4-2-2021 CDC has issued new guidance

[Goodtime Cruizin]

Just now, Iamcruzin said:

I agree but where does it say that the CDC considers cruising essential? That was the basis of my original comment. The CDC is still issuing a travel advisory.

 

You stated that leisure travel is not essential. I corrected you. My point of contention is that the CDC is the judge and jury of what they think is to be considered 'essential leisure' travel. Which is pretty much a joke these days. The CDC uses 'scientific' data when it's to  their benefit and then discard it when it works against them.  With each passing week, the American people are slowly but surely seeing what a joke the CDC really is. It seems like the NE or mid-atlantic states and a few in the upper midwest will be the last to see and comprehend this. I'm somewhat puzzled to this too. 

[Iamcruzin]

2 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

You stated that leisure travel is not essential. I corrected you. My point of contention is that the CDC is the judge and jury of what they think is to be considered 'essential leisure' travel. Which is pretty much a joke these days. The CDC uses 'scientific' data when it's to  their benefit and then discard it when it works against them.  With each passing week, the American people are slowly but surely seeing what a joke the CDC really is. It seems like the NE or mid-atlantic states and a few in the upper midwest will be the last to see and comprehend this. I'm somewhat puzzled to this too. 

Agreed. I was comparing cargo ships which are essential for the transportation of goods and cruising which which is a leisure non essential activity. You choose to bring up a debate that is over a year old. 

[smokeybandit]

Just now, Iamcruzin said:

You choose to bring up a debate that is over a year old. 

So does the CDC

[Midwestgal]

I was about to book yesterday for January 2021 but to many uncertainties.

I don’t like that’s it’s a non refundable deposit and it would have to be used up that year. How would people get a negative test when you on a ship to fly home? How would they know (airline) that you were even on a ship? 
 

guess I’ll wait and see how thing go forward.

[Yorkvillain]

1 hour ago, Midwestgal said:

I was about to book yesterday for January 2021 but to many uncertainties.

 

Yeah, I wouldn’t book for January 2021 either. 

[jean87510]

2 hours ago, clearlake_cruiser said:

Some of the people posting are ridiculous and nasty. I'm up to 41 "ignored users" now.  WOW 😣

its fun reading them.  I look forward to listening to them in the future in the schooner bar or diamond club.  

[kearney]

On 4/3/2021 at 12:19 PM, chengkp75 said:

This has no bearing on foreign ports, as the CDC has no jurisdiction there.

 

These requirements were known, in general terms, a year ago, and these instructions still only tell the what is required (the same as the NSO and the CSO), which is what the CDC is competent to promulgate.  The how is still up to the cruise lines, just as it has been since last April, and even when it was stated about 2 months ago what the "phase 2" would require, the cruise lines have not done any pre-planning or negotiating to even the level of a "letter of intent" with the various local and state agencies, which could be quickly completed when the levels of service are defined.  And, even here, the CDC is leaving the exact level of services required (max passengers, hospital space, quarantine space) to the parties in the agreements, the cruise lines and the state and local agencies. So, this shows that the cruise lines are even more negligent in not starting discussions with these agencies, since the CDC is generally opting out of the details.

 

How quickly the cruise lines get these agreements in place will show whether they have been working towards this for a year, or merely sitting on their hands.

This reminds me of another situation. I was part of a team working on a novel flu vaccine that had been approved in Europe using a relatively small study. My European co-workers thought that they could use those results to get FDA approval.. it was clear the FDA standards required larger study and one conducted in the US...but for several years the European part of the team insisted that they could convince the FDA otherwise... the risk was that the study required would have cost about $50 million. Well the project never did get completed after about 7 years of discussions and planning. Now the reason the project died did not hang on the studies...but the studies were never even started.  What concerns me with the CDC is that their messaging has been muddled since the beginning and their credibility has suffered as a result. I don't believe they will move off their requirements. The requirements outlined last year seemed impossible to full-fill and I agree that the cruise lines' "plans" were short on specifics and long on sizzle... with impressive list of names. 

[firefly333]

50 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

its fun reading them.  I look forward to listening to them in the future in the schooner bar or diamond club.  

Lol I have a short list of 2 i dont want to meet onboard and hear their views. If someone says your posts are garbage, or they condemn everyone from texas. I probably wouldnt enjoy talking to them. States are made up of individuals, not one thought.

 

Sure some I'd like to meet, but this has also pointed out a few i find nasty. . Not many, just a few. Though i agree I'd like to chat with 99% in person.

Edited April 4, 2021 by firefly333

[soremekun]

1 hour ago, Yorkvillain said:

Yeah, I wouldn’t book for January 2021 either. 

The poster may be on to something.  It may have been an accidental revealing they know the secret about time travel.  That's a trip I'd definitely pay for.

[JABTPS]

The CDC in my opinion ( I think its still a free country for now...)  as with most government agencies, want to control and dictate how business are run, not always for the benefit of the population.  This COVID-19 event has given them the opportunity to place additional restrictions and controls on the cruise line than in the past, because of the heighten concerns people have currently.   Given that, it is then up to businesses to jump through hoops to satisfy some obstacle course of bureaucratic paperwork.  If we could just use common sense, we would all live in a happier place!

 

How many times have you gotten on a long flight, had someone coughing and hacking, and then in 3 days you're sick because of the germ passed through the cabin?   I can say more often than not. 

Planes are just as much incubators as ships.

 

Do the cruises from other ports than USA and see how things shake out.  OR we just have to suit up in an environmental suit everyday so we never get sick 😉

 

[HMR74]

19 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

It was a poorly laid out document.

 

Item 6 days there needs to be an agreement in place on what happens if there's an outbreak

 

Item 7 expands on what that agreement needs to take into account.

 

*however* I could be wrong and Item 6 may have no bearing on Item 7.

 

And if I'm wrong (which, is entirely possible since some 9th grader clearly wrote the document) then Item 7 is entirely stupid and was written in April 2020.

i agree it is poorly written and presented. If that is true, then is the underlying thought process Poor too?

[Tolkmit]

18 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

Cargo is essential. Leisure travel isn't.

 

This is false. Plenty of ship-board cargo is non-essential, the majority of it in fact. Sure, there is gas, without gas no moving food around, without food, people die. But most cargo, from cars to kids toys, has alternatives made here, or is non-essential on it's own merits. Similarly, most air travel is non-essential. Disney World is non-essential. The point being, there is no evidence the CDC is shutting down industries based on whether they are essential or leisure.

 

Additionally, just because you don't care about others, doesn't change the fact there are tens of thousands of people who are unemployed until cruising comes back. For them, it is essential. You can selfishly ignore these people all you want, but it is despicable for the CDC when they have no reason to do so that they apply in any other case.

 

The science says cruising is more safe than other leisure travel activities. Others are allowed, cruising is not. 

[HMR74]

Frankly, I think this delay game is the desire to get rid of a sector that uses a lot of energy, by factions in govt looking to find a way, and it is the cdc with covid.

 

if so, they are not  nearly being honest.

as I sated early, the cruise lines are watching the clock run out on cash flow. While the govt will just print money.  Printing money usually does not turn out well, fron the economic point of view, social or political.

 

 

[Tolkmit]

5 hours ago, JABTPS said:

The CDC in my opinion ( I think its still a free country for now...)  as with most government agencies, want to control and dictate how business are run, not always for the benefit of the population.  This COVID-19 event has given them the opportunity to place additional restrictions and controls on the cruise line than in the past, because of the heighten concerns people have currently.   Given that, it is then up to businesses to jump through hoops to satisfy some obstacle course of bureaucratic paperwork.  If we could just use common sense, we would all live in a happier place!

 

How many times have you gotten on a long flight, had someone coughing and hacking, and then in 3 days you're sick because of the germ passed through the cabin?   I can say more often than not. 

Planes are just as much incubators as ships.

 

Do the cruises from other ports than USA and see how things shake out.  OR we just have to suit up in an environmental suit everyday so we never get sick 😉

 

 

I think it's less about desire for control, and more about avoidance of responsibility. If the CDC puts impossible to complete requirements on cruising, then they can claim to be absolved of the responsibility of shutting cruising down; and at the same time be absolved of the responsibility of opening cruising up if something goes wrong. Cruising helps red states not blues ones, so they have nothing to gain by opening cruising up.

 

They've already done cruises from elsewhere. 400,000 passengers, 50 cases of Covid-19. The data is already in, it's just being ignored.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Tolkmit

[RoyalC]

54 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

Frankly, I think this delay game is the desire to get rid of a sector that uses a lot of energy, by factions in govt looking to find a way, and it is the cdc with covid.

 

if so, they are not  nearly being honest.

as I sated early, the cruise lines are watching the clock run out on cash flow. While the govt will just print money.  Printing money usually does not turn out well, fron the economic point of view, social or political.

 

The bold is it right there. The elitists hate cruise ships- they do enjoy their jets though.

 

 

[RoyalC]

53 minutes ago, Tolkmit said:

 

I think it's less about desire for control, and more about avoidance of responsibility. If the CDC puts impossible to complete requirements on cruising, then they can claim to be absolved of the responsibility of shutting cruising down; and at the same time be absolved of the responsibility of opening cruising up if something goes wrong. Cruising helps red states not blues ones, so they have nothing to gain by opening cruising up.

 

They've already done cruises from elsewhere. 400,000 passengers, 50 cases of Covid-19. The data is already in, it's just being ignored.

Actually the red states are the ones making noise (Florida mainly) but you need to realize Washington (Seattle), California, New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Maryland, etc. Blue as can be.

[livingonthebeach]

49 minutes ago, Tolkmit said:

 

I think it's less about desire for control, and more about avoidance of responsibility. If the CDC puts impossible to complete requirements on cruising, then they can claim to be absolved of the responsibility of shutting cruising down; and at the same time be absolved of the responsibility of opening cruising up if something goes wrong. Cruising helps red states not blues ones, so they have nothing to gain by opening cruising up.

 

They've already done cruises from elsewhere. 400,000 passengers, 50 cases of Covid-19. The data is already in, it's just being ignored.

 

Right, it's called CYA and Pass the Buck when the head of the CDC couldn't name the "other" agencies involved in the Conditional Sail Order.  Pencil pushers at their best -- our tax dollars at work. 

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, RoyalC said:

Actually the red states are the ones making noise (Florida mainly) but you need to realize Washington (Seattle), California, New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Maryland, etc. Blue as can be.

 

Florida is the state with the most to lose in a cruise industry shutdown.  There are more businesses and jobs that depend on the dollars cruising brings compared to any other state -- thus the reason the state is the most vocal.  Wouldn't matter if it was red or blue.  

[HMR74]

26 minutes ago, RoyalC said:

never let a crisis go to waste

 

 

[Iamcruzin]

1 hour ago, Tolkmit said:

 

This is false. Plenty of ship-board cargo is non-essential, the majority of it in fact. Sure, there is gas, without gas no moving food around, without food, people die. But most cargo, from cars to kids toys, has alternatives made here, or is non-essential on it's own merits. Similarly, most air travel is non-essential. Disney World is non-essential. The point being, there is no evidence the CDC is shutting down industries based on whether they are essential or leisure.

 

Additionally, just because you don't care about others, doesn't change the fact there are tens of thousands of people who are unemployed until cruising comes back. For them, it is essential. You can selfishly ignore these people all you want, but it is despicable for the CDC when they have no reason to do so that they apply in any other case.

 

The science says cruising is more safe than other leisure travel activities. Others are allowed, cruising is not. 

100% of cruising is non essential.  There were and are still people who are not part of the cruising industry who lost their business and employment all around the world. Don't be so short sighted.

[livingonthebeach]

5 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

100% of cruising is non essential.  There were and are still people who are not part of the cruising industry who lost their business and employment all around the world. Don't be so short sighted.

 

Non essential for the traveller, but for the port, port workers, peripheral businesses dependent on the industry, it is very much essential.  For a city that draws in a high percentage of its revenue from the cruise industry to meet its budget, it is very much essential.  Short sighted is in the eye of the beholder. 

[smokeybandit]

11 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

100% of cruising is non essential.

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people w/o jobs because of the cruise ban

[Iamcruzin]

1 minute ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Non essential for the traveller, but for the port, port workers, peripheral businesses dependent on the industry, it is very much essential.  For a city that draws in a high percentage of its revenue from the cruise industry to meet its budget, it is very much essential.  Short sighted is in the eye of the beholder. 

Restaurants, Nail Salons, Barber shops are non essential to those who use their service yet they also employ people and pay rent for space.

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, Iamcruzin said:

Restaurants, Nail Salons, Barber shops are non essential to those who use their service yet they also employ people and pay rent for space.

 

My point exactly. 

[ONECRUISER]

18 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

100% of cruising is non essential.  There were and are still people who are not part of the cruising industry who lost their business and employment all around the world. Don't be so short sighted.

Ironic thing is Liquor Stores are Essential during 15day lock down and even few Strip Clubs won their Court Case. They can serve food, liquor and entertain long as they kept Masks on

Edited April 5, 2021 by ONECRUISER