Health and Safety announcement

[Porcupine 52]

https://www.vikingcruises.com/oceans/my-trip/health-and-safety/health-and-safety-program.html?contid=30484429258_1024013961&utm_id=email_vrc.53847022&cid=EML|RSP|999|vrc.53847022&utm_source=email&utm_medium=email

 

 

[rbslos18]

This is as good as anyone can do. I know Viking will do its very best. The unaddressed problem is what if a carrier doesn't test positive until onboard?  Even with pretesting SeaDream ended up with a nightmare. I am proud of Viking going above and beyond. 

RB

[Redtravel]

Sounds well thought out.  It may work provided all guests and crew remain healthy. Not sure if I like being restricted to taking ship excursions. Viking excursions are very good. However, having visited some ports previously and taken excursions, it is nice to visit a town on our own.  Hope that Viking offers a more extensive variety of excursions. 

[OnTheJourney]

12 hours ago, Redtravel said:

provided all guests and crew remain healthy.

and adhere to ALL the protocols. We're not seeing that in the US. Drove by a local shopping center the other day and, from the looks of the parking lot, you would have NEVER known that there is a pandemic. Talked to a local shop owner yesterday and, in a discussion on some of this, she said that her Mom "draws the line" at not giving up the usual Christmas celebration. So, there ya go. Tor is probably right - safer on board the ship in some respects than being in and around one's hometown assuming, again, that people follow the rules. I'm hopeful but not entirely convinced that'll happen. Once onboard, there will undoubtedly be SO much temptation to slip back into the old relaxed cruising mentality. Witness precautions for norovirus. Even without a pandemic, we see and hear about cruisers not washing their hands, sneezing / blowing their nose, etc. near the buffet lines and such. So...how can we even begin to guess at what level of responsible behavior there will be on especially bigger ships? 

[TayanaLorna]

14 hours ago, rbslos18 said:

This is as good as anyone can do. I know Viking will do its very best. The unaddressed problem is what if a carrier doesn't test positive until onboard?  Even with pretesting SeaDream ended up with a nightmare. I am proud of Viking going above and beyond. 

RB

Press coverage regarding the virus test on Sea Dream said it was Rapid Test but i don't know if it was a Rapid-PCR test.  Not all rapid tests can detect the virus within the first days of exposure. Sea Dream did not require masks once on board nor did they test everyone daily. I would hope that Viking requires masks and does daily testing for the first few days of the cruise until they are fairly satisfied that no one became infected in transit or on a pre cruise.  

[TayanaLorna]

2 hours ago, OnTheJourney said:

and adhere to ALL the protocols. We're not seeing that in the US. Drove by a local shopping center the other day and, from the looks of the parking lot, you would have NEVER known that there is a pandemic. Talked to a local shop owner yesterday and, in a discussion on some of this, she said that her Mom "draws the line" at not giving up the usual Christmas celebration. So, there ya go. Tor is probably right - safer on board the ship in some respects than being in and around one's hometown assuming, again, that people follow the rules. I'm hopeful but not entirely convinced that'll happen. Once onboard, there will undoubtedly be SO much temptation to slip back into the old relaxed cruising mentality. Witness precautions for norovirus. Even without a pandemic, we see and hear about cruisers not washing their hands, sneezing / blowing their nose, etc. near the buffet lines and such. So...how can we even begin to guess at what level of responsible behavior there will be on especially bigger ships? 

You are absolutely right regarding ALL adhering to the protocols.  Viking should probably require each passenger to sign an agreement to the protocol with violators being booted off the ship at their own expense.  People can get beligerant when told what to do.  Here in PR at San Juan airport a couple was told by the National Guard to put on their masks.  The guy attacked the NG member.  The NG are tasked with managing the health check/negative test requirement here.

[Jim Avery]

A small correction. Passengers onboard SeaDream reported daily testing and mask use was mandatory of course when the positive test appeared.

[Sunflower & The Scientist]

We were quite impressed with the update.  As noted by our "name", my husband is a scientist, and just prior to hearing this update, he had given a lecture on PCR.  The science in what they are doing onboard is good.  Just a quick view of the lab they will be putting on each ship, looks great.  

 

After seeing this, we are feeling more confident that Viking is doing everything they possibly can.  We too feel like we'd be safer on ship in our community.  

[OnTheJourney]

1 hour ago, TayanaLorna said:

with violators being booted off the ship at their own expense.  People can get beligerant when told what to do.

 

Sure...but it'll probably not happen. On a much smaller scale, people entering our church are supposed to wear masks, but - as I expected would happen - it was never enforced. AS a result, most do but not all. Some wear them til seated and them remove them. (I don't understand the logic behind that one at all). The ushers, etc., were told by our priest early on that they "should not turn anyone away". I disagree but, you know what? Money (weekly collection in the case of the church)  - or lack of it - ultimately drives many decisions. Pews were supposed to be roped off - so as to use every other one - that only lasted two weekends.

 

As to the belligerence - you bet. This whole thing has peoples' tempers and patience levels on a short fuse. Can see it in the more aggressive driving and increased number of accidents too - at least in our area. 

Edited December 9, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[Captain_Morgan]

3 hours ago, OnTheJourney said:

So, there ya go. Tor is probably right - safer on board the ship in some respects than being in and around one's hometown assuming, again, that people follow the rules.

 

Of course he's going to say that, just like a used car salesman will tell you the vehicle in question was only ever driven by a "little old lady, too and from church, once a week, etc..." 😆

Point being that its in his best interest to provide the most positive and favourable viewpoint of being on his ships whereas the reality (or concern) should be less about the level of cleanliness onboard and more about the status of people coming on!  I recall watching an interview with Arnold Donald (President of Carnival Corp) who said in his opinion being on the ships was safer than going to eat in a local restaurant, or shopping in a local store....but of course what he failed to mention is you don't tend to spend multiple days in relatively close proximity with hundreds of strangers in said restaurant so context is very important.

At the end of the day, the ship should be relatively sterile or at the very least 'COVID free' and its only when someone carrying the virus enters that the game changes...

[Captain_Morgan]

1 hour ago, TayanaLorna said:

Press coverage regarding the virus test on Sea Dream said it was Rapid Test but i don't know if it was a Rapid-PCR test.  Not all rapid tests can detect the virus within the first days of exposure. Sea Dream did not require masks once on board nor did they test everyone daily. I would hope that Viking requires masks and does daily testing for the first few days of the cruise until they are fairly satisfied that no one became infected in transit or on a pre cruise.  

 

I believe (and stand to be corrected) that the rapid tests being done on site were antigen tests and not PCR tests whereby the former can be done in a rapid format (ie. 15 minutes) using saliva whereas the latter has to be done in a lab setting with more sophisticated equipment and is much more accurate.

[OnTheJourney]

19 minutes ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Point being that its in his best interest to provide the most positive and favourable viewpoint of being on his ships whereas the reality (or concern) should be less about the level of cleanliness onboard and more about the status of people coming on! 

Although, in all fairness, there's really only so much the cruise industry can control. Their main focus almost has to be primarily centered on what happens once onboard. If some guy who KNOWS he has a fever and might even be covid-positive decides to pop a few ibuprofen two hours before he gets to pier check-in so as to clear embarkation, the cruise line can't do much about it. Even onboard, yeah, you're supposed to do the daily testing, but what will they do about those who don't follow through with it? Sorta like the old formal night / dressing up "requirement" - noone ever got thrown overboard a ship for not wearing a suit and tie. Self-responsibility and conscientiousness is still a big part of the overall picture. 

Edited December 9, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[Captain_Morgan]

59 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

Although, in all fairness, there's really only so much the cruise industry can control. Their main focus almost has to be primarily centered on what happens once onboard. If some guy who KNOWS he has a fever and might even be covid-positive decides to pop a few ibuprofen two hours before he gets to pier check-in so as to clear embarkation, the cruise line can't do much about it. Even onboard, yeah, you're supposed to do the daily testing, but what will they do about those who don't follow through with it? Sorta like the old formal night / dressing up "requirement" - noone ever got thrown overboard a ship for not wearing a suit and tie. Self-responsibility and conscientiousness is still a big part of the overall picture. 

 

I agree completely!  Sadly we still see people lying like cheap rugs when it comes to the embarkation health declarations for Noro-virus so why should anyone think this will be any different?  When you consider that the testing is not full proof in detecting cases, I can nearly 100% certain that people will slip beneath the radar so to speak and there will be issues until the vaccine is in place for enough people to at the very least prevent serious side effects.

[Porcupine 52]

1 hour ago, Captain_Morgan said:

 

I agree completely!  Sadly we still see people lying like cheap rugs when it comes to the embarkation health declarations for Noro-virus so why should anyone think this will be any different?  When you consider that the testing is not full proof in detecting cases, I can nearly 100% certain that people will slip beneath the radar so to speak and there will be issues until the vaccine is in place for enough people to at the very least prevent serious side effects.

So is the answer to shut down all cruising until 2022 or try your best and open up later this year with a lab and testing and maybe some of your passengers having the vaccine?  Not sure what the answer is?

Edited December 9, 2020 by Porcupine 52

[shank63]

19 hours ago, Redtravel said:

Sounds well thought out.  It may work provided all guests and crew remain healthy. Not sure if I like being restricted to taking ship excursions. Viking excursions are very good. However, having visited some ports previously and taken excursions, it is nice to visit a town on our own.  Hope that Viking offers a more extensive variety of excursions. 

The procedures appear to be the best any cruise line can do at this time.  As the covid vaccine becomes widely available, proof of vaccination may become a requirement  for all travel.  I hope to cruise in 2021, but not without being vaccinated.

[Captain_Morgan]

35 minutes ago, Porcupine 52 said:

So is the answer to shut down all cruising until 2022 or try your best and open up later this year with a lab and testing and maybe some of your passengers having the vaccine?  Not sure what the answer is?

Good question....but with that said, I fail to see how having a lab onboard will prevent COVID from occurring if its brought onboard, goes undetected, and then spreads.  Kind of like closing the gate after the horse has bolted...

 

 

[wineglass]

I agree that testing will never be 100%, but it’s the best we have at present. Just like everything else in our life at present, you either adapt to the new situation or just stay home until it’s over. It is what it is. If you don’t like masks, or “bubble” excursions or what ever, then just stay home until it is over.
one note in this announcement that no one has commented on: Tor said Viking hopes to start cruising in April. Not said, but probably in Europe. We have cruise on Viking Jupiter in July, so I hope he is right.

[OnTheJourney]

4 hours ago, shank63 said:

I hope to cruise in 2021, but not without being vaccinated.

 

I'd prefer not to without the vaccination also. We have this Chairman's cruise that is supposed to be rebooked for sometime this year yet. No idea what we'll decide to do. Hate to forego it, but if the vaccine hasn't come out yet and we're not comfortable going, so be it.  Were it not for this Chairman's cruise, though, I'd not book anything for next year yet. Have two rescheduled for '22 thus far. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[OnTheJourney]

46 minutes ago, wineglass said:

Not said, but probably in Europe.

 

Good point...could take longer for US cruises. Then again, are there even that many Viking cruises that go out of US ports? 

[Porcupine 52]

4 hours ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Good question....but with that said, I fail to see how having a lab onboard will prevent COVID from occurring if its brought onboard, goes undetected, and then spreads.  Kind of like closing the gate after the horse has bolted...

 

 

Sure don't know the answer.  But it seems like we are going to have many cruise lines go broke unless they can get started.  Maybe it is the survival of the fittest in the cruise industry.  It seems like Viking is trying some thing to get back cruising.  Will it work?  Who knows.  I have some friends that work in a college that does daily testing.  Like you said the only thing is does is to have a quicker shutdown when it is detected.  

 

I am rescheduling my Northern Lights trip to some thing in August.  Hoping the vaccine is working its way around by that time.  But not buying into the 25% voucher. Not sure that will help much if the industry is shut down all of next year.

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, wineglass said:

I agree that testing will never be 100%, but it’s the best we have at present. 

 

So true, testing may not be 100%, but it is better than nothing.

 

I happen to agree with the Chairman's comment that unless we turn into hermits, never leaving the house, life on board could have less risk than life at home outside the house.

 

Although our local numbers are significantly lower, by population, than other countries and other regions of Canada, we have experienced an increase since the summer. We now have instances of community transmission.

 

When out of the house, we wear masks, socially distance, etc - but how many people that we meet have been tested daily. Probably none. How many shoreside pubs, restaurants, malls, etc have sterilisation in the air handling units?

 

While testing isn't 100%, it is an extra layer of protection on the ships that isn't available to those of us at home.

[Captain_Morgan]

4 hours ago, Porcupine 52 said:

Sure don't know the answer.  But it seems like we are going to have many cruise lines go broke unless they can get started.  Maybe it is the survival of the fittest in the cruise industry.  It seems like Viking is trying some thing to get back cruising.  Will it work?  Who knows.  I have some friends that work in a college that does daily testing.  Like you said the only thing is does is to have a quicker shutdown when it is detected.  

 

No doubt about it that the industry is suffering, but to date we've seen nothing but optics and spin from a line which is standing still and putting out more advertising to no doubt bolster confidence which ultimately equals future cruise deposits.  I don't mean that as a slight, but when you see the lines which have restarted (TUI, MSC, Costa, Aida) none of them have labs onboard, none of them have banged the drum about what they're going to do to this extent and so far they all seem to be ticking over just fine albeit I'm sure they've had isolated cases onboard as its virtually inevitable at this point based on the level of spread seen around the world.

As I've said before, I think these efforts are going to be redundant in a short period of time due in large part to seemingly effective vaccines which I hope beyond hope get rolled out in short order.  Ultimately if there was so much effort being put in to a return to service with such high praise, why have cruises been cancelled again until the Spring?  Clearly Hagen & Co. are hedging their bets that enough of the Viking passenger base will have been vaccinated by the Spring that there might be a glimmer of hope that will allow them to cruise before the Summer, most likely in Europe on cruises to a very select few sympathetic ports or to nowhere at all which I don't think will be the case given the focus on tours, etc.

 

[Porcupine 52]

Let's face it the smart thing to do would be shut the world down until every one gets the vaccine.  But that is not going to happen.  I have 2 daughters that teach in schools.  Parents are mad when they go to school .... Parents are mad when they are online.  There is no right answer to all of this.  It seems so many people are angry right now.  And so many are depressed.  

 

In most cases people are trying to do the best they can with a terrible situation.  If I had any health concerns no way would I go on a cruise next year. If my wife was still alive there is no way we would be going any where until 2022.... at the earliest.  

 

I'm hoping that I got the real shot with the pfizer vaccine study that I am in ( will find out this week).  My daughter that is going with me should have a shot by the time we go in August because she is a nurse in the school system.    If they cancel again in August will try again next year.

[OnTheJourney]

8 hours ago, Porcupine 52 said:

Let's face it the smart thing to do would be shut the world down until every one gets the vaccine.

Yeah except you'd have a global economy in ruins. I'm not a business person and have never run a business, so I've always tried to view this from the perspective of those whose lives depend on it. Very difficult situation. Throw in a political war over the whole thing and all of that together is partly why we're not farther along in terms of reducing cases. As a retired public school teacher, I truly feel for your daughters and hope that all works out ok with them and the students. You are certainly correct - LOTS of anger and other strong emotions and, yes, depression. Very tough for those who already had drug / alcohol abuse issues as well before all this started. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[TayanaLorna]

On 12/9/2020 at 9:01 PM, OnTheJourney said:

 

Good point...could take longer for US cruises. Then again, are there even that many Viking cruises that go out of US ports? 

My guess is that cruises will begin in Europe and Great Britain first.  Perhaps Midnight Sun (Norway & GB).  Maybe Homelands and Med areas.   Will US cruises to Alaska begin in the summer?  Maybe not.  Then there is the Trans-Atlantic from Norway through Greenland to Canada in September?  Maybe.  Then that ship does a Montreal to NY running down to Fort Lauderdale in the Fall. Maybe.  The West Indies and Amazon cruises out of San Juan begin in December.  Probably.  If they do the West Indies cruises they need to get the ship there so the Barcelona to San Juan cruise in November would be a go.  Viking doesn't use many US ports and not until the summer or fall.