all along that I believe businesses will drive the reluctant ones to get jabbed.  Either their employer will require it or if they want to go anywhere (planes, cruise ships, hotels and maybe even restaurants) they will have to get the shot.  Normally the percentage of non-vaccine takers is small, around 1% but that was before masks and shots became a political statement. 

[Mary229]

6 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

I have said all along that I believe businesses will drive the reluctant ones to get jabbed.  Either their employer will require it or if they want to go anywhere (planes, cruise ships, hotels and maybe even restaurants) they will have to get the shot.  Normally the percentage of non-vaccine takers is small, around 1% but that was before masks and shots became a political statement. 

I expect Covid-Vaccine rates to be similar to flu vaccine rates unless employers en masse require the vaccination.   Those rates are not that high in the under 60 crowd and since they are not becoming ill it may be a fairly low rate.  I don't think anyone need worry about a lack of supply

 

CDC Flu Vaccine Rates

 

 

[KirkNC]

Just now, Mary229 said:

I expect Covid-Vaccine rates to be similar to flu vaccine rates unless employers en masse require the vaccination.   Those rates are not that high in the under 60 crowd and since they are not becoming ill it may be a fairly low rate.  I don't think anyone need worry about a lack of supply

 

CDC Flu Vaccine Rates

 

 

I think this will be more like measles and other required (in schools and many jobs) vaccines that have a much higher participation rate then the flu.  Lord help us if we only hit flu vaccine rates as that won't b enough to stop the spread.