CDC issues test cruise instructions

[joepeka]

2 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Thanks  - I understand their remit, but they do seem to be enjoying their new found powers a little too much! They also seem to want cruise lines to apply restrictions that have no logic whatsoever,  such as distancing between loungers on deck. Just sheer nincompoopery.  

You're welcome. I'm sure many share your sentiment regarding their authority and attitude toward the cruise industry. 🙂

[chengkp75]

54 minutes ago, wowzz said:

As a Brit, this whole CDC conversation just amazes me. Many things about the US seem strange to ne- you can drive, but can't buy a drink, own a machine gun etc,  - but overall normally the tendency is towards liberty, not the bureaucracy we like in the UK. 

Yet, here in the UK we have numerous cruises starting up this summer, with no restrictions, other than would be applied to land resorts. 

Why and how has the CDC  been able to  acquire these draconian powers, that bear no relation to the measures required for CV19 security in a cruise environment? 

 

14 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Thanks  - I understand their remit, but they do seem to be enjoying their new found powers a little too much! They also seem to want cruise lines to apply restrictions that have no logic whatsoever,  such as distancing between loungers on deck. Just sheer nincompoopery.  

In the US, there is one agency that controls the granting of "free pratique", or the unquarantined health clearance for a vessel to enter US waters.  That agency is the CDC.  From what I can see, in the UK, each port has its own Port Health Authority, which regulates health and sanitation for that individual port.

 

I don't think you do understand the CDC's mandate, as many here on CC from the US don't either.  I will disagree with joepeka, that the CDC's mandate is "to prevent and control disease transmission on ships".  Nope.  The CDC's mandate is to "prevent and control disease transmission into the US.  It is all about "free pratique", or the ability to enter US waters without either quarantine or a health/sanitation inspection.  These "powers" are not "new found", the principal of "free pratique" goes back hundreds of years, to the Middle Ages.

 

While the UK may not require restrictions on cruises, and while you may think that the requirements of the CDC are "nincompoopery", I am not an epidemiologist, so I will let those who are, decide what is best to control this disease.  Is the banning of slotted or Phillips head screws from food service equipment (as required by the CDC's VSP) "stupid" or is it something that is shown to prevent food buildup in the screw head and a source for bacterial/viral growth?

 

As many have questioned, how does the CDC claim to have control over the ships when outside of US waters?  In reality, they don't.  However, they make requirements for entry that must be met before entry, such as wearing masks (and this applies to all ships, not just cruise ships), and the shipping company (or cruise line) has the choice:  do I follow this, and can then enter the US, or do I not follow it, and bypass US ports.  It is all about entry into US waters, and passengers disembarking into the US.

[joepeka]

30 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 

I will disagree with joepeka, that the CDC's mandate is "to prevent and control disease transmission on ships".  Nope.  The CDC's mandate is to "prevent and control disease transmission into the US. 

Chief, I was just paraphrasing from the CDC VSP web page and it does not mention transmission into the U.S.... just "on cruise ships." Perhaps I take that information a bit too literally without considering NIH/CDC's mission beyond the VSP but it's all I got since I'm not in the business (shipping commerce or the CDC).

Edited May 7, 2021 by joepeka

[chengkp75]

23 minutes ago, joepeka said:

Chief, I was just paraphrasing from the CDC VSP web page and it does not mention transmission into the U.S.... just "on cruise ships." Perhaps I take that information a bit too literally without considering NIH/CDC's mission beyond the VSP but it's all I got since I'm not in the business (shipping commerce or the CDC).

No worries.

[caribill]

12 hours ago, wowzz said:

Which ones ? Certainly not the case for the Seacations operating out of the UK this summer.  

 

Celebrity said in a webinar that many of their crew are working in their home countries to get vaccinated, some doing this thorugh the crew recruiting companies.

 

Royal Caribbean said they are getting a great response about the crew willing to be vaccinated.

"We surveyed our crew some months ago, and we stay in touch with the crew through surveys and various forms of communication. And in the survey that we sent out, I'm going to say it was at the end of last year or the beginning of this year, we asked our crew members, first of all, "Have you been vaccinated? Are you getting vaccinated? And will you get vaccinated?" And we had over 98% positive response from our crew saying, "Yes, we're going to get vaccinated.""

 

[caribill]

12 hours ago, voljeep said:

How hard would it be for Princess to set up a one ship test cruise ?

 

Would Port Everglades be open to this between now ( now being however long it takes to set that up ) and "mid-July" ? 

 

A test cruise would be under very strict guidelines, protocols , and procedures and 'could be' a very good measuring stick to see where Princess stands, what's good, and what needs to be improved before paying customers come on board

 

I guess I'm not smart enough to see why this isn't a win-win for Princess at this time

 

If the ship 'passes' the test cruise - then that ship doesn't have to adhere to the 98% - 95% 'rules, right ?

 

a) That would add at least 60 days until a restart for that ship.

 

b) And they would have to do this for each ship they do not want to adhere to the 98% - 95% rules.

[Earthworm Jim]

19 hours ago, smellycruzer said:

Correct. We'll see then if they can meet those levels.

 

We don't even know that they want to try to reach those vaccinated thresholds. For all we know they'll go the test cruise route.

[dwgreenlee]

7 hours ago, oskidunker said:

If you cant ask for proof of vaccination in Florida, how can they sail from there and meet the cdc requirements?

Only my non-expert thoughts but two possible workarounds:

 

(1) Have the flag state - Bermuda for most Princess Ships - do a medical clearance (including vaccination status) for each passenger prior to allowing the release of boarding document.  International communication between passengers - except perhaps in Florida - and Bermuda Authorities would/should not be governed by Florida law.

(2) Have CDC reps control the medical clearance (including vaccination status) for boarding in Florida.  The federal CDC personnel would/should not be subject to Florida law.

 

Either option would add a legal complexity to the boarding process that the cruise lines would like to avoid. Thus, the more likely course of action would be delay starting from Florida.

[caribill]

4 hours ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

We don't even know that they want to try to reach those vaccinated thresholds. For all we know they'll go the test cruise route.

 

If they do, that will add at least 2 months for each ship to return to "regular" cruising.

[wowzz]

6 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Celebrity said in a webinar that many of their crew are working in their home countries to get vaccinated, some doing this thorugh the crew recruiting companies.

 

Royal Caribbean said they are getting a great response about the crew willing to be vaccinated.

"We surveyed our crew some months ago, and we stay in touch with the crew through surveys and various forms of communication. And in the survey that we sent out, I'm going to say it was at the end of last year or the beginning of this year, we asked our crew members, first of all, "Have you been vaccinated? Are you getting vaccinated? And will you get vaccinated?" And we had over 98% positive response from our crew saying, "Yes, we're going to get vaccinated.""

 

 

Which is all well and good, but the simple fact is that cruises from the UK will not have vaccinated crew onboard.

[caribill]

1 minute ago, wowzz said:

Which is all well and good, but the simple fact is that cruises from the UK will not have vaccinated crew onboard.

 

True. And like other cruise ships already cruising in Europe and Asia, they will essentially be Covid free.

 

The cruises in operation in Europe and Asia have had a very, very small number of cases.

 

As RCL stated "we have successfully carried over 125,000 passengers with only 21 COVID-19 cases. 21? That's a positivity rate of 0.01% and as we've emphasized all of this has been experience without having the availability of vaccines. Our goal throughout this pandemic has been to make a cruise ship, where we can control the environment, safely to main street USA. We've already demonstrated our ability to do that "

[voljeep]

4 hours ago, caribill said:

 

If they do, that will add at least 2 months for each ship to return to "regular" cruising.

link ? - you've posted this a couple of times now ..

[caribill]

5 hours ago, voljeep said:

link ? - you've posted this a couple of times now ..

 

Michael Bayley - President and CEO, Royal Caribbean International

 

"I think again as we understood and interpret what we received last night if you're planning on a highly vaccinated cruise there will be no requirement for a simulated voyage and the previous 30-day notification and process for simulation. And then the subsequent 60-day for notification in the process for your first actual revenue sailing is effectively been removed."

[voljeep]

10 hours ago, caribill said:

 

If they do, that will add at least 2 months for each ship to return to "regular" cruising.

 

3 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

Michael Bayley - President and CEO, Royal Caribbean International

 

"I think again as we understood and interpret what we received last night if you're planning on a highly vaccinated cruise there will be no requirement for a simulated voyage and the previous 30-day notification and process for simulation. And then the subsequent 60-day for notification in the process for your first actual revenue sailing is effectively been removed."

seems to contradict each other - guess I'm just slow

[jovisoul]

The CDC is ridiculous. They really are trying to sink the cruise industry. I have a cruise booked for February 2022, after having 3 canceled due to the pandemic. All of this crap better be lifted by then.

[Redwing55]

3 hours ago, jovisoul said:

The CDC is ridiculous. They really are trying to sink the cruise industry. I have a cruise booked for February 2022, after having 3 canceled due to the pandemic. All of this crap better be lifted by then.

I sure hope so.  My wife shared this story with me today. https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/6095/

 

The CDC are.. well, I don't like to name call.  But I do wonder if they'll be taken to court.  These restrictions are arbitrary. Generally this type of regulation won't stand up in court.  I MIGHT, and even then I don't agree, understand that SOME of the restrictions might make sense if few were vaccinated.  However, the CDC is offering no incentive to be vaccinated on the ship.  Maybe I missed that?  I hope so, but I tried to find it and couldn't.

 

What is the CDC's issue?  Their reputation is going further south by the minute.  And not just about cruising.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Redwing55

[jovisoul]

18 minutes ago, Redwing55 said:

I sure hope so.  My wife shared this story with me today. https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/6095/

 

The CDC are.. well, I don't like to name call.  But I do wonder if they'll be taken to court.  These restrictions are arbitrary and generally this type of regulation won't stand up in court.  I MIGHT, and even then I don't agree, that SOME of the restrictions might make sense if few were vaccinated.  However, the CDC is offering no incentive to be vaccinated on the ship.  Maybe I missed that?  I hope so, but I tried to find it and couldn't.

 

What is the CDC's issue?  There reputation is going further south by the minute.  And not just about cruising.

Florida, Alaska and Texas already have a lawsuit and the first hearing is May 12th.

[rabin1]

I have a question. I emailed my Princess Cruise Planner to ask her this question

Where and who and how will they choose people for the trial sailings if they do them?

She told me because I live in South Florida ( very close to Port Everglades & Miami about 40 minutes) and been fully vaccinated she already put me on their list.

 

What do you guys THINK the answer to my question to her would be your opinion please?

 

Thanks

Kathy

[Redwing55]

Well, NCL is done playing games.  He didn't mince many words about the CDC here.

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/6097/

[joepeka]

On 5/6/2021 at 5:14 PM, chengkp75 said:

No worries.

Thanks Chief. Kind of like Will Rogers, I only know what I read in the papers (web) and that's an alibi for my ignorance. 🙂

[K.T.B.]

3 hours ago, Redwing55 said:

Well, NCL is done playing games.  He didn't mince many words about the CDC here.

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/6097/

 

Nails it perfectly.  Things were looking very promising for awhile, then the CDC pulls the rug out from under them.

[2ferfun]

On 5/6/2021 at 6:03 PM, wowzz said:

Thanks  - I understand their remit, but they do seem to be enjoying their new found powers a little too much! They also seem to want cruise lines to apply restrictions that have no logic whatsoever,  such as distancing between loungers on deck. Just sheer nincompoopery.  

🤣🤣

Nincompoopery is a great way to describe A LOT of what the CDC and many other agencies/governments are doing! To be fair, I am sure their main concern is keeping everyone as safe as possible and keeping COVID out of the country and we all know they mean well.  But you are 100% correct when you say much of it defies logic.  Sheer nincompoopery!

[Redwing55]

16 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Nails it perfectly.  Things were looking very promising for awhile, then the CDC pulls the rug out from under them.

I then saw him on the news today (Saturday)  He is one upset CEO.  And the US wants cruiselines flagged in the US?  And they treat them like this?  And then MONTHS after this virus, the CDC admits how covid is spread.. How many months?  And this is an objective SCIENTIFIC organization?  Get rid of them.  They're protecting who?  Not us.

[chengkp75]

4 minutes ago, Redwing55 said:

And the US wants cruiselines flagged in the US? 

Where did you get this?  The US could care less whether the cruise lines are US flag or not, since everyone in the US maritime business knows it is not fiscally possible.

[Redwing55]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Where did you get this?  The US could care less whether the cruise lines are US flag or not, since everyone in the US maritime business knows it is not fiscally possible.

That was a bit tongue in cheek. I mean since there is that act (not jones but that other one) that requires non-US ships to make out of US stops before returning, one can imply that the US wants the ship flagged in the US, no?  Why else have the order?