Can Carnival have a few sailings just for those who have been Vaccinated?

[Ellaleah]

3 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

"To be clear, this isn't United Airlines policy, yet. (A company spokesperson said United is "strongly considering" mandatory vaccines.) Frankly, there aren't enough doses yet to make this policy possible."

 

When there is, they'll be no reason to make it mandatory (things will work themselves out naturally). Makes zero sense for a company to jump the gun and hamstring themselves. 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by cruisingguy007

Makes a lot of sense if they want older people on their ships.  I am not the only one that will not go on a ship with unvaccinated people and I don’t think cruise lines will take the risk nor do I think the ports will take the risk of letting ships dock.

[cruisingguy007]

27 minutes ago, Ellaleah said:

Makes a lot of sense if they want older people on their ships.  I am not the only one that will not go on a ship with unvaccinated people and I don’t think cruise lines will take the risk nor do I think the ports will take the risk of letting ships dock.

 

You'll be around those same people in public in your everyday life, what's the difference? Will you not go to work, shopping, church, social gatherings, restaurants, hotels, shows, events, stores etc? There will be no mandatory vaccines in regular life, will you simply stay home forever? Why should cruise ships be treated any different than any other business or organization?

 

You can only control you, thinking there will be some magical vaccine bubbles that you can participate in, at the exclusion of the unvaccinated is wishful thinking at best. Get your vaccine to protect yourself, continue to wear a mask (if you choose), wash your hands and any other risk mitigation practices you deem necessary but you'll be highly disappointed if you think that there will be some massive mandatory vaccine compelling scheme by the government or private enterprise. It simply isn't going to happen. 

 

See the 'key facts' in this article in Forbes

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2021/01/02/large-numbers-of-health-care-and-frontline-workers-are-refusing-covid-19-vaccine/?sh=697fb9c33c96

 

Large swaths of society will not take the vaccine and there isn't much the government can do to compel folks to do so beyond 'strongly suggesting'. The USA has never compelled vaccines on the public, there has always been an ability to opt out for a variety of reasons. I don't expect this will change and any efforts to do so will be tied up in court for years. 

 

That said, I'll be getting mine ASAP and hopefully multiple versions if I can. Once it's widely available, I also expect many of the mitigation requirements (masking/social distancing) to move to the 'highly suggested' or 'out of abundance of caution' optional category and no longer be mandated. Once everyone has the option to protect themselves then it will be up to individuals to assess their risk and decide, individually, what they are willing to accept.       

[Tippyton]

34 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

You'll be around those same people in public in your everyday life, what's the difference? Will you not go to work, shopping, church, social gatherings, restaurants, hotels, shows, events, stores etc? There will be no mandatory vaccines in regular life, will you simply stay home forever? Why should cruise ships be treated any different than any other business or organization?

 

You can only control you, thinking there will be some magical vaccine bubbles that you can participate in, at the exclusion of the unvaccinated is wishful thinking at best. Get your vaccine to protect yourself, continue to wear a mask (if you choose), wash your hands and any other risk mitigation practices you deem necessary but you'll be highly disappointed if you think that there will be some massive mandatory vaccine compelling scheme by the government or private enterprise. It simply isn't going to happen. 

 

See the 'key facts' in this article in Forbes

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2021/01/02/large-numbers-of-health-care-and-frontline-workers-are-refusing-covid-19-vaccine/?sh=697fb9c33c96

 

Large swaths of society will not take the vaccine and there isn't much the government can do to compel folks to do so beyond 'strongly suggesting'. The USA has never compelled vaccines on the public, there has always been an ability to opt out for a variety of reasons. I don't expect this will change and any efforts to do so will be tied up in court for years. 

 

That said, I'll be getting mine ASAP and hopefully multiple versions if I can. Once it's widely available, I also expect many of the mitigation requirements (masking/social distancing) to move to the 'highly suggested' or 'out of abundance of caution' optional category and no longer be mandated. Once everyone has the option to protect themselves then it will be up to individuals to assess their risk and decide, individually, what they are willing to accept.       

I admire your optimism.  You make far too much sense.

[SNJCruisers]

1 hour ago, cruisingguy007 said:

Why should cruise ships be treated any different than any other business or organization?

 

Large swaths of society will not take the vaccine and there isn't much the government can do to compel folks to do so beyond 'strongly suggesting'.   

To answer your first question.  They are different than other businesses because no other business has a captive audience for a week stuck in a specific geographic area.  Cruise ships should make vaccines mandatory.  And then as "insurance", have masking,  social distancing and bubble shore excursions in order to eliminate the possibility of spreading to a minimum since the vaccines are less than 100% effective.  Cruise ships are being treated differently than airlines and hotels by the media, so they need to react differently. 

The large swaths of society that do not get immunized have zero effect with this scenario.  If people don't  get immunized, they don't  cruise.  It's  as simple as that.  All cruisers as well as all crew need to be immunized, at least for the short term.   If this short term occurence leaves children in it's wake since there is no vaccine for them, they will be a casualty for the short term.  By the time a vaccine is available for them, then maybe herd immunity will have occurred and it'll be a moot point.

If cruising returns without vaccines being mandatory and a breakout occurs, it could be the death knell of the industry.

[cruisingguy007]

1 minute ago, SNJCruisers said:

To answer your first question.  They are different than other businesses because no other business has a captive audience for a week stuck in a specific geographic area.  Cruise ships should make vaccines mandatory.  And then as "insurance", have masking,  social distancing and bubble shore excursions in order to eliminate the possibility of spreading to a minimum since the vaccines are less than 100% effective.  Cruise ships are being treated differently than airlines and hotels by the media, so they need to react differently. 

The large swaths of society that do not get immunized have zero effect with this scenario.  If people don't  get immunized, they don't  cruise.  It's  as simple as that.  All cruisers as well as all crew need to be immunized, at least for the short term.   If this short term occurence leaves children in it's wake since there is no vaccine for them, they will be a casualty for the short term.  By the time a vaccine is available for them, then maybe herd immunity will have occurred and it'll be a moot point.

If cruising returns without vaccines being mandatory and a breakout occurs, it could be the death knell of the industry.

 

Wishful thinking and isn't going to happen. If vaccinated people, who are afraid to face the same reality they face on land, are left in the wake, they will be a casualty of the short term. Some cases will occur, it's an absolute certainty, there WILL be cases, even on a cruise with "supposedly" all vaccinated people. The vaccine being a panacea is where emotion is overriding logic. Many folks are under an illusion that it is some kind of magic vaccine. The scrutiny will come whether it's on a ship of all vaccinated folks or not. Then there is the matter of how to guarantee that all passengers are truly vaccinated. Who pays for that system? Who manages it? What happens if someone (a certainty) gets by with fake docs? Are the lines liable? Top what degree? 

 

You see. The vaccine will clear up none of the confusion and liability. Once vaccines are widely available/distributed, expect to see some legislation (or court case) that provides blanket immunity and returns the risk, rightfully so, to the individual to protect themselves. People need to get comfortable with the idea that they will potentially be exposed to covid on a cruise and the expectation or notion of all cruises being covid free isn't a reality. It would be like expecting every cruise to have zero sick people, a preposterous notion to any reasonable person.   

 

Until the lines can be confident in sailing and not be expected to be epidemiologists, medical data repositories, and insurance companies, who collect zero in premiums to offset these burdens, the same outcome will be inevitable. The lines can't exist in a bubble where they are held to a higher standard, in addition to a higher liability expectation, than every other business or agency. Simple as that.

 

The vaccine doesn't solve the covid problem. It allows us to live/operate with it in a manageable way. It's not going to go away for a long time (if ever), but much like the flu vaccine (that many don't take and chose to risk it), it can be a tool and another layer of protection for the most venerable but will never eliminate risk entirely like many espouse.

 

If passengers, the CDC, and destination countries believe that only a 100% covid free cruise is the way for the industry to survive/operate then that is the true dell knell and we might as well forget about cruising ever again. It's an unrealistic expectation that isn't grounded in reality. No other business, school, store, hotel, airline, etc could survive that impossible standard either. Fortunately for aforementioned, it's just considered 'general community transmission' when they have "outbreaks" and they get the benefit of not having traceability to be blamed and condemned like the cruise lines, even though the very infection most likely originated from those very places. Talk about irony.                                

[Ellaleah]

55 minutes ago, SNJCruisers said:

2 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

To answer your first question.  They are different than other businesses because no other business has a captive audience for a week stuck in a specific geographic area.  Cruise ships should make vaccines mandatory.  And then as "insurance", have masking,  social distancing and bubble shore excursions in order to eliminate the possibility of spreading to a minimum since the vaccines are less than 100% effective.  Cruise ships are being treated differently than airlines and hotels by the media, so they need to react differently. 

The large swaths of society that do not get immunized have zero effect with this scenario.  If people don't  get immunized, they don't  cruise.  It's  as simple as that.  All cruisers as well as all crew need to be immunized, at least for the short term.   If this short term occurence leaves children in it's wake since there is no vaccine for them, they will be a casualty for the short term.  By the time a vaccine is available for them, then maybe herd immunity will have occurred and it'll be a moot point.

If cruising returns without vaccines being mandatory and a breakout occurs, it could be the death knell of the industry.

I couldn’t have said this better!  Whether or not the government can mandate vaccines, the “Floating  Petri dish” companies can!  It is so unbelievable how many people on here are anti science and so willing to take risks!  Covid is not the flu and neither would a Covid outbreak be on a ship.  I can’t help but think that some have no experience of people close to them having had it.  Even if one survives, it is not pretty!

[SNJCruisers]

5 minutes ago, Ellaleah said:

I couldn’t have said this better!  Whether or not the government can mandate vaccines, the “Floating  Petri dish” companies can!  

I assume that you were talking about my post, so thank you.  Because of the inclusion of cruisingguy in your quote, I was not sure. 

This topic has been widely debated on the boards and by the end of the year we will see who was right and who was wrong on either side of the line drawn in the sand.

[Incognito1]

49 minutes ago, Ellaleah said:

It is so unbelievable how many people on here are anti science and so willing to take risks!  Covid is not the flu and neither would a Covid outbreak be on a ship.  I can’t help but think that some have no experience of people close to them having had it. 

Your assumption is faulty.  Scientists do not agree, so deciding that people who do not share your particular point of view are "anti-science" is a fallacy.

 

#1 predictor of death from COVID is obesity.  By far.  Should we exclude people from cruising who have BMIs over 40? (https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/defining.html)  After our last Carnival cruise, I would welcome that (nobody fitting the CDC definition of obesity above looks good in a bikini or Speedo.)

 

Allow me to help you out with your "thoughts": We have several extended family members who have already gotten confirmed cases, ranging from hospitalization (over 60, hard living) to "in bed over the weekend" (under 18), and cases inbetween.  Weigh your OWN risk.  If you're obese, take *every* precaution that you can, even if it helps only 1%. If you're unhealthy, take *every* precaution that you can and work on getting healthy.  Take personal responsibility for your own choices.

[vwrestler171]

14 hours ago, Ellaleah said:

I couldn’t have said this better!  Whether or not the government can mandate vaccines, the “Floating  Petri dish” companies can!  It is so unbelievable how many people on here are anti science and so willing to take risks!  Covid is not the flu and neither would a Covid outbreak be on a ship.  I can’t help but think that some have no experience of people close to them having had it.  Even if one survives, it is not pretty!

COVID is not horrible to the MAJORITY of the population either.  I know several people who have had it and the only reason they knew was they lost their sense of taste and smell.  I also know a few who had a more sever case, but said it was no worse than a horrible cold.  The fact that you fear a virus with over a 98% survival rate says more about you than it does the people you claim are stupid that they don't line up for a vaccine that may or may not even prevent you from getting COVID, nor are there any long term studies to know any potential side effects.

[Ellaleah]

1 hour ago, vwrestler171 said:

15 hours ago, Ellaleah said:

 

COVID is not horrible to the MAJORITY of the population either.  I know several people who have had it and the only reason they knew was they lost their sense of taste and smell.  I also know a few who had a more sever case, but said it was no worse than a horrible cold.  The fact that you fear a virus with over a 98% survival rate says more about you than it does the people you claim are stupid that they don't line up for a vaccine that may or may not even prevent you from getting COVID, nor are there any long term studies to know any potential side effects.

Well, I guess I know the other ones, but just like you, I should not be siting anecdotal evidence.  I have family members in their 40’s that are very fit and had horrible experiences that I would not wish on anyone.  We need to listen to the experts, who largely don’t see things the way you do!

[vwrestler171]

1 hour ago, Ellaleah said:

Well, I guess I know the other ones, but just like you, I should not be siting anecdotal evidence.  I have family members in their 40’s that are very fit and had horrible experiences that I would not wish on anyone.  We need to listen to the experts, who largely don’t see things the way you do!

The experts that change their minds weekly?  Both me and my wife are in the medical field and feel that the whole situation is being blown way out of proportion.  Can COVID be deadly?  Yes, but the way that the world shut down because of a virus that has such a high survival rate is astounding.  We have been told to wear a mask and it will go away.  I have seen many co workers test positive for COVID with no symptoms, even though they wear a mask unless they are in their home where they live alone.  How did they get it?  Either masks don't work or the tests were wrong. Being on the front line we see changes daily and most contradict each other.  One day masks don't work, the next day they do, then wear 2 masks, etc.  Lock the country down, don't lock the country down.  Fauci himself says to wear a mask, but then is photographed the next day without a mask while with his friends at a baseball game, is it a case of do what we say, not what we do?

[cruisingguy007]

On 2/6/2021 at 8:49 PM, SNJCruisers said:

I assume that you were talking about my post, so thank you.  Because of the inclusion of cruisingguy in your quote, I was not sure. 

This topic has been widely debated on the boards and by the end of the year we will see who was right and who was wrong on either side of the line drawn in the sand.

 

It's actually not really up for debate. The truth is that many folks, particularly those who sling around Dr. Fauci's name, actually haven't heard what he has actually said. People have selective hearing and then misinterpretation through their own filter of understanding/beliefs causes them to selectively choose individual facts to draw a conclusion that fits their perception/narrative. Everything I have posted he has actually said. The vaccine WILL NOT be a panacea and IS NOT a cure for covid (he has said as much many times). It is simply a mitigation tool to help us live with covid in a manageable way. Even mandating vaccines and testing for cruises will not lead to 100% covid free cruising. Period. It's a fallacy. And no, I'm not anti science or anti vaccine.

 

Look, take all the interpretations away. Look at the simple math. Take the false negative rate of covid testing and then couple them with the known vaccine efficacy rate. Add them together, and lets use the best case scenarios for arguments sake and say every single test/vaccine shot is done 100% properly without human error or virus acquisition shortly after testing, and vaccine efficacy is 95% for every vaccine (which it's not), and every test is 99% accurate (which it's not) and under the absolute best-of-best circumstances it's still mathematically impossible to have 100% covid free cruising. It simply doesn't add up. The odds look worse and worse when you punch in the real numbers by vaccine type (reported efficacy rate) and testing reliability rates (particularly false negatives) of the two major types of covid testing (molecular/antigen).

 

As I said before, folks will have to get used to the idea that 100% covid free cruising isn't possible because there is no 100% cure. Even taking small percentages, say 1%-5%, that is a lot of people on a cruise ship with 3K+ passengers and crew. It's simply mathematically impossible, even if one or two sailings miraculously manage to beat all the odds, the math doesn't change. Dr. Fauci himself has said as much, yet people keep pontificating about the vaccine/testing being an absolute solution when it's far from it and no health experts have ever said as much. The only 100% effective strategy is to stay home and have zero contact with anyone, ever. The math doesn't lie. 

 

That said, I think getting a vaccine is a good insurance policy and will help us get to a place where the relative risk is something people can live with and accept. Others in the highest risk category may want to take further steps by masking at all times, avoiding crowds/people, limiting trips etc. The point is that once the vaccine is widely available, there must be a shift back to personal responsibility and personal risk assessment (aka freedom). We can't hold everyone and every business hostage in perpetuity by having unrealistic expectations. Much of the strictest mandates won't be necessary once vaccines are widely available on demand because people can then choose for themselves what protection level they are most comfortable with.   

          

Edited February 8, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[mafiadon]

The vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting covid, only suppose to not give it to you as sever. So if you think you are immune from it you are sadly mistaken

[cruisingguy007]

6 minutes ago, mafiadon said:

The vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting covid, only suppose to not give it to you as sever. So if you think you are immune from it you are sadly mistaken

 

Exactly, there is no magic bubble as many believe. It's a prophylactic measure that one can choose to utilize to reduce their risks/susceptibility but is not a cure.

[SNJCruisers]

1 minute ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Exactly, there is no magic bubble as many believe. It's a prophylactic measure that one can choose to utilize to reduce their risks/susceptibility but is not a cure.

I never said nor implied that the vaccine is a panacea.

What I as well as others have said is that those who cruise should be vaccinated.   No vaccination, no cruise, cut and dry.  If it's 95% effective, that is better than not making vaccines mandatory.  In conjunction with the vaccines,  masks, social distancing , no self serve buffets and excursion bubbles will all add to keep the possible spread at a minimum. 

 

This spinning of wheels going nowhere has to stop.  Get more people vaccinated, train the crews via the test cruises, start with the short cruises by the end of the summer and let's try to put what will then be 18 months of hell behind us.

 

[cruisingguy007]

1 minute ago, SNJCruisers said:

I never said nor implied that the vaccine is a panacea.

What I as well as others have said is that those who cruise should be vaccinated.   No vaccination, no cruise, cut and dry.  If it's 95% effective, that is better than not making vaccines mandatory.  In conjunction with the vaccines,  masks, social distancing , no self serve buffets and excursion bubbles will all add to keep the possible spread at a minimum. 

 

This spinning of wheels going nowhere has to stop.  Get more people vaccinated, train the crews via the test cruises, start with the short cruises by the end of the summer and let's try to put what will then be 18 months of hell behind us.

 

 

That's the problem. It won't be behind us. No point in doing all those things if it's just going to grind to a halt the min someone gets covid or a few passengers/crew test positive, which is an absolute certainty. No sense in getting excited until those questions are answered because they are absolutely going to need sorting. If everyone is going to freak out and overreact and call for the cruise to discontinue, or worse, to suspend operations again, I really don't see any hope. People have to accept reality, personal responsibility, and there needs to be a rational response/plan that doesn't grind everything to a halt or cause unnecessary disruption/chaos. 

 

What that looks like I don't know but logic/planning needs to start prevailing over emotion and wishful/hopeful thinking. Cruise lines can't afford to have their chains yanked all willy-nilly when they spend millions of dollars getting all their ducks in a row that are required to operate/plan these ginormous operations that are based on long-term outlooks/planning. A machine with millions of moving parts can't just be turned on/off like a switch. Currently, that seems to be the expectation. 100% covid free cruising is a unrealistic expectation and without some assurances of operational integrity, it seems doomed from the start.     

[Buckeyefrank100]

20 hours ago, Ellaleah said:

I so don’t need a “science denier” to help me with my thoughts.  You might be able to find one or 2 scientists to agree with you, but not credible ones.  The obesity claims are correct, but off subject.  My family members that were knocked down hard are not obese and , in fact, very fit.  I bet you think that climate change is not real.  Did you find one of those same scientists to agree with you?  I wish you were smarter.  I’ll go with Fauci!  Who will you go with?

Count me in as a "science denier" as well.  There's no doubt that a mask will prevent most particles from escaping but not all.  But that does not in any way mean that the transmission will be reduced.  The largest study on the transmission of covid was a dutch study that showed masks had no affect on the prevention of transmission of the virus.  There could be a lot of reasons for this....  Even though the mask prevents a lot from escaping, some virus particles do get out and settle on surfaces.  People are touching the surfaces and touching their nose and mouths.  Not to mention that people with masks on are always adjusting them, touching them, then touching other things spreading whatever they have.  Not to mention the studies that show mask usage by people who are infected, actually get sicker from wearing a mask.  The flu of 1918 was studied and a majority of the deaths were from secondary infections exacerbated by mask usage.

[Lazz]

On 2/6/2021 at 9:17 PM, cruisingguy007 said:

 

You'll be around those same people in public in your everyday life, what's the difference? Will you not go to work, shopping, church, social gatherings, restaurants, hotels, shows, events, stores etc? There will be no mandatory vaccines in regular life, will you simply stay home forever? Why should cruise ships be treated any different than any other business or organization?

 

You can only control you, thinking there will be some magical vaccine bubbles that you can participate in, at the exclusion of the unvaccinated is wishful thinking at best. Get your vaccine to protect yourself, continue to wear a mask (if you choose), wash your hands and any other risk mitigation practices you deem necessary but you'll be highly disappointed if you think that there will be some massive mandatory vaccine compelling scheme by the government or private enterprise. It simply isn't going to happen. 

 

See the 'key facts' in this article in Forbes

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2021/01/02/large-numbers-of-health-care-and-frontline-workers-are-refusing-covid-19-vaccine/?sh=697fb9c33c96

 

Large swaths of society will not take the vaccine and there isn't much the government can do to compel folks to do so beyond 'strongly suggesting'. The USA has never compelled vaccines on the public, there has always been an ability to opt out for a variety of reasons. I don't expect this will change and any efforts to do so will be tied up in court for years. 

 

That said, I'll be getting mine ASAP and hopefully multiple versions if I can. Once it's widely available, I also expect many of the mitigation requirements (masking/social distancing) to move to the 'highly suggested' or 'out of abundance of caution' optional category and no longer be mandated. Once everyone has the option to protect themselves then it will be up to individuals to assess their risk and decide, individually, what they are willing to accept.       

The Supreme court gave local communities the right to mandate the smallpox vaccine in 1905. " The U.S. Supreme Court, in an opinion by Justice John Marshall Harlan I, ruled that the state of Massachusetts acted constitutionally within its police powers to pass a law to protect the health and safety of the public.  https://mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1824/jacobson-v-massachusetts.  The only difference I see is that these shots are not approved for covid 19 immunity.  From the FDA fact sheet: "There is no U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19."  https://www.fda.gov/media/144414/download

[bingomamma19]

7 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

I never said nor implied that the vaccine is a panacea.

What I as well as others have said is that those who cruise should be vaccinated.   No vaccination, no cruise, cut and dry.  If it's 95% effective, that is better than not making vaccines mandatory.  In conjunction with the vaccines,  masks, social distancing , no self serve buffets and excursion bubbles will all add to keep the possible spread at a minimum. 

 

This spinning of wheels going nowhere has to stop.  Get more people vaccinated, train the crews via the test cruises, start with the short cruises by the end of the summer and let's try to put what will then be 18 months of hell behind us.

 

With all of those rules and restrictions, you would have a very small percentage of people willing to spend money on a cruise.     The cruise companies are not going to operate with such a limited amount of people willing to have so many restrictions on there vacation they spend alot of money on.    They wouldnt even be able to financially survive with such a small group.

 

If you want that kind of vacation, might as well book a private yacht and go were you want all by yourself

[lizzius]

On 2/6/2021 at 10:38 PM, Ellaleah said:

I couldn’t have said this better!  Whether or not the government can mandate vaccines, the “Floating  Petri dish” companies can!  It is so unbelievable how many people on here are anti science and so willing to take risks!  Covid is not the flu and neither would a Covid outbreak be on a ship.  I can’t help but think that some have no experience of people close to them having had it.  Even if one survives, it is not pretty!

The "science" says the situation is not so black and white... There was an outbreak in the news about a nursing home in Germany with ~100 residents. After testing all of them and the staff (who are all more than a week past their second dose), they found 17 patients had been infected (all elderly) and all were at least mildly symptomatic. No one is sure where it came from, as there are still precautionary measures in place. 

 

So now what? As mentioned before: "outbreaks" like this will happen just as sure as the sun rises on a cruise ship. So long as no one in that group is hospitalized or dead it is still a resounding success. 17/100 symptomatic cases probably isn't outside of the realm of normalcy for symptomatic infections among unvaccinated children (who are estimated to be asymptomatic during infection more than 50% of the time) and it's notable that there were no infections detected among presumably much younger staff. So if the goal is no cases of symptomatic infection  onboard a cruise ship it seems cases like this would say no unvaccinated children, and no one over a certain age regardless of vaccination status as the "science" suggests they're much more likely to succumb to infection and become symptomatic. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by lizzius

[SNJCruisers]

4 hours ago, bingomamma19 said:

With all of those rules and restrictions, you would have a very small percentage of people willing to spend money on a cruise.     The cruise companies are not going to operate with such a limited amount of people willing to have so many restrictions on there vacation they spend alot of money on.    They wouldnt even be able to financially survive with such a small group.

 

If you want that kind of vacation, might as well book a private yacht and go were you want all by yourself

With the exception of mandatory vaccines, all of the other requirements I listed are currently being implemented by Royal on the Quantum.

[beerman2]

On 2/7/2021 at 2:02 PM, vwrestler171 said:

COVID is not horrible to the MAJORITY of the population either.  I know several people who have had it and the only reason they knew was they lost their sense of taste and smell.  I also know a few who had a more sever case, but said it was no worse than a horrible cold.  The fact that you fear a virus with over a 98% survival rate says more about you than it does the people you claim are stupid that they don't line up for a vaccine that may or may not even prevent you from getting COVID, nor are there any long term studies to know any potential side effects.

True , however to the 2% (Minority) that have had it , certainly it can be more than just a horrible cold. 

 

Brother spent 25 days in isolation, 30 days total in hospital. Still on oxygen with plenty of P/T and Occupationsal therapy. And the uncertainty of what side affects are ahead.

 

Lets not minimize those that have been severely affected by Covid, simply because the Majority won't have major symptoms.

[ontheweb]

56 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

True , however to the 2% (Minority) that have had it , certainly it can be more than just a horrible cold. 

 

Brother spent 25 days in isolation, 30 days total in hospital. Still on oxygen with plenty of P/T and Occupationsal therapy. And the uncertainty of what side affects are ahead.

 

Lets not minimize those that have been severely affected by Covid, simply because the Majority won't have major symptoms.

And doesn't it seem that many of the same people who scoff at the long term aftereffects of Covid are the same people who see possible terrible side effects from the vaccines?

[bingomamma19]

3 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

With the exception of mandatory vaccines, all of the other requirements I listed are currently being implemented by Royal on the Quantum.

Ok...thats one ship.    Do you think a cruise line can be profitable with 1 ship?     

 

To be sure, when cruising resumes this year, there will be mask and social distancing requirements (for a limited time).   

 

Since only about 60 percent of Americans have said they will take the vaccine, that is a signifant reduction in who would be eligible to cruise under a vaccination requirement.  Also, children are not even allowed to be vaccinated, since it hasnt been tested on them yet.   Now you add in the other mask and distancing...you keep reducing the number of possible customers by ALOT.    No mass cruiseline is going to be able to gain enough customers to be profitable.    There are ships to fill every week.

[SNJCruisers]

1 hour ago, bingomamma19 said:

Ok...thats one ship.    Do you think a cruise line can be profitable with 1 ship?     

 

To be sure, when cruising resumes this year, there will be mask and social distancing requirements (for a limited time).   

 

Since only about 60 percent of Americans have said they will take the vaccine, that is a signifant reduction in who would be eligible to cruise under a vaccination requirement.  Also, children are not even allowed to be vaccinated, since it hasnt been tested on them yet.   Now you add in the other mask and distancing...you keep reducing the number of possible customers by ALOT.    No mass cruiseline is going to be able to gain enough customers to be profitable.    There are ships to fill every week.

First of all, I mentioned the Quantum because it's the ONLY ship cruising right now amongst the main line cruise lines.  If kids are a temporary short term casualty, then so be it.  They'll be able to cruise by 2023 and families can just choose other methods of vacationing in the meantime.

 

It seems like you want to fill ships every week and not have any restrictions.  Not gonna happen.  The last thing the industry wants is to have another outbreak.  If people want to cruise, they will have to adhere to whatever restrictions are put in place by the cruise lines.  If they don't like the restrictions, they can stay home or go to an all inclusive for their vacations in the short term.  And the ships do not have to be full each week in order to turn a profit.