Senators Introduce New CRUISE Act to Overrule CDC Order

[4774Papa]

17 minutes ago, morechances said:

Yes, Disney, flying, and any other close contact is a risk.

However, one has more opportunities to encounter a positive person on a 7 day cruise. 

Russian roulette.

On a cruise where everyone has been vaccinated or has antibodies from having the virus?

[El Crucero]

8 hours ago, sonnycruises said:

No problem with untested unprotected immigrants being spread all over the US? First no mask then one mask now two. Latest info on their site is the virus is not spread from surfaces. Really?

No problem with hundreds of thousands of Americans unwilling to be tested or vaccinated?  Where is your xenophobic proof that migrants are spreading all over the US?

 

Yes, two masks are recommended under certain circumstances but are not mandated.  Recommendations continue to evolve as scientists learn more about this virus.

 

Can you provide scientific research that the virus is spread on surfaces?  IF you are correct, you are making a good argument why public transportation like airlines and cruise ships should be suspended!

[4774Papa]

Just now, El Crucero said:

No problem with hundreds of thousands of Americans unwilling to be tested or vaccinated?  Where is your xenophobic proof that migrants are spreading all over the US?

 

Yes, two masks are recommended under certain circumstances but are not mandated.  Recommendations continue to evolve as scientists learn more about this virus.

 

Can you provide scientific research that the virus is spread on surfaces?  IF you are correct, you are making a good argument why public transportation like airlines and cruise ships should be suspended!

El Crucero,

There has to be a balance between the risk of infection to a virus that spread easily, but with a low mortality rate and our country still operating.   Shutting down the airlines is not an option.   NYC didn't shut down the subway, since people had to get to work somehow (especially those health care, police, fire, etc.).  

[morechances]

4 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

On a cruise where everyone has been vaccinated or has antibodies from having the virus?

Yes, on cruises to OTHER countries.

Countries that may or may not have citizens who are vaccinated.

Countries that may or may not have an outbreak that could become an international event. That may make the US decide to block the ship from retuning.

For example, there are many strains that the current vaccines are not blocking at as high a rate.

 

Of course this is all speculation.

 

However, it is definitely a possibility.

[El Crucero]

2 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

I am not being political, I am just analyzing the facts.   Sometimes I wonder just how political CDC's decision may be?   

 

😂 "I am not being political, just analyzing the facts."  And here is my political, nonfactual opinion.

[El Crucero]

3 hours ago, hcat said:

Curious about the authors of the letter and their interest in cruising.

Who knows if they have an interest in cruising, but they do have an interest in protecting the health, safety, and welfare of the people they represent.

[El Crucero]

13 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

There has to be a balance between the risk of infection to a virus that spread easily, but with a low mortality rate and our country still operating.   Shutting down the airlines is not an option.   NYC didn't shut down the subway, since people had to get to work somehow (especially those health care, police, fire, etc.).  

Yes, and as a result we have almost 600K dead at this time.  I have friends who died from it, didn't even get to go to their funeral because there wasn't one.  Was it worth it?  I guess so if you haven't personally been effected.

[cruisemom42]

9 hours ago, sonnycruises said:

What are the CDC guidelines? No problem with untested unprotected immigrants being spread all over the US? First no mask then one mask now two. Latest info on their site is the virus is not spread from surfaces. Really?

 

Interesting how many times you've been provided with correct information in response to your meaningless rhetoric and yet never seem to take it onboard. 

 

 

[4774Papa]

1 hour ago, El Crucero said:

Yes, and as a result we have almost 600K dead at this time.  I have friends who died from it, didn't even get to go to their funeral because there wasn't one.  Was it worth it?  I guess so if you haven't personally been effected.

Any death is to be mourned and COVID19 deaths are significant.  I haven't ignored the threat.  However, I still had to make trips to the pharmacy, grocery store and medical appointment.  Once I had both doses of the vaccine, I am more confident in getting out.

 

As for knowing people that have died, I had two friends while in my 20's that died from riding motorcycles.  I refuse to ride on a motorcycle because of that and my belief that riding motorcycles are significantly more risky than riding in a car.    Also, death and injury from being on America's highways is a risk with about  40K fatalities are year.  I don't go out and stand on a hill during a lightening storm either.   I also know someone that almost died when struck by lightening.

 

All of us much study what is provided on the subject and weight the risks.  In 1985 I had planned a trip to Egypt, but a few weeks before there was a terrible terrorist attack in Egypt on tourists.    Most people on our tour cancelled their reservations.  We went ahead and were on a Nile River cruise boat capacity for 100 passengers.  Only 20 showed up, but we had a great cruise and tour.

 

 

[4774Papa]

44 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Interesting how many times you've been provided with correct information in response to your meaningless rhetoric and yet never seem to take it onboard. 

 

 

Perhaps true, but why isn't our government concerned about the thousands (approximately 10%) of illegals coming across our borders  in the past few months?

[cruisemom42]

22 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

Perhaps true, but why isn't our government concerned about the thousands (approximately 10%) of illegals coming across our borders  in the past few months?

 

From previous discussions I know you are intelligent enough to not fall into these "if it's not black it must be white" fallacies.  Of course the government is concerned. And they are working to stem the tide. 

[TrulyBlonde]

29 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

From previous discussions I know you are intelligent enough to not fall into these "if it's not black it must be white" fallacies.  Of course the government is concerned. And they are working to stem the tide. 

Huh??

[grandgeezer]

1 hour ago, TrulyBlonde said:

Huh??

They are working hard, but some of the US citizens can't be told what to do. The CDC (the professionals whose only job is public health) has been saying from day one, wear your mask, social distance, and now get the vaccine. These are the people who have the say if/when cruising begins. Yet, for the most part, these boards are full of people who can't be told what's good for them and scour the web for experts that agree with them. You have been sitting home for the last thirteen months, and at least 2 1/2 months to go. Why not go along with their recommendations and try to prove them wrong?

I give them all the credit in the world, they've been belittled, bullied, and threatened with lawsuits yet they are standing behind what they feel is right.

Some of the credit for the shutdown should be shared with the ivory towers in Miami. Until recently, all you heard from them is boo hoo, boo hoo, those mean people in the CDC are dragging their feet in identifying what we have to do to cruise. A competent CEO and senior management board wouldn't just sit back and watch the company lose $300 million a month. By calls, and using the news meadia, they would have put the spotlight on the CDC and kept it there until there were answers. When it comes to leadership, one of our presidents said "The buck stops here". You give them all the credit when business is strong, but not the blame when things aren't.

[4774Papa]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

From previous discussions I know you are intelligent enough to not fall into these "if it's not black it must be white" fallacies.  Of course the government is concerned. And they are working to stem the tide. 

Yes, cruisemom, likewise I always enjoy your posts.

Of course the government is concerned about protecting people and working to stem the spread of this virus.  However, it is not immune from political errors, such as ignoring the spread of COVID19 among illegal immigrants.   

[nocl]

7 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

El Crucero,

There has to be a balance between the risk of infection to a virus that spread easily, but with a low mortality rate and our country still operating.   Shutting down the airlines is not an option.   NYC didn't shut down the subway, since people had to get to work somehow (especially those health care, police, fire, etc.).  

However, use of the New York subway dropped by 90% during the first months after the outbreak started there.  Even today subway use is down by 66% compared to pre-pandemic levels and bus traffic down by 50%.  So even though NYC did not shut the subway down people certainly greatly reduced use, even though it is needed.

[4774Papa]

5 minutes ago, nocl said:

However, use of the New York subway dropped by 90% during the first months after the outbreak started there.  Even today subway use is down by 66% compared to pre-pandemic levels and bus traffic down by 50%.  So even though NYC did not shut the subway down people certainly greatly reduced use, even though it is needed.

True, but the city reduced the number of trains running, so the crowds  were still relatively heavy.

http://web.mit.edu/jeffrey/harris/HarrisJE_WP2_COVID19_NYC_13-Apr-2020.pdf

 

[terrydtx]

On 4/16/2021 at 9:20 AM, El Crucero said:

Just because you have been vaccinated, you can still be a carrier of the virus and infect others

What scientific proof do you have to make this statement? 

[cruisemom42]

10 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

What scientific proof do you have to make this statement? 

 

Here is the latest summary on the subject from CDC; the picture is better than it was initially thought but there is still a risk of transmission:

 

Preliminary data from Israel suggest that people vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine who develop COVID-19 have a four-fold lower viral load than unvaccinated people. This observation may indicate reduced transmissibility, as viral load has been identified as a key driver of transmission.

 

Vaccinated travelers may thus be less likely to be infected (VES: susceptibility) and to transmit to others if infected (VEI: infection). Early estimates of VES for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine are on the order of 60–92%. Therefore, a range of combined VES and VEI estimates from 60–90% for vaccinated travelers was assessed. For example, with a combined VE of 60%, a traveler, who if unvaccinated would be infected and infectious 100% of the time, was assumed to be infected and infectious 40% of the time and a combined VE of 90%, the traveler was assumed to be infected and infectious 10% of the time.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

 

So depending on how effective overall a given vaccine is in a given person, the transmission risk will vary but it is likely still there.  If we assume the high-end of efficacy for someone who received the Pfizer vaccine -- e.g., approximately 90% -- then there is still a 10% risk of infection, which is equivalent to a 10% risk of transmission. But not every single person who receives the vaccine will have such a high individual rate; it depends on the individual immune response to the vaccine, which could be much lower.

 

[morechances]

22 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

Perhaps true, but why isn't our government concerned about the thousands (approximately 10%) of illegals coming across our borders  in the past few months?

What does this have to do with the topic of overriding the CDC no sail order?

It is so special when people try to make a point by repeating some non related thing they have heard or read.

[hcat]

Would anyone have a link or way to track the bill?

 

[El Crucero]

5 hours ago, terrydtx said:

What scientific proof do you have to make this statement? 

CDC.

[Fouremco]

6 hours ago, terrydtx said:

What scientific proof do you have to make this statement? 

What scientific proof do you have to negate this statement?

[kirtihk]

On 4/15/2021 at 6:26 PM, morechances said:

Just because airports are busy, does not mean that it is safe

Living is not safe.  However, it doesn't mean it should be locked.

[El Crucero]

3 hours ago, kirtihk said:

Living is not safe.  However, it doesn't mean it should be locked.

I guess you don't wear seatbelts in a car or airplane then.

[kirtihk]

14 hours ago, El Crucero said:

I guess you don't wear seatbelts in a car or airplane then.

Yours comment is absolutely not related to my statement.  I wrote "Living is not safe".  Otherwise, humans would live forever.  Any arguments?  We just all have a different "time-frame" from "above.  For example, my neighbor fell on ice on his porch, hit his head, and got permanently paralyzed.  A few years later I also fell on ice n my porch and hit my head very hard; however, nothing happened to me  Then 2 years ago I fell in Lisbon (the port of call during my cruise on Celebrity Edge); they have "famous" stone pavements in the city that are extremely slippery during rain.  I hit my head again and by back very hard over the stone curb.  I had 5 broken ribs healed in 8 weeks (just in time before my next cruise on Azamara).  Somehow, I'm still alive.  The point is we are all under "heaven's" surveillance.