Mask Mandate for cruises CDC?

[nocl]

16 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

It is the CDCs version of "Bring Me A Rock".

Believe it or not but government agencies do have devices called telephones and computers, with e-mail, which can be used to exchange ideas about proposals. If necessary they can also be used to request something called a meeting at which ideas and requirements can be discussed.

[markeb]

2 minutes ago, nocl said:

Believe it or not but government agencies do have devices called telephones and computers, with e-mail, which can be used to exchange ideas about proposals. If necessary they can also be used to request something called a meeting at which ideas and requirements can be discussed.

 

And, BTW, none of those are in the public documents. The people in the cruise lines who actually do this have phone numbers, email addresses NAMES, etc., of people in Atlanta who they are (or should be) working with. It's done every day.

 

Do people on CC actually think that the cruise lines are supposed to do this in a vacuum and then FEDEX a box to CDC, Atlanta, Georgia? Is that how you run your business?

[NMTraveller]

4 minutes ago, nocl said:

Believe it or not but government agencies do have devices called telephones and computers, with e-mail, which can be used to exchange ideas about proposals. If necessary they can also be used to request something called a meeting at which ideas and requirements can be discussed.

Yes, but it would be nice to know what they will accept and what they will not.  Put it in writing.  A phone call does not mean that they will accept it.

[ipeeinthepool]

15 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

Because there's are a ton of questions that the cruise lines will be responsible for.  Off the top of my head is how will the cruise line confirm the passenger is vaccinated.  Will they create a centralized database and confirm through the region of origin once the ticket is purchased or will they just ask you for the piece of paper that I can buy a forgery of on eBay right now?   Once the cruise lines give them something then they can say what the rules will be under those exact circumstances.  I mean they removed simulated voyages already with requiring vaccinations.  If they get more detailed they might remove mask mandates while in the ship.  But the ball is in the cruise lines court.

 

The ball is back with the cruise lines because the CDC punted on providing more information and has left a lot of guessing for the cruise lines.  Doesn't have to be this way.  

[nocl]

1 minute ago, NMTraveller said:

Yes, but it would be nice to know what they will accept and what they will not.  Put it in writing.  A phone call does not mean that they will accept it.

As someone who has been on both sides of such discussion. If an agency states that they are in agreement to a point on a call that is documented in the call notes that are supplied to both parties. so if the final document is consistent with the agreement it normally would get approval.

[ipeeinthepool]

5 minutes ago, nocl said:

As someone who has been on both sides of such discussion. If an agency states that they are in agreement to a point on a call that is documented in the call notes that are supplied to both parties. so if the final document is consistent with the agreement it normally would get approval.

 

Sounds like the old saying  "I'm from the government and I'm here to help"   the result is usually not much help.

[kirtihk]

4 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Sounds like the old saying  "I'm from the government and I'm here to help"   the result is usually not much help.

It's called "zero responsibility".  When you allow something, you are responsible for your action; when not - "I told you so!" (anything goes wrong) or "I'm getting a credit for my great prohibitions!" (no life - no harm). 

[kearney]

Well it looks like the cruise lines are continuing to meet with the CDC and apparently have another meeting schedule this week... but as you can see from the headline of the attached cruise critic story... August looks more likely than July https://www.cruisecritic.com/ab/agents/variation-a/news/6105/

 

This isn't surprising at all. If the CDC is anything like the FDA... if they ask for something that is what they want and not what you think they should be able to accept. I worked for a company that thought they could convince the FDA that clinical work done overseas should be acceptable for FDA approval... after 5 years of attempting to convince them the company accepted the fact that the FDA wants what they want and they do not want to show favor in any way shape or form.

 

Today it appears we have about 44% of those who are eligible for vaccine...fully vaccinated and 58% of this same group (>or=18)...We know that the level of protection with even one dose is pretty good and better than flu vaccine many years.  

[nocl]

11 minutes ago, kearney said:

Well it looks like the cruise lines are continuing to meet with the CDC and apparently have another meeting schedule this week... but as you can see from the headline of the attached cruise critic story... August looks more likely than July https://www.cruisecritic.com/ab/agents/variation-a/news/6105/

 

This isn't surprising at all. If the CDC is anything like the FDA... if they ask for something that is what they want and not what you think they should be able to accept. I worked for a company that thought they could convince the FDA that clinical work done overseas should be acceptable for FDA approval... after 5 years of attempting to convince them the company accepted the fact that the FDA wants what they want and they do not want to show favor in any way shape or form.

 

Today it appears we have about 44% of those who are eligible for vaccine...fully vaccinated and 58% of this same group (>or=18)...We know that the level of protection with even one dose is pretty good and better than flu vaccine many years.  

Whole range of reason why FDA only accepts data from overseas trial on a very limited basis. Everything from the regulatory oversite of the institutions that conduct the trial, to the ethnic demographics of the trial participants. More likely to accept data from a trial that is run in addition to the primary phrase 3 trial. Trying to get approval when your entire phase 3 trial is run outside of the US is a pretty high hurdle.

 

Surprised your regulatory affairs department did not understand that.

Edited May 10, 2021 by nocl

[kearney]

24 minutes ago, nocl said:

Whole range of reason why FDA only accepts data from overseas trial on a very limited basis. Everything from the regulatory oversite of the institutions that conduct the trial, to the ethnic demographics of the trial participants. More likely to accept data from a trial that is run in addition to the primary phrase 3 trial. Trying to get approval when your entire phase 3 trial is run outside of the US is a pretty high hurdle.

 

Surprised your regulatory affairs department did not understand that.

My regulatory affairs department in the US did ...it was our foreign team that was convinced they could change their minds.. to be honest I don't recall if it was the regulatory side or upper management...most likely the management team..it has been a few years...  And I don't fault them...they have solid reasons..  

Edited May 10, 2021 by kearney

[K.T.B.]

1 hour ago, kearney said:

Well it looks like the cruise lines are continuing to meet with the CDC and apparently have another meeting schedule this week... but as you can see from the headline of the attached cruise critic story... August looks more likely than July https://www.cruisecritic.com/ab/agents/variation-a/news/6105/

 

This isn't surprising at all. If the CDC is anything like the FDA... if they ask for something that is what they want and not what you think they should be able to accept. I worked for a company that thought they could convince the FDA that clinical work done overseas should be acceptable for FDA approval... after 5 years of attempting to convince them the company accepted the fact that the FDA wants what they want and they do not want to show favor in any way shape or form.

 

Today it appears we have about 44% of those who are eligible for vaccine...fully vaccinated and 58% of this same group (>or=18)...We know that the level of protection with even one dose is pretty good and better than flu vaccine many years.  

 

I still hold fast of my prediction of October before cruising begins again.  I was hoping the CDC and the cruise lines would get their collective heads out of their asses for a mid to late summer start up, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

 

Regardless, I strongly suspect by July we will all know something about WHEN we can all cruise again.

Edited May 10, 2021 by K.T.B.

[nocl]

4 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

I still hold fast of my prediction of October before cruising begins again.  I was hoping the CDC and the cruise lines would get their collective heads out of their asses for a mid to late summer start up, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

 

Regardless, I strongly suspect by July we will all know something about WHEN we can all cruise again.

NCL seems to be extracting theirs.

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, kearney said:

Well it looks like the cruise lines are continuing to meet with the CDC and apparently have another meeting schedule this week... but as you can see from the headline of the attached cruise critic story... August looks more likely than July https://www.cruisecritic.com/ab/agents/variation-a/news/6105/

 

This isn't surprising at all. If the CDC is anything like the FDA... if they ask for something that is what they want and not what you think they should be able to accept. I worked for a company that thought they could convince the FDA that clinical work done overseas should be acceptable for FDA approval... after 5 years of attempting to convince them the company accepted the fact that the FDA wants what they want and they do not want to show favor in any way shape or form.

 

Today it appears we have about 44% of those who are eligible for vaccine...fully vaccinated and 58% of this same group (>or=18)...We know that the level of protection with even one dose is pretty good and better than flu vaccine many years.  

Today's count is 34.8% of total population and 44.3% of those over 18 fully vaccinated.  For at least one dose 46% of total population and 58.2% of those over 18.  We need to make sure everyone gets their second dose for the most effective coverage.

 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations

[kearney]

1 hour ago, harkinmr said:

Today's count is 34.8% of total population and 44.3% of those over 18 fully vaccinated.  For at least one dose 46% of total population and 58.2% of those over 18.  We need to make sure everyone gets their second dose for the most effective coverage.

 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations

That is what I said... I don't look at total pop numbers...since a big group are not eligible (children)

[NMTraveller]

5 hours ago, nocl said:

As someone who has been on both sides of such discussion. If an agency states that they are in agreement to a point on a call that is documented in the call notes that are supplied to both parties. so if the final document is consistent with the agreement it normally would get approval.

The messaging from the CDC is all over the board.  I would not know where to start.  They say if you are vaccinated you do not need to wear a mask outside.  But if you are vaccinated, socially distanced, and by the outside pool on a cruise you must wear a mask?

 

I would want everything in writing.  

 

The Impending Doom show was a little much.

Edited May 10, 2021 by NMTraveller

[NMTraveller]

1 hour ago, K.T.B. said:

 

I still hold fast of my prediction of October before cruising begins again.  I was hoping the CDC and the cruise lines would get their collective heads out of their asses for a mid to late summer start up, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

 

Regardless, I strongly suspect by July we will all know something about WHEN we can all cruise again.

I think that you are close on the timing.  

[harkinmr]

45 minutes ago, kearney said:

That is what I said... I don't look at total pop numbers...since a big group are not eligible (children)

But total population numbers are important because herd immunity is based on 70-85% of the full population vaccinated.  I know children are not eligible yet, but they will be by the Fall.  We need to achieve a much higher percentage of 18 and over vaccinated and uptake is slowing down.  Let's hope things progress in a better direction.

[ipeeinthepool]

At some point soon the CDC will drop the indoor mask mandate it will surprise everyone that thin it it makes sense to follow all of the current CDC guidelines.

[OnTheJourney]

53 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Let's hope things progress in a better direction.

Agreed. In my area, people aren't signing up for their 2nd dose. Big mistake. It in some ways boils down to a race between the variants and vaccination. 

 

2 hours ago, harkinmr said:

We need to make sure everyone gets their second dose for the most effective coverage.

1 hour ago, NMTraveller said:

I still hold fast of my prediction of October before cruising begins again. 

 

Yes..but it's a tough sell - not just for second dose, but even for first. Other than simply not wanting to get it, no excuse since there are vaccination clinics being held all over - at least near me. 

 

As for October...you might be right. Just checked the RCCL website and there are sure a bunch of cruises scheduled for July through the summer. 

[LGW59]

22 hours ago, nocl said:

in lay down seats you are not 11 inches apart. in the other seats you are still sitting forward and in one spot with an occasional visit to the rest room. so the conditions on an air plane with seating, air flow still remain for an 11 hour flight as well as a 2 hour flight. air flowing still top down, filtration still fully replaced cabin air every 5 minutes. masks still required. for international flights testing still required.

 

with covid the crews no longer let passengers stand up an stand for periods of time in the galley areas like they used to.

 

bottom line air craft have demonstrated low transmission rates with relatively few multiple spread events, even before vaccination.

 

This experience is backed up by dozens of studies and tests that demonstrate the reasons why.

I only fly business or first class, even then, I will feel much more comfortable on a ship, I can easily get a single lay down seat on a plane so as to not have to rub shoulders.

[OnTheJourney]

3 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

I only fly business or first class,

Only did a few times - but I'm promising myself that no more long haul flights in economy. Maybe a really nice premium economy...depends on pricing. I like how SAS+ allows access to the business class lounges. We used them for the Northern Lights trip. 

[LGW59]

10 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

Only did a few times - but I'm promising myself that no more long haul flights in economy. Maybe a really nice premium economy...depends on pricing. I like how SAS+ allows access to the business class lounges. We used them for the Northern Lights trip. 

and to be clear, I only fly RT 2x/year.  One to reach my cruise embarkation point and one for my land vacations. 

[nocl]

2 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

The messaging from the CDC is all over the board.  I would not know where to start.  They say if you are vaccinated you do not need to wear a mask outside.  But if you are vaccinated, socially distanced, and by the outside pool on a cruise you must wear a mask?

 

I would want everything in writing.  

 

The Impending Doom show was a little much.

You do know that there are multiple sections of the CDC dealing with a number of different issues.

the requirements 

 

The portion dealing with the cruise lines have been very consistent. This is working on international travel via cruise ship.

[ChucktownSteve]

After 176 posts in this thread, I've lost track.  Has anything officially changed with all this pontificating since the first post ?   Has anyone's opinion changed based on a post?

[K.T.B.]

3 hours ago, OnTheJourney said:

Agreed. In my area, people aren't signing up for their 2nd dose. Big mistake. It in some ways boils down to a race between the variants and vaccination. 

 

Yes..but it's a tough sell - not just for second dose, but even for first. Other than simply not wanting to get it, no excuse since there are vaccination clinics being held all over - at least near me. 

 

As for October...you might be right. Just checked the RCCL website and there are sure a bunch of cruises scheduled for July through the summer. 

 

As I said, I've been saying October for awhile now, with full on cruising cruising by December.  (ALL scheduled ships out of ALL scheduled ports.)