Saga UK , normal cruising, but everyone has to be vaccinated, will Cunard follow

[ace2542]

4 minutes ago, LittleFish1976 said:

Electronic health passports are expected to be used. Surely there's no reason why the information of a medical exemption couldn't be included in that document.

I wonder how these electronic health passport will mesh with European GDPR legislation? That is something has not been mentioned.

[nosapphire]

On 1/23/2021 at 11:12 AM, ace2542 said:

So perhaps this is an indication of how desperate they are to resume sailing and ergo of their financial position if this is desperation. Maybe they are at a stage now where unless they can keep the majority of customer money in their accounts as opposed to refunds/securing future bookings they may go the way of Cruise/Maritime.

Saga Ocean cruise have 2 new ships which are both on 100% mortgages.

The last thing any bank needs at the minute is to discover it owns a cruise ship - so the banks who supply the mortgage will have a very good reason to make sure that Saga can successfully restructure their debt in order for Saga to remain in business - which I believe has already been done.

Plus the original owner of Saga has returned to the board along with an injection of his own money (think it was 1million pounds sterling).

Like all holiday companies, Saga would prefer to retain customer money rather than refund - but those who have asked for refunds get their money back in an average 3 to 7 days.

I may be wrong but I think the situation with Saga is a very long way from the situation of CMV.

[Underwatr]

On 1/27/2021 at 7:20 AM, ace2542 said:

I wonder how these electronic health passport will mesh with European GDPR legislation? That is something has not been mentioned.

 

Health data may be processed "when processing is needed for reasons of substantial public interest, on the basis of EU or national law."

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/data-protection/data-protection-gdpr/index_en.htm

[seapals2]

The whole basis of cruising is to visit different countries.  It’s too early to know if variants will emerge abroad that the current vaccine is not effective against.  Until all countries have got a vaccination programme to equal ours in the UK I am unlikely to risk far off shores.  Australia haven’t even begun a vaccination programme but I expect Australians will want to cruise.  
 

[LittleFish1976]

1 hour ago, seapals2 said:

The whole basis of cruising is to visit different countries.  It’s too early to know if variants will emerge abroad that the current vaccine is not effective against.  Until all countries have got a vaccination programme to equal ours in the UK I am unlikely to risk far off shores.  Australia haven’t even begun a vaccination programme but I expect Australians will want to cruise.  
 

 

I can confirm that Australians will want to cruise! The vaccination programme here is now being spoken of as starting late February or early March. We are hoping for a delivery of some 80,000 doses of the Pfizer vaccine to get us started. We are in the process of manufacturing the AstraZeneca vaccine but there will be none ready to go until late March; most of the AZ vaccine we are relying on to cover our population, quite frankly, is to be made here but we were expecting a 'starter' delivery of the AZ from Europe (Belgium?) early this year of some 3.8 million doses. We have been told this will now be in the order of 1.2 million instead and also we have the uncertain situation of whether we will be receiving any at all as the EU are reluctant to let go of whatever is made within their borders (as you all know) and this is where ours were coming from. Our Pfizer delivery is in the same situation so we may be in the situation of not being able to start our vaccination programme at all until we have some locally made product.

 

We have our fingers crossed for commencement in March but we will have to wait and see.

 

As far as tourists being allowed to come to Australia, I cannot see that being possible until our entire population has been vaccinated (all who wish to have it and we tend to have a very high uptake of vaccinations here). Our government says that level of vaccination will occur by October, 2021 but I'll eat my hat if it is; more likely by the end of year or early 2022.

 

I think you can be pretty sure that to be allowed to come here (once our vaccination rate is as high as it's going to be, probably around the 95% mark) you will need to have been vaccinated.

 

As far as other strains that the current generation of vaccines won't cover, I think we definitely will continue to see them increase and become more deadly. It seems that's how the virus develops - quite frightening really. I listened to a webcast from the Novavax company the other day (available via their website - 'past events') and they believe we'll be looking at possible tri- or quadrivalent vaccines in the next generation, I guess as soon as next year or later this year, to cover the newly emerging strains. Seems it's very quick and easy to tweak the structure of the mRNA vaccines.

 

The vaccinating of the African countries will be a huge job and one that needs to start now and be supported by all the wealthier nations. The faster that can happen the fewer dangerous variants we'll see coming from there. Surely, if it takes until 2024 which is what the experts are saying (at the current rate) it will be an absolute catastrophe both for them and the rest of the world. So yes, I agree with you about not even contemplating cruising to other far-away lands until this is wholly knocked on the head.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by LittleFish1976

[seapals2]

Thankfully you are in the fortunate position of having very few cases and your government is swift to act to protect the rest of the community.  
Today the news here is the S African variant is now spreading and the current vaccine although works is probably only 60% effective.   We could soon be in a constant vaccination programme.  Cruising isn’t an option under these circumstances.  Someone could be vaccinated and still take a new variant onboard and crew will be exposed to  very mixed population.  

[Windsurfboy]

I understand the AZ vaccine is being made under licence in Australia,  but as EU found out to quote D Van Tam "it's not like making yogurt" , but hopefully you'll have a secure supply this year. 

[ace2542]

11 hours ago, seapals2 said:

Thankfully you are in the fortunate position of having very few cases and your government is swift to act to protect the rest of the community.  
Today the news here is the S African variant is now spreading and the current vaccine although works is probably only 60% effective.   We could soon be in a constant vaccination programme.  Cruising isn’t an option under these circumstances.  Someone could be vaccinated and still take a new variant onboard and crew will be exposed to  very mixed population.  

They will be able to tweak the vaccines in a short period of time. But yeah cruising will never ever resume if it goes like that. Many industry people reckon they can only hold  out till some point in 2022 before being in real serious trouble.

[Victoria2]

18 hours ago, seapals2 said:

Thankfully you are in the fortunate position of having very few cases and your government is swift to act to protect the rest of the community.  
Today the news here is the S African variant is now spreading and the current vaccine although works is probably only 60% effective.   We could soon be in a constant vaccination programme.  Cruising isn’t an option under these circumstances.  Someone could be vaccinated and still take a new variant onboard and crew will be exposed to  very mixed population.  

If yearly vaccinations become the norm, which is a distinct possibility, why would the crew be at any more of a risk than passengers, presuming they'd be vaccinated too?

This virus seems to be evolving and the virologists will hopefully be able to tweak their vaccines accordingly.

Just my opinion but the world cannot hibernate forever. We might have to accept this virus and its strains are with us in the community and as long as cruise companies are operational, those of us who want to holiday at sea must use our own judgement whether to cruise, or not.

[Windsurfboy]

3 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

 

Just my opinion but the world cannot hibernate forever. We might have to accept this virus and its strains are with us in the community and as long as cruise companies are operational, those of us who want to holiday at sea must use our own judgement whether to cruise, or not.

 

Completely agree we must get on with life. Hopefully once we've vaccinated the over 50s and vunerable who account for 99% of deaths we will fell more confident.  I just hope our governments are generous and invest in a vaccination manufacturing capacity so we can vaccinate and re-vaccinate the whole  world every year.

[Windsurfboy]

PS if you look at South African covid statistics,  they've contained the virus after no restrictions at Christmas and a lot of mixing,  with a lockdown similar to European countries . Cases have fallen by 75% and deaths have been less than similiar sized countries. 

 

I'm not saying we should be complacent  but we must have hope.

[ace2542]

4 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

Just my opinion but the world cannot hibernate forever. We might have to accept this virus and its strains are with us in the community and as long as cruise companies are operational, those of us who want to holiday at sea must use our own judgement whether to cruise, or not

Depends why we are hibernating. Some people not me but some people reckon this is conspiracy to destroying nightlife, and cruising industry maybe and even to buy time in the fight against Global Warming.

 

But yes eventually we will have to accept it. That isn't the cold war. You can't beat it by outspending it the way we beat the soviets by simply outspending them.

 

I live like a 3rd of a mile away from the boundry of the postcode PR9 which is going into increased testing. But I don't shop on that town so we will be ok.

[lissie]

So now another cruise line has announced compulsory vaccination before boarding - I think this is a very promising development. https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5858/ 

 

I suspect I'm with the vast majority of people who won't cruise if unvaccinated people are allowed on board. 

[nosapphire]

On 2/3/2021 at 8:26 PM, lissie said:

So now another cruise line has announced compulsory vaccination before boarding - I think this is a very promising development. https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5858/ 

 

I suspect I'm with the vast majority of people who won't cruise if unvaccinated people are allowed on board. 

How will you know?

[oskidunker]

3 hours ago, nosapphire said:

How will you know?

Cunard will decide soon.

[lissie]

3 hours ago, nosapphire said:

How will you know?

 I don't - that's why I said "I suspect" .   

 

However  both airlines (Qantas) and countries (Seyshelles) are starting to say they will only deal with vaccinated  visitors/customers. 

 

If a cruise line allows unvaccinated people on board and that causes an outbreak on board - that impacts the holidays of those who are vaccinated - imagine the lawsuits.. Plus I'd imagine most countries won't allow a ship with unvaccinated people on board to dock (why would you?) 

 

Here's the growing list of countries that will let you with a vaccination https://thepointsguy.com/guide/country-by-country-guide-to-where-you-can-go-if-youre-vaccinated/

 

Its all  very good news so far with the vaccine roll outs - personally it seems unlikely that I'll have access to a vaccine before the end of the year - but I'm totally planning 2022 as the year of travel 

[LittleFish1976]

On 2/2/2021 at 11:16 PM, Windsurfboy said:

PS if you look at South African covid statistics,  they've contained the virus after no restrictions at Christmas and a lot of mixing,  with a lockdown similar to European countries . Cases have fallen by 75% and deaths have been less than similiar sized countries. 

 

I'm not saying we should be complacent  but we must have hope.

 

This is not quite correct. The figures are coming down at the moment in South Africa but only after a massive spike in infections due to increased mixing over Christmas. They reached a high of nearly 22,000 new cases on the 11th January compared to 2,080 on 23rd November and 14,796 on 25th December.

 

The uncontained spread has also given the world the 'gift' of a highly mutated strain of the virus which is both much more transmissable but also more deadly.

 

Maybe people need to realise that uncontrolled spread increases the mutations meaning we are so longer dealing with the same virus.

 

 

 

 

[nosapphire]

10 hours ago, lissie said:

 I don't - that's why I said "I suspect" .   

 

However  both airlines (Qantas) and countries (Seyshelles) are starting to say they will only deal with vaccinated  visitors/customers. 

 

If a cruise line allows unvaccinated people on board and that causes an outbreak on board - that impacts the holidays of those who are vaccinated - imagine the lawsuits.. Plus I'd imagine most countries won't allow a ship with unvaccinated people on board to dock (why would you?) 

 

Here's the growing list of countries that will let you with a vaccination https://thepointsguy.com/guide/country-by-country-guide-to-where-you-can-go-if-youre-vaccinated/

 

Its all  very good news so far with the vaccine roll outs - personally it seems unlikely that I'll have access to a vaccine before the end of the year - but I'm totally planning 2022 as the year of travel 

I meant, how will you know if "unvaccinated people are allowed on board"?

Or were you referring only to passengers?

[LittleFish1976]

32 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

I meant, how will you know if "unvaccinated people are allowed on board"?

Or were you referring only to passengers?

 

I think it would be a red flag in that direction if the cruise line did not insist on all passengers and crew and staff being vaccinated. I certainly would not sail with such a line and under those circumstances.

 

 

[Windsurfboy]

14 hours ago, LittleFish1976 said:

 

This is not quite correct. The figures are coming down at the moment in South Africa but only after a massive spike in infections due to increased mixing over Christmas. They reached a high of nearly 22,000 new cases on the 11th January compared to 2,080 on 23rd November and 14,796 on 25th December.

 

The uncontained spread has also given the world the 'gift' of a highly mutated strain of the virus which is both much more transmissable but also more deadly.

 

Maybe people need to realise that uncontrolled spread increases the mutations meaning we are so longer dealing with the same virus.

 

 

 

 

 

South Africa has a similar population to UK so you can make direct comparisons

 

They had a lot more mixing over Christmas than UK

 

SA Cases peaked at circa 20,000 as you said and the 7 day average is now 4100.

 

UK cases peaked at 60,000 plus and are now down to just under 20,000. Clearly the spread was more uncontrolled in UK, and slower to come down than SA

 

It says to me, the S.A. variant is no more contagious than UK  Kent variant , most probably much less, but it has been used to scare us. We have seen variants appearing spontaneously in the UK. 

 

The focus on foreign variants to me is a distraction, perhaps scaremongering  to justify longer lockdown. The main thing is if you can get levels in UK down, and R under one as we are starting to do , then new variants will not grow exponentially,  unless they have characteristics unlike any other Coronavirus, which no one is predicting. Vaccinating everyone will reduce R by 2/3rds.

 

Blaming Johnny foreigner and Travel is any easy target for politicians to look tough. They think holidays are a luxury we can do without,  and celebrities dodging the rules haven't helped. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[resistk]

Am reading in the MSM travel will not get back to normal until 2024 when they project everyone in the world will finally be vaccinated.  I can tell you that is optimistic given the feeble effort being made here in South Carolina which has one of the highest COVID rates in the world. USA has a third rate public health system and will take at least another 6-12 months IMO. You really want to cruise with face masks outside the cabin, social distancing and possibilities of lockdowns or port closures?

[ace2542]

17 minutes ago, resistk said:

Am reading in the MSM travel will not get back to normal until 2024 when they project everyone in the world will finally be vaccinated.  I can tell you that is optimistic given the feeble effort being made here in South Carolina which has one of the highest COVID rates in the world. USA has a third rate public health system and will take at least another 6-12 months IMO. You really want to cruise with face masks outside the cabin, social distancing and possibilities of lockdowns or port closures?

The cruise industry will not survive until 2024 then will it? Because  many people on here myself among them will not cruise if they have to wear masks and all the other things and face masks might be required on outdoor balconies as well you know. They may very well be. And if a trip is going to be terminated because of a single case and people locked on a cruise ship for weeks on end then there is no point in going.

Edited February 6, 2021 by ace2542

[ace2542]

On 2/5/2021 at 5:40 PM, Windsurfboy said:

The main thing is if you can get levels in UK down, and R under one as we are starting to do , then new variants will not grow exponentially,  unless they have characteristics unlike any other Coronavirus, which no one is predicting. Vaccinating everyone will reduce R by 2/3rds

I have heard it said in some media that the so called R number will remain above 1 even with the entire country being vaccinated and the vaccine reducing spread. And the entire country will not be vaccinated not even close. So the pandemic is here forever if that is the case. At least in the winter months. And Cunard can't just cruise summer months. No line can.

[Windsurfboy]

.

16 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

I have heard it said in some media that the so called R number will remain above 1 even with the entire country being vaccinated and the vaccine reducing spread. And the entire country will not be vaccinated not even close. So the pandemic is here forever if that is the case. At least in the winter months. And Cunard can't just cruise summer months. No line can.

 

I've  heard it said on some media the earth was flat

[d9704011]

2 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

.

 

I've  heard it said on some media the earth was flat

Are you insinuating that it’s not?  Huh....