Venice bans cruise ships from historic centre

[Quasar1011]

"Large ships will now have to dock at the city's industrial port until a permanent solution is found."

Story here:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56592109

[Lonedaddy]

The article didn't say what a " large ship" is in this recent ruling.  It did mentioned ships over 96k tons were banned previously.  If it is under that then ships like the regent SS mariner can still dock (48K tons)

[LEtue]

We have been discussing this on our Brilliance of the Seas roll call for May 2022.  It seems that Celebrity hasn't changed their arrivals/departures for the Constellation which is the same size.  However, we will be using Ravenna so I wish there was a solution for Venice that didn't mean we have to commute 2 hours -making it difficult to visit even on turn around day of our B2B 😕

[Hlitner]

For those of us familiar with the decades old controversy regarding cruise ships in Venice, what has been happening in Italy is not a surprise.  Since we are talking about Italy,  the way this all plays out is going to be fraught with uncertainty until it happens. We have heard that ship over 95,000 tons will be banned and we have also heard that the limit will be 40,000 tons.  But the authorities have not even dealt with the issue of how to move thousands of cruise ship passengers between the commercial port at Marghera and Venice. For ships using Ravenna, I do feel sorry for the passengers as that is not a good solution to visit Venice.  My advice to cruisers who want to visit Venice is to plan a pre or post cruise stay in Italy and go to Venice for a few days.   As to the Brilliance of the Seas, we are talking about a ship that can hold about 2500 passengers. With COVID restrictions perhaps that will be reduced to 1800 (this is just my guess) which means they would need about 35 buses to move all those souls between Ravenna and Venice.   And the only place that buses can go within Venice is the Piazale Roma which is not well equipped to handle 35 tour buses.   Yes, it can be done but it will not be pretty,

 

Hank

[steamboats]

Hank,

 

don´t forget that they are not allowed to fill up the busses to capacity due to Covid-19! In Greece they were allowed to place 30 or 32 people on a bus with 50 or more seats.

 

The cruise terminal in Marghera still has to be built (but at least there are already plans for it). The offshore cruise terminal is still in an "sort of an idea stage with some plans".

 

Ravenna is a great port but there is no cruise terminal just a tent. The small port is far outside the city center. There´s no airport near.

 

steamboats

[NeilonBoard]

On 5/2/2021 at 2:03 PM, Hlitner said:

For those of us familiar with the decades old controversy regarding cruise ships in Venice, what has been happening in Italy is not a surprise.  Since we are talking about Italy,  the way this all plays out is going to be fraught with uncertainty until it happens. We have heard that ship over 95,000 tons will be banned and we have also heard that the limit will be 40,000 tons.  But the authorities have not even dealt with the issue of how to move thousands of cruise ship passengers between the commercial port at Marghera and Venice. For ships using Ravenna, I do feel sorry for the passengers as that is not a good solution to visit Venice.  My advice to cruisers who want to visit Venice is to plan a pre or post cruise stay in Italy and go to Venice for a few days.   As to the Brilliance of the Seas, we are talking about a ship that can hold about 2500 passengers. With COVID restrictions perhaps that will be reduced to 1800 (this is just my guess) which means they would need about 35 buses to move all those souls between Ravenna and Venice.   And the only place that buses can go within Venice is the Piazale Roma which is not well equipped to handle 35 tour buses.   Yes, it can be done but it will not be pretty,

 

Hank

 

Royal Caribbean have already advised that shuttle buses from Venice to the port of Ravenna will only depart and return from Venice airport.

[LEtue]

Yes, there will only be transfers to the airport so that eliminates our ability to visit the city on turn around day 😒.   I have been to Venice before as an overnight stop on a previous cruise but it would have been nice to visit again.  So unless there is an excursion option we will be out of luck.  Just find it interesting that the Constellation isn't impacted.

 

May 2022 is still a year away and things could change.....

 

 

[Eve49]

On 5/3/2021 at 6:21 PM, LEtue said:

Yes, there will only be transfers to the airport so that eliminates our ability to visit the city on turn around day 😒.   I have been to Venice before as an overnight stop on a previous cruise but it would have been nice to visit again.  So unless there is an excursion option we will be out of luck.  Just find it interesting that the Constellation isn't impacted.

 

May 2022 is still a year away and things could change.....

 

 

It's a pretty easy train ride (with 1 stop) from Venice to Ravenna...a little over 2 hours. I'm staying in Venice for a week and then I'm going to take the train to Ravenna the day before my cruise and stay a night in that beautiful historic city...after the cruise, I'll take the train back to Venice that same day and stay an extra day in Venice and fly out...it's really simple.

 

July 10, 2022 is my cruise...can't wait after my last one was cancelled due to Covid.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Eve49

[LEtue]

28 minutes ago, Eve49 said:

It's a pretty easy train ride (with 1 stop) from Venice to Ravenna...a little over 2 hours. I'm staying in Venice for a week and then I'm going to take the train to Ravenna the day before my cruise and stay a night in that beautiful historic city...after the cruise, I'll take the train back to Venice that same day and stay an extra day in Venice and fly out...it's really simple.

 

July 10, 2022 is my cruise...can't wait after my last one was cancelled due to Covid.

We are not opposed to taking a train but the time and distance limits what you can actually see/do in a short visit.  

[Host Jazzbeau]

On 5/2/2021 at 1:35 AM, steamboats said:

Hank,

 

don´t forget that they are not allowed to fill up the busses to capacity due to Covid-19! In Greece they were allowed to place 30 or 32 people on a bus with 50 or more seats.

 

The cruise terminal in Marghera still has to be built (but at least there are already plans for it). The offshore cruise terminal is still in an "sort of an idea stage with some plans".

 

Ravenna is a great port but there is no cruise terminal just a tent. The small port is far outside the city center. There´s no airport near.

 

steamboats

But the same forces that are demanding the cruise ship ban will do everything they can to stop/delay it.  They don't want cruise ships anywhere in the lagoon.

[steamboats]

And that´s the basic dilemma in Venice... Nobody knows what to do but everything is opposed.

 

steamboats

[Host Jazzbeau]

Viking Ocean is doing their Adriatic cruises rt Malta – avoids Venice but adds a sea day on each end:

https://www.vikingcruises.com/oceans/cruise-destinations/eastern-mediterranean/malta-and-adriatic-jewels/index.html

[MBP&O2/O]

I have just posted this on another thread. 
 

See ...

https://europeforvisitors.com/venice/articles/venice-cruising-changes.ht

 
It says ...

 

Don't believe the hype that you read about cruise ships being banned from central Venice. Talk is cheap, but the Italian government has yet to come up with firm plans (or cash) to build a new port outside the city.

 

The Italian government announced on April 1, 2021 that large cruise ships are being banned from central Venice, including the existing cruise port.

The government's stated goal is to create a new artificial harbor and cruise port on the Adriatic at some unspecified time in the future, with ships using the mainland industrial port of Marghera (opposite Venice' s historic center) until a new port is built.

 

There are at least five major problems with this proposed solution:

First, the industrial ship channel that leads to Marghera isn't deep or wide enough for large cruise ships, and dredging it would be (a) massively expensive, (b) environmentally detrimental to the Venetian Lagoon, and (c) prohibited by law.

Second, the Marghera industrial port will require a new terminal and other infrastructure to support cruise ships.

Third, Italian law forbids operating passenger services in polluted or high-risk industrial areas such as the Marghera port.

Fourth, the Italian government has not committed to financing a new port on the Adriatic. Talk is cheap--especially in Italy, where various political and NIMBY groups have been fighting over the port for more than a decade.

Finally, Italian governments are notorious for being short-lived, and future governments won't necessarily abide by the current government's announcement.

(Side note: Proponents of a new cruise port want to locate it on the Lido di Venezia, Venice's beach resort. This idea is nothing short of idiotic, since the Lido is an island that can only be reached by passenger boat or car ferry, making it impractical for provisioning large cruise ships.)

What's happening in 2021:

Cruise lines' plans in general are in flux right now, due to the COVID-19 pandemic. However, MSC Cruises has also announced that of its ships will be sailing from Venice this summer, and other lines will almost certainly follow MSC's lead as the industry returns to normal.

It's also worth noting that the government's supposed plans won't affect cruise ships under 40,000 tons.

 

 Interesting?

 

However, which tonnage is classified as ‘large’ is debatable!

DWT?

Net?

Gross?

[cruisemom42]

You did leave out the last paragraph which mentions that at least some ships are proactively anticipating any upcoming changes: 

 

"A few changes have been announced: Royal Caribbean is reportedly shifting its home port in the region from Venice to Revenna (a far less convenient location for cruisers), and Costa will use Trieste for some of its cruises this summer."

 

Also, of course, this is opinion, so take it as such. I agree Italy does not act fast but I do suspect it is gaining traction and probably not least in the mix is that I imagine certain agencies like UNESCO may be pressuring them to take some action.

 

Also, this sentence makes no sense -- did the author leave out a number?

 

"However, MSC Cruises has also announced that (?) of its ships will be sailing from Venice this summer, and other lines will almost certainly follow MSC's lead as the industry returns to normal."

 

What did they leave out?  All of its ships?  None of its ships?  A few of its ships?

 

[dogs4fun]

18 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

What did they leave out?  All of its ships?  None of its ships?  A few of its ships?

Wondering the same as well.  Checking online, the Orchestra offers quite a few 7night cruises rt from Venice or rt from Bari with a Venice port visit. The Sinfonia also offers 4 cruises that departs from Venice.

There are also 2022 MSC cruises that are currently listed as visiting Venice (Lirica & Musica). Time will tell if these cruises do, in fact, actually dock in Venice.

 

[LEtue]

We canceled our B2B cruise and moved to a RT Celebrity sailing out of Rome due the challenges presented by Ravenna.  

 

We would not have had enough time to visit Venice the right way on turnaround day and flight options home after the second leg were limited.

[steamboats]

Actually 3 big ships are sailing out of Venice this summer:

 

MSC Orchestra

MSC Magnifica

Costa Deliziosa

 

steamboats

 

[cruisemom42]

8 hours ago, steamboats said:

Actually 3 big ships are sailing out of Venice this summer:

 

MSC Orchestra

MSC Magnifica

Costa Deliziosa

 

steamboats

 

 

Thanks -- all 3 listed above are in the 90,000+ tonnage but not above 100K. So (for now) looks like no changes have been made from previous few years. I wonder if it will stick.  

 

Are these ships already sailing out of Venice, and if not, when are they scheduled to start?

[steamboats]

56 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Thanks -- all 3 listed above are in the 90,000+ tonnage but not above 100K. So (for now) looks like no changes have been made from previous few years. I wonder if it will stick.  

 

Are these ships already sailing out of Venice, and if not, when are they scheduled to start?

 

The cruise lines have limited themselves to 96 k. So no bigger ships anyway.

 

None of the three is already cruising:

 

Costa Deliziosa - June 26th

MSC Orchestra - June 5th

MSC Magnifica - June 20th

 

steamboats

[Host Jazzbeau]

As predicted, the Venice ban remains fog on the lagoon:

Cruise ship sighting in Venice raises eyebrows

[steamboats]

That was the announced first port call of the MSC Orchestra. So nothing surprising. MSC and Costa announced that they will still depart from Venice.

 

By May 28th the treaty Venice Blue Flag 2021 was signed by the city of Venice and several cruise lines. This includes that ships have to limit their sulphur emissions to 0.1 % within a range of 15 miles to go into the port of Venice.

 

steamboats

[mapleleaves]

The article posted by Jazzbeau says the Orchestra's first departure is this SAT ( today).  

Yet the MSC web site shows that Orchestra is cancelled thru June; it's first departure is July 3, still from Venice. 

 

The NCL Dawn is scheduled to depart Venice for the Greek Isles and Croatia, starting IOct 3 thru Nov.

 

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. 

 

 

[mapleleaves]

Well, MSC had it's first sailing out of Venice yesterday.  It was met with lots of protesters, but according to this article in BBC, the ban was only to be in effect when another route/port was ready.

 

I wonder if the ships that had switched to Ravenna or elsewhere  will move back to Venice.

Venice residents in environmental protest against first post-Covid cruise ship - BBC News

[sergel02]

Sometimes I wonder why the cruise lines haven’t worked together to build a port somewhere nearby but not within Venice. Maybe it wouldn’t have been environmentally or economically feasible.

 

With the effects on the environment and the pushback from citizens along with the port status remaining in limbo, it seems best just to avoid visiting the port on a large cruise for a while. 

[steamboats]

3 hours ago, sergel02 said:

Sometimes I wonder why the cruise lines haven’t worked together to build a port somewhere nearby but not within Venice. Maybe it wouldn’t have been environmentally or economically feasible.

 

With the effects on the environment and the pushback from citizens along with the port status remaining in limbo, it seems best just to avoid visiting the port on a large cruise for a while. 

 

It´s a very complicated topic... The lagoon is quite large so there is nothing "nearby" where you can build a port (in the middle of nowwhere???). Even with such a port you have to bus the pax to the airport and into Venice.... which isn´t really environmentally or economically reasonable either... 

 

Plan 1 was to use the industrial port of Marghera (they are currently building an interim terminal there) but that´s inside the lagoon and the channel going there is one way traffic only. Digging new channels to the Stazione Marittima from the Marghera entry is not approved by the environmentalists either.

 

Plan 2 is to build a new terminal outside of the lagoon sort of "offshore" with big passenger ferries (1,200 people) getting the cruise passengers to Venice and the airport. This is quite a plan as you have to get the luggage from and to the ships and provisions. And this "offshore" terminal won´t have any road connection to the main land.

 

BTW Venice wants the ships - meaning the community government.

 

steamboats