Mask Mandate for cruises CDC?

[nocl]

14 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Considering the order just came down on May 6th, you're certainly asking a lot of the cruise lines.

 

And in case anyone is curious as to what those documents are, here you go:

 

In lieu of conducting a simulated voyage, cruise ship operator responsible officials, at their discretion, may sign and submit to CDC an attestation under 18 U.S.C. § 1001 that 98 percent of crew are fully vaccinated and submit to CDC a clear and specific vaccination plan and timeline to limit cruise ship sailings to 95 percent of passengers who have been verified by the cruise ship operator as fully vaccinated prior to sailing.

 

 

The cruise lines may not have time to flesh out their vaccination plan, but they certainly should know internally if they are going to go that route or not.

 

After all if they are not prepared to move quickly it is rather unlikely that they will be able to complete the items needed for sailing out of the US anytime this summer and maybe not even this fall.

Edited May 10, 2021 by nocl

[nocl]

1 hour ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

Do you mind sharing how you know what all the cruise lines are or are not doing behind the scenes to work with the CDC towards cruising? Are you aware of any ship retrofits to accommodate air filtration changes. Have there been any ship reconfiguration to accommodate increased Sick bay or quarantine areas? 

one more comment.

 

The only info on a cruise line actually progressing is NCl. There was a report yesterday on www.seatrade-cruise.com that quotes Harry Sommer as saying that they are working on port agreements and hope to submit something soon. They are also the only line that has committed to requiring vaccination. Though no mention of their actually having submitted the required documents.  And that they are in discussions with the CDC what their plans will need to look like with the vaccination requirement.

 

So they appear to be serious about actually starting in the US pending the Florida issue.

 

RCL and CCL owned companies not a word.

[NMTraveller]

On 5/7/2021 at 5:24 PM, kearney said:

Think of the lovely tan you will get while wearing a mask by the pool.

 

[NMTraveller]

2 hours ago, nocl said:

in lay down seats you are not 11 inches apart. in the other seats you are still sitting forward and in one spot with an occasional visit to the rest room. so the conditions on an air plane with seating, air flow still remain for an 11 hour flight as well as a 2 hour flight. air flowing still top down, filtration still fully replaced cabin air every 5 minutes. masks still required. for international flights testing still required.

 

with covid the crews no longer let passengers stand up an stand for periods of time in the galley areas like they used to.

 

bottom line air craft have demonstrated low transmission rates with relatively few multiple spread events, even before vaccination.

 

This experience is backed up by dozens of studies and tests that demonstrate the reasons why.

Hmmmm.  Here is some reading for you.

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/09/studies-trace-covid-19-spread-international-flights

Also note that the study did not (was not able to) trace the many contacts in the airport who were exposed.

 

Yet again perhaps 50% of the people on flights are vaccinated.  Cruises 100% or perhaps 95%.

 

Put me down as someone that would rather cruise on a 100% vaccinated ship vs fly on a 50% vaccinated plane.

Edited May 10, 2021 by NMTraveller

[nocl]

33 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

Hmmmm.  Here is some reading for you.

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/09/studies-trace-covid-19-spread-international-flights

Also note that the study did not (was not able to) trace the many contacts in the airport who were exposed.

 

Yet again perhaps 50% of the people on flights are vaccinated.  Cruises 100% or perhaps 95%.

 

Put me down as someone that would rather cruise on a 100% vaccinated ship vs fly on a 50% vaccinated plane.

good all you need is for the cruise lines to actually submit the attestation documents that they will actually require vaccination.

 

so far none have submitted such and only NCL has indicated that they will require vaccination.

 

Until those actually get submitted the idea of sailing out of the US on a fully vaccinated ship is only that an idea.

 

The flight to Vietnam one of the few example of multiple spread on a plane. It occured before the mask requirement. 

 

Another not mentioned is a Ryan air flight returning to the UK from Greece.

Edited May 10, 2021 by nocl

[ChucktownSteve]

7 hours ago, nocl said:

one more comment.

 

The only info on a cruise line actually progressing is NCl. There was a report yesterday on www.seatrade-cruise.com that quotes Harry Sommer as saying that they are working on port agreements and hope to submit something soon. They are also the only line that has committed to requiring vaccination. Though no mention of their actually having submitted the required documents.  And that they are in discussions with the CDC what their plans will need to look like with the vaccination requirement.

 

So they appear to be serious about actually starting in the US pending the Florida issue.

 

RCL and CCL owned companies not a word.

 

My belief is that just because a cruise line doesn't publicly disclose what they're working on, it doesn't mean they're not doing anything.  While not a Celebrity cheerleader, as you can tell by my posts, I suspect they're just doing what they normally do, get everything in order before releasing info. Premature release usually results in tons of miss speculation and rumors by some which takes much more effort to correct.  

 

Fortunately for me, I'm booked on three NCL Regent cruises to one Celebrity cruise. So I like Del Rio's disclosures. 

[ipeeinthepool]

6 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

Fortunately for me, I'm booked on three NCL Regent cruises to one Celebrity cruise. 

 

I'm not sure this is a measure of your good fortune.  🤔

Edited May 10, 2021 by ipeeinthepool

[kearney]

8 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

My belief is that just because a cruise line doesn't publicly disclose what they're working on, it doesn't mean they're not doing anything.  While not a Celebrity cheerleader, as you can tell by my posts, I suspect they're just doing what they normally do, get everything in order before releasing info. Premature release usually results in tons of miss speculation and rumors by some which takes much more effort to correct.  

 

Fortunately for me, I'm booked on three NCL Regent cruises to one Celebrity cruise. So I like Del Rio's disclosures. 

We know that they have type of agreements for their cruises out of St Maarten... but they may not be in the format that the CDC is looking for. And there are additional ports not covered in the St Maarten schedule that have to be developed. I agree, RCCL probably won't announce anything until they are done. We didn't know about cruises out of alternate ports until they were set up. 

[ChucktownSteve]

Just now, ipeeinthepool said:

 

I'm not sure this is a measure of your good fortune.  🤔

 

Well as nocl indicated, NCL is apparently the only cruise line publicly disclosing what they're working on to get back to U.S. cruising.  My Regent cruises all include U.S. ports. Ergo if they get the green light from the CDC, that's good fortune for me and all the others booked that our cruises will proceed as scheduled.

[ipeeinthepool]

2 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

Well as nocl indicated, NCL is apparently the only cruise line publicly disclosing what they're working on to get back to U.S. cruising.  

 

It's unlikely that this will help.

[ChucktownSteve]

Just now, ipeeinthepool said:

 

It's unlikely that this will help.

 

So they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.  Let's circle back on that when we hear more from all the parties involved and covid is totally eradicated.

[ipeeinthepool]

11 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

So they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. 

 

Until the CDC establishes rules for vaccinated people, you're correct.

[kearney]

I suspect each company has taken a different approach. Carnival has said very little (we know they oppose vaccination requirement), RCCL has published plans once they are in place (crew and adults vaccinated some children allowed), and NCL is telling us what they are working on (plan on 100% vaccinated..so no children).  In NCL's case I see mixed messaging (much like we see out of the CDC)...on the one hand the CEO goes on business networks and talks about CDC being unreasonable (frankly I agree) and the next day telling local media it is all DeSantis fault and they may pull out of Florida... well until the CDC approves...they are going nowhere, as far as US ports are concerned... vaccine passports or not.

 

I first heard of Celebrity Caribbean ports about a week before it was officially announced. And we have actually booked a RCL cruise out of Nassau. Even there logistics are still being worked out.. they will apparently use the Hilton for check in.... Now we need to rent a scooter and the two companies that do that are still trying to figure out logistics. I think it best for cruiselines to get their ducks in a row before going to the press and telling them all the plans... because those plans can change... I'd rather have them nail it down than see a constant flow of changes... as we have seen with other organizations.

 

I know that Celebrity has worked with St Maarten and Royal with Bermuda and Nassau... hence the rules on being tested before and after...even though passengers >16 must be vaccinated (or is it 18). As I recall they are working with the various ports of call...but I am having trouble locating that documentation. Part of the challenge is that the logistics of setting up a cruise are monumental and with CDC lack of clarity and vaccination proof issues... it just makes their job more difficult. I still wonder if these smaller ports are prepared to handle the massive provisioning needs of a cruise ship..even one sailing at half capacity... At lease Nassau is close to Miami..

 

Anyway DH and I will see how well that is working in August on Adventure. I set up this cruise as something of a test... we have final payment for a Celebrity cruise.. due just after we get back. If it isn't fun... I may just cancel the Nov cruise and wait to see when things return to some normalcy.

Edited May 10, 2021 by kearney

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, kearney said:

I suspect each company has taken a different approach. Carnival has said very little (we know they oppose vaccination requirement), RCCL has published plans once they are in place (crew and adults vaccinated some children allowed), and NCL is telling us what they are working on (plan on 100% vaccinated..so no children).  In NCL's case I see mixed messaging (much like we see out of the CDC)...on the one hand the CEO goes on business networks and talks about CDC being unreasonable (frankly I agree) and the next day telling local media it is all DeSantis fault and they may pull out of Florida... well until the CDC approves...they are going nowhere, as far as US ports are concerned... vaccine passports or not.

 

I first heard of Celebrity Caribbean ports about a week before it was officially announced. And we have actually booked a RCL cruise out of Nassau. Even there logistics are still being worked out.. they will apparently use the Hilton for check in.... Now we need to rent a scooter and the two companies that do that are still trying to figure out logistics. I think it best for cruiselines to get their ducks in a row before going to the press and telling them all the plans... because those plans can change... I'd rather have them nail it down than see a constant flow of changes... as we have seen with other organizations.

 

I know that Celebrity has worked with St Maarten and Royal with Bermuda and Nassau... hence the rules on being tested before and after...even though passengers >16 must be vaccinated (or is it 18). As I recall they are working with the various ports of call...but I am having trouble locating that documentation. Part of the challenge is that the logistics of setting up a cruise are monumental and with CDC lack of clarity and vaccination proof issues... it just makes their job more difficult. I still wonder if these smaller ports are prepared to handle the massive provisioning needs of a cruise ship..even one sailing at half capacity... At lease Nassau is close to Miami..

 

Anyway DH and I will see how well that is working in August on Adventure. I set up this cruise as something of a test... we have final payment for a Celebrity cruise.. due just after we get back. If it isn't fun... I may just cancel the Nov cruise and wait to see when things return to some normalcy.

The CDC has no input or impact on RCG's preparations for cruises starting outside the US.  If those are not properly organized at this point, that is on them.  The cruise lines now have everything they need from the CDC.  They may not like it, but they have it.  It's time to step up and do it.  And it's time to disclose what their vaccination plans are and what ships they plan to sail out of the US and when.  They could do at least that much.

[nocl]

3 hours ago, kearney said:

We know that they have type of agreements for their cruises out of St Maarten... but they may not be in the format that the CDC is looking for. And there are additional ports not covered in the St Maarten schedule that have to be developed. I agree, RCCL probably won't announce anything until they are done. We didn't know about cruises out of alternate ports until they were set up. 

of course they have to have some kinds of agreements to sail anywhere.

 

But they have nothing to do with sailing out of the US.

 

Apparently the cruise industry press has not gotten any indications either about any work on port agreements by CCL or RCL lines to meet the requirements of the CSO.

 

I would also point out that the port agreements would vary quite a bit depending upon if the cruise line will require vaccination or not. After all the scope of the agreement with local health authorities concerning potential quarantine quarters would be different for fully vaccinated and not. As of yet RCL and CCL lines have not even made a statement concerning vaccination requirements for US cruises. Other than being undecided.

 

I expect that NCL will be sailing from the US months before the CCL and RCL lines.

Edited May 10, 2021 by nocl

[kirtihk]

On 5/7/2021 at 6:14 PM, ECCruise said:

I think this is to prevent what we have seen recently:  Blatant disregard for mask use in certain environments.

Like buying a 12 oz beer, removing your mask for 2 hours while you take a sip every 15-20 minutes.  Or, what we saw just 2 nights ago, buying a 3 oz. bag of peanuts and eating one peanut every 10 minutes or so, slowly chewing on it and taking hours to eat the 3 oz.  And smirking the entire time to the employees who asked him to follow the procedures. 

I heard a news: to accommodate scant or a lack of virus-shmirus related events there will be hosted a New Olympic non-traditional triathlon Event held on luxury cruise lines of your choice called "the fastest chewing competition" (replacing cycling) combined with traditional swimming and running.  Due to excessive sweating associated with this event, rags will be allowed to be removed in order to replace with a fresh one (the athlete will have to follow a rule to do so only in her cabin).

[nocl]

3 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Until the CDC establishes rules for vaccinated people, you're correct.

Those will be on a plan by plan basis with the cruise lines.

 

The first indication of how far the CDC will relax the rules on a fully vaccinated ship will be when the first plan is approved.

 

While there is always a possibility that CDC would release such a guidance document, it would be unusual for a regulatory authority to release such. After a vaccination requirement is a decision of the cruise line not a CDC requirement.

 

Most likely the first indication you will see is when the first cruise line submits their plan and gets it approved. Most likely NCL.

 

The advantage of being the first one in is that the others will most likely have to follow a lot of what you agreed to.

Edited May 10, 2021 by nocl

[nocl]

11 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Hmmmm.  Here is some reading for you.

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/09/studies-trace-covid-19-spread-international-flights

Also note that the study did not (was not able to) trace the many contacts in the airport who were exposed.

 

Yet again perhaps 50% of the people on flights are vaccinated.  Cruises 100% or perhaps 95%.

 

Put me down as someone that would rather cruise on a 100% vaccinated ship vs fly on a 50% vaccinated plane.

There is interesting data that in Canada they identified over 7000 flights where at least 1 person was infected at the time they flew. In Canada there is a web site where they post such flights for a length of time.

 

Yet there are very few cases of spread on those flights. 

[kirtihk]

On 5/7/2021 at 7:14 PM, ECCruise said:

Because the business set the parameters.  Which is actively eating or drinking.  Which means that eating the meal might take 2 hours but drinking one 12 oz. beer does not.  And they need to turn the table, especially if people are waiting.  Which I think will be exactly the situation when cruising resumes. And how would you know that everyone is vaxxed?

 

But sitting and hogging a seat for 2 hours while you nurse one beer was rude 2 years ago, is rude now, and will be rude 2 years hence. 

I always wander around the ship with bear or whatever else. Now I know why - I decently tried to be not rude.  At least, one of these new noble generous recommendation rules will not be applicable to me.  I know, I know we are not even allowed to run away from others to eat/drink.

[ipeeinthepool]

16 minutes ago, nocl said:

Those will be on a plan by plan basis with the cruise lines.

 

The first indication of how far the CDC will relax the rules on a fully vaccinated ship will be when the first plan is approved.

 

While there is always a possibility that CDC would release such a guidance document, it would be unusual for a regulatory authority to release such. After a vaccination requirement is a decision of the cruise line not a CDC requirement.

 

Most likely the first indication you will see is when the first cruise line submits their plan and gets it approved. Most likely NCL.

 

The advantage of being the first one in is that the others will most likely have to follow a lot of what you agreed to.

 

Why should the cruise lines have to play a guessing game as to what is acceptable for vaccinated passengers and crew?  That's just dumb.

[kirtihk]

On 5/8/2021 at 4:47 AM, GlobalMethod said:

You just don't get it ... understandable ... but ...

 

do you get not being able to walk around nude in public? Do you get not being able to speed in your automobile at 100 MPH when it makes you happy? The reason I think you don't do the above mentioned is out of repspect for the safety and security of others.

 

Following C19 safety protocols can be burdensome but they benefit whatever society you are in, including a cruising society.

These days?  Why not?  no one sees who you are, anyway (unless... they are in your cabin); so, it's a neutral nude.

Edited May 10, 2021 by kirtihk

[kirtihk]

On 5/8/2021 at 8:15 AM, sea-lover95 said:

So you obviously did not read my post. But you're patronizing me over something you thought you read. I said out in 90° weather. We can social distance on Deck especially since they will not be sailing at capacity for a while. So before you reply to a response make sure you read it correctly.  But we do have to start living again without masks that's not how human beings are supposed to live. Not to mention there's no telling what it's doing to our immune system not being exposed to anything. Using extremes of walking around naked and speeding 100 mph that's priceless. 

I just heard on radio this morning a new finding: "a lack of vitamin D is associated with a better percent of chances of getting shmirus." - What a novel discovery!  I learned that when I was around 11 (50 years ago).

[NMTraveller]

15 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Why should the cruise lines have to play a guessing game as to what is acceptable for vaccinated passengers and crew?  That's just dumb.

It is the CDCs version of "Bring Me A Rock".

[nocl]

13 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Why should the cruise lines have to play a guessing game as to what is acceptable for vaccinated passengers and crew?  That's just dumb.

Dumber to wait for a guidance that most likely will never come. Or when it does locks in requirements with less room for negotiation and alternative solutions.

 

Also it would not be guessing because you use the time while getting the port agreements into place to conduct discussions on the plan details to make sure that what you submit will get approved.

 

In many ways working with a regulatory authorities is like the Japanese system of negotiation. Where the points get agreed to by advance discussion so the presentation or submission consists of items previously agreed to in those discussion.

 

Unfortunately at this time it appears that out of the big 3 cruise line holding companies only NCL is actively moving.

[cscurlock]

32 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Why should the cruise lines have to play a guessing game as to what is acceptable for vaccinated passengers and crew?  That's just dumb.

Because there's are a ton of questions that the cruise lines will be responsible for.  Off the top of my head is how will the cruise line confirm the passenger is vaccinated.  Will they create a centralized database and confirm through the region of origin once the ticket is purchased or will they just ask you for the piece of paper that I can buy a forgery of on eBay right now?   Once the cruise lines give them something then they can say what the rules will be under those exact circumstances.  I mean they removed simulated voyages already with requiring vaccinations.  If they get more detailed they might remove mask mandates while in the ship.  But the ball is in the cruise lines court.

Edited May 10, 2021 by cscurlock