What do you think of Xs European cruises this summer, are others out yet.

[JRG]

17 hours ago, ldubs said:

But we think the bigger issue is what happens when anyone on a cruise ship develops COVID.  The CDC touched on this in their Guidelines when they specified that cruise lines need to have agreements with ports and hospitals (including transfer agreements).  But we think the bigger issue is what happens to everyone else on a cruise.   Will they need to quarantine? 

 

I think that there has been some development in this particular rabbit hole.   More specifically,  you have to remember now that ALL passengers should have now been (mandated?) vaccinated and there is less likelihood of mass spreading on ships now.

 

That was different from a few months ago when we didn't know about the availability of the VAXES.

 

In short,   I think we may have less to worry about here than before if somebody gets it while at sea.

 

Still,  though there needs to be some mechanism to transport gravely ill passengers should that occur while at sea.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by JRG

[ldubs]

On 1/13/2021 at 7:19 PM, Hlitner said:

I guess we can all speculate and later find out how we all erred.  When we flew down to Puerto Vallarta for the winter, DW asked me if I thought the US would allow us to return home in the Spring :).  We both laughed but I did say it was likely there would be some kind of testing requirement.   It does make sense and here in Mexico it is actually easier to get tests then at home.  

 

How the cruise lines deal with COVID, once they finally restart is another mystery.  Most of the cancellation "policies" that folks buy from the cruise lines (we do not purchase any insurance directly from cruise lines) is not even real insurance but rather a waiver program developed by the cruise lines.  Those waivers (sometimes called "cancel for any reason") are a profitable item for the cruise lines....but not true insurance.  I guess the cruise lines could come up with some kind of waiver program for COVID since most real insurance companies would not want to touch that issue.  

 

But we think the bigger issue is what happens when anyone on a cruise ship develops COVID.  The CDC touched on this in their Guidelines when they specified that cruise lines need to have agreements with ports and hospitals (including transfer agreements).  But we think the bigger issue is what happens to everyone else on a cruise.   Will they need to quarantine?  At whose expense?  Where?   For how long?  Will they have access to the public airlines?  A 100% mandatory vaccination policy does make it less likely that there would be any COVID cases on a cruise.  But even that is not a 100% guarantee.

 

Lots of questions which will likely need to be answered before the CDC grants their approval.

 

Hank

 

Thanks and I think you hit the nail on the head with the bigger issues.  Ultimately, I think the resolution is managing the virus at large.   BTW, the coverage I was referring to, whether deemed insurance or something else, was aimed specifically at folks who would be turned away because of a negative covid test.  Again,  my recollection could very well be wrong.  

[ldubs]

18 hours ago, JRG said:

 

I think that there has been some development in this particular rabbit hole.   More specifically,  you have to remember now that ALL passengers should have now been (mandated?) vaccinated and there is less likelihood of mass spreading on ships now.

 

That was different from a few months ago when we didn't know about the availability of the VAXES.

 

In short,   I think we may have less to worry about here than before if somebody gets it while at sea.

 

Still,  though there needs to be some mechanism to transport gravely ill passengers should that occur while at sea.

 

 

 

Hi JRG.  You are quoting me but that isn't my quote.  It was from Hlitner.   I've seen this glitch happen before.  Not sure why but anyway, while I wish I might have said that, it wasn't me.  😄

 

BTW, are vaccinations mandatory now for cruises?  I though that was still speculation, not that I disagree with it.   

Edited January 15, 2021 by ldubs
Added.

[Hlitner]

38 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Hi JRG.  You are quoting me but that isn't my quote.  It was from Hlitner.   I've seen this glitch happen before.  Not sure why but anyway, while I wish I might have said that, it wasn't me.  😄

 

BTW, are vaccinations mandatory now for cruises?  I though that was still speculation, not that I disagree with it.   

I have yet to see a published policy mandating 100% vaccinations for cruises.  But the issue has been discussed by the CEOs of two of large cruise corporations (NCL Holdings and RCI) and I am convinced that mandatory vaccinations will be required by the time there is a restart to cruising in the US.  As to Europe, I do not know if the same policy will happen on that side of the pond, but I would predict that it will be impossible to fly to Europe or Asia without having proof of vaccination.  

 

I said in another post that just about everything in life involves risk and the norm is to do our best to minimize the risk.  In the case of COVID the best way to minimize risk is a mandatory 100% vaccination policy.  While vaccinations may not be a perfect solution they are currently the ONLY solution.

 

Hank

[JRG]

57 minutes ago, ldubs said:

Hi JRG.  You are quoting me but that isn't my quote.  It was from Hlitner.   I've seen this glitch happen before.  Not sure why but anyway, while I wish I might have said that, it wasn't me.  😄

 

BTW, are vaccinations mandatory now for cruises?  I though that was still speculation, not that I disagree with it.   

 

No problem as I think we are in agreement in principle here.  I think asking for a mandate can be justified by the cruiselines at this point in time.

 

As to the original post and "What do I think of X's Euro cruise summer plans",   it seems like the wheels are falling off of the cart.  

 

We loved the Constellation in the Med,  did the S2 suite from Rome to Barcelona in July right after the record heat wave in 2019 and signed up for 3 more which have now fizzled away.

 

It seems like the timing of their cancellations now are forcing booked passengers to take the refund with both parties knowing they will be re-booking in the future at significantly higher prices.    The other options for 125% FCC or re-booking on the slim remaining choices for 2021 have no appeal.  Option 4 is looking good right now which is the La Jolla Lift, given the amount of time we may have to wait until we cruise again.

 

No complaints here though because we've done 8 cruises in the prior 3 years so we've been lucky.  We might hang onto 1 future booking and see what happens with the test cruises and overseas.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by JRG

[wowzz]

The issue,  as I see it from a Brit point of view,  is that you can only get the vaccine when you are eligible for it. 

So, how can a cruise line say that only those that have been vaccinated can cruise, when an individual just has to wait theur turn for vaccination. 

A large percentage of the under  50s in Europe will not get the vaccine. Does that mean they cannot cruise ?

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, wowzz said:

The issue,  as I see it from a Brit point of view,  is that you can only get the vaccine when you are eligible for it. 

So, how can a cruise line say that only those that have been vaccinated can cruise, when an individual just has to wait theur turn for vaccination. 

A large percentage of the under  50s in Europe will not get the vaccine. Does that mean they cannot cruise ?

 

I guess you mean it is unfair to  those who through no fault of their own couldn't get the vaccine.  In reality,  cruising, at least around the US, isn't likely to be happening for several months and perhaps not until next year.  By then the vaccine(s) rationing will hopefully be over.  

 

While I am in favor of a vaccine requirement for cruising, I'm just not convinced it is actually going to be implemented.   Who knows, maybe in the future there will be no vaccine cruises and vaccine only cruises! 😄😄 

[SelectSys]

 

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

While I am in favor of a vaccine requirement for cruising, I'm just not convinced it is actually going to be implemented.  

 

For vaccines to be required, the pace is going to need to pick up substantially.  Other than Israel and the UAE which both benefit from being a small countries both in terms of area and population, no other nation is really going all that fast.  Without this pickup in vaccination rates, cruising won't be happening anytime soon.

 

BTW - don't forget the crews!

 

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Edited January 16, 2021 by SelectSys

[cruisemom42]

17 hours ago, wowzz said:

The issue,  as I see it from a Brit point of view,  is that you can only get the vaccine when you are eligible for it. 

So, how can a cruise line say that only those that have been vaccinated can cruise, when an individual just has to wait theur turn for vaccination. 

A large percentage of the under  50s in Europe will not get the vaccine. Does that mean they cannot cruise ?

 

Do you mean that they will not have the vaccine because they are not yet eligible, or do you mean because they choose not to be vaccinated?  Vastly different scenarios...

 

I don't think cruises are going to be sailing until summer at the earliest, and even then it will be limited. Maybe toward the end of this capacity will increase. What is the vaccine rollout schedule in Europe?  I rather see the two things (vaccination numbers and cruise capacities) moving forward in tandem, which shouldn't present a real problem.

 

On the other hand, if someone chooses not to get vaccinated, it is certainly their choice but it may also lead to consequences such as being excluded from cruises going forward. At least that is one possibility in the near future.

 

[cruisemom42]

40 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

Maybe toward the end of this capacity will increase.

 

Sorry, meant to say "toward the end of this year."

[wowzz]

5 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Do you mean that they will not have the vaccine because they are not yet eligible, or do you mean because they choose not to be vaccinated?  Vastly different scenarios...

The UK is not planning to vaccinate those under 50, unless they are in specific categories (eg health care workers). Therefore millions of people will not get the vaccine, even if they want to have it. So, for a cruise line, airline, hotel etc to discriminate against those that have not been vaccinated, through no fault of their own, is totally unfair.

[Sea42]

2 minutes ago, wowzz said:

The UK is not planning to vaccinate those under 50, unless they are in specific categories (eg health care workers). Therefore millions of people will not get the vaccine, even if they want to have it. So, for a cruise line, airline, hotel etc to discriminate against those that have not been vaccinated, through no fault of their own, is totally unfair.

That doesn't appear to be correct

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833

What is the plan?

The government aims to offer vaccines to 15 million people - the over-70s, healthcare workers and those required to shield - by mid-February and millions more by spring. By autumn, the rest of the adult population, another 21 million people, will be offered a vaccine.

The speedy rollout of the vaccine to vulnerable people is seen as critical to reducing the pandemic's death toll and relieving pressure on the NHS.

[wowzz]

21 minutes ago, Sea42 said:

That doesn't appear to be correct

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833

What is the plan?

The government aims to offer vaccines to 15 million people - the over-70s, healthcare workers and those required to shield - by mid-February and millions more by spring. By autumn, the rest of the adult population, another 21 million people, will be offered a vaccine.

The speedy rollout of the vaccine to vulnerable people is seen as critical to reducing the pandemic's death toll and relieving pressure on the NHS.

Sorry, but I see no mention in your link regarding vaccinating the under 50s. 

 

[Sea42]

2 minutes ago, wowzz said:

By autumn, the rest of the adult population, another 21 million people, will be offered a vaccine.

 

2 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Sorry, but I see no mention in your link regarding vaccinating the under 50s.

 

[wowzz]

29 minutes ago, Sea42 said:

 

 

If you read this, you will see that the under 50s will not be vaccinated. Scroll through to the list of priority groups.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/covid-19-vaccine-authorised-by-medicines-regulator#:~:text=• Residents in a care,years of age and over

Edited January 17, 2021 by wowzz

[cruisemom42]

23 hours ago, wowzz said:

 

A large percentage of the under  50s in Europe will not get the vaccine. Does that mean they cannot cruise ?

 

53 minutes ago, wowzz said:

The UK is not planning to vaccinate those under 50, unless they are in specific categories (eg health care workers). Therefore millions of people will not get the vaccine, even if they want to have it. So, for a cruise line, airline, hotel etc to discriminate against those that have not been vaccinated, through no fault of their own, is totally unfair.

 

First you said "in Europe" and now you seem to only be talking about the UK.

 

Also, on the Gov.UK website under vaccination plans, they lay out the plans for the groups (same as in the link given above) but there is also this statement:

 

"Please wait your turn. If you are not in the groups above, you will have to wait for a COVID-19 vaccination until more supplies are available. When more vaccine becomes available we will be offering it to more groups of the population."

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

First you said "in Europe" and now you seem to only be talking about the UK.

 

Also, on the Gov.UK website under vaccination plans, they lay out the plans for the groups (same as in the link given above) but there is also this statement:

 

"Please wait your turn. If you are not in the groups above, you will have to wait for a COVID-19 vaccination until more supplies are available. When more vaccine becomes available we will be offering it to more groups of the population."

Yes, but not to the under 50s, unless in specific occupations, or with underlying health issues.

All I am saying is, that the UK,  like most European countries,  is not going to give the vaccine to the younger age cohort (under 50) unless  for specific reasons. Seems logical to me,  especially as it seems very likely that a second round of vaccinations will be required next autumn due to the new mutant strains that are developing.

[Sea42]

6 minutes ago, wowzz said:

If you read this, you will see that the under 50s will not be vaccinated. Scroll through to the list of priority groups.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/covid-19-vaccine-authorised-by-medicines-regulator#:~:text=• Residents in a care,years of age and over

That link states that the priority list will be updated as they move through the process with the current groups listed.

[Hlitner]

5 hours ago, wowzz said:

The UK is not planning to vaccinate those under 50, unless they are in specific categories (eg health care workers). Therefore millions of people will not get the vaccine, even if they want to have it. So, for a cruise line, airline, hotel etc to discriminate against those that have not been vaccinated, through no fault of their own, is totally unfair.

Hmm.  My friends in the UK have told me (for years) about the wonderful NHS!  But the reality is that the priority of airlines, hotels, cruise lines, etc. should be to protect their clients...not the NHS.  Perhaps your discrimination issue is with your own government.   Personally I prefer to go on airlines and cruise lines that will implement mandatory vaccination policies.  That kind of policy is simply common sense....not discrimination.

 

And what about governments that will demand vaccinations as a requirement of entry.   In their minds they would simply be protecting their own populations.  Would you have them make exceptions for the UK citizens under age 50?  It seems to me your issue is with your own NHS....not with the airlines, cruise lines, etc.

 

Hank

[davecttr]

There is a report in the 'quality' press this morning that the government is discussing an extremely ambitious target of offering the vaccine to all over 18's by June this year. Elsewhere the term 'offered' is described because vaccination will not be compulsory. I think that those who refuse will have to accept any resulting restrictions on travel etc.

Edited January 17, 2021 by davecttr