Who in their right mind would want to cruise under these conditions??????

[harkinmr]

4 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

 

The main problem with requiring mask wearing, or not, is  the cruise lines will likely lose half their customers. They cannot fix that so they have to find a way for people to feel and be safe without masks. Sailing at 50% capacity is not a long term option as they lose money on each sailing then.

and since average occupancy is between 105 and 110% due to 3 and 4 in a cabin, the 50% of normal capacity means 45% of realistic old occupancy.

 

Big business issue for the cruise lines.

 

Not going to happen in the real world we all live in, but just for kicks, how DO they find a way for people to "feel and be safe" without masks?

[At Sea At Peace]

36 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

NCL should just implement mask wearing for the health of staff and passengers onboard forever and if you don't want to cruise that is fine but that is our policy end of discussion. And put the line in the sand so to speak. And then staff are only enforcing company policy.

 

If the crew and passengers are fully 100% vaccinated, and the vaccines are as effective as we are told by our government and the regulatory experts (🙄), what is the purpose of masks, social distancing, etc.?

 

Seriously, either the vaccines work or they don't. 

 

Don't tell us they work (please, no retort for the "not a 100% efficacy") the risk of death is almost immeasurable; as well as the chance for a spread "outbreak."

 

 

[JamieLogical]

1 minute ago, harkinmr said:

Not going to happen in the real world we all live in, but just for kicks, how DO they find a way for people to "feel and be safe" without masks?

 

Require 100% vaccination. Oh wait, they are already doing that.

[Giulia]

Me!  Just booked!

 

[harkinmr]

32 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

And how will they monitor that. Install cameras all over the ship and turn ships into a cross between Person of Interest and the movie Silver? Or have undercover cruisers like undercover boss?

You know, ordinarily I would not engage with you for obvious reasons, but on this one I will.  The fact is that the cruise lines are going to be relying on passenger compliance.  It is abundantly unfair for ANY passenger to take advantage of the situation and test or challenge the protocols and place an undue burden on ship staff.  Will they do it?  Likely.  Most European and Asian sailings have sailed without consequential issues.  But then again we know that Americans believe we are different and not subject to the rules.  So we test the boundaries and that will just make it unpleasant for everyone else and could shorten the restart.  We are notoriously selfish with our ideals of "freedom and liberty".

 

To more directly answer your question, there will be CDC inspectors on board and they will still be watching the process even if not overtly present on board. The other caveat is that ship's officers and staff will be responsible for compliance so it is up to them to make sure things go smoothly. I would hate to be the people that would cause a shutdown of the restart process...

[ace2542]

7 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

If the crew and passengers are fully 100% vaccinated, and the vaccines are as effective as we are told by our government and the regulatory experts (🙄), what is the purpose of masks, social distancing, etc.?

 

Seriously, either the vaccines work or they don't. 

 

Don't tell us they work (please, no retort for the "not a 100% efficacy") the risk of death is almost immeasurable; as well as the chance for a spread "outbreak."

 

 

It would be easier for NCL to say it our policy as opposed to enforcing different countries rules. Also what about catching cold and flu on a cruise ship?. Mask wearing would eliminate that. And NCL can roll it's own policy back at some point in the future when this is over if they want to.

[harkinmr]

9 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

Require 100% vaccination. Oh wait, they are already doing that.

Said it before and I'll say it again.  Not going to happen without masks.  I look forward to folks coming back to prove me wrong!

[Navis]

8 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

Require 100% vaccination. Oh wait, they are already doing that.

If we didn’t already have land-based vacations planned for all of 2021 we would be looking into these cruises ... whatever the then-applicable rules were!

 

On the bright side, up here we are extremely pleased with what we are seeing with the trends and I hope that bodes well for getting back to normal sooner! We have one of the highest vaccination rates in the nation and since last week we’ve seen a precipitous drop in cases (like really, off the cliff drop)  and today is the first day in almost a year that we have 0 reported deaths and only single digit new hospitalizations (all of which self-reported as unvaccinated).  
 

The light at the end of the tunnel Is indeed getting brighter.

[ace2542]

7 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

It is abundantly unfair for ANY passenger to take advantage of the situation and test or challenge the protocols and place an undue burden on ship staff

Isn't it also unfair on staff to have enforce these rules and run the risk of being sacked or attacked. Like people think about the life ban when they do something like that. Woman on Cunard got the 7 line carnival ban and deported from U.S as well I think - so 10 year ban from U.S - for assaulting the DJ about 5 years back on new year when he didn't play a song for her. She was 60 apparently. I wonder how she feels about it now.

 

7 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

 

To more directly answer your question, there will be CDC inspectors on board and they will still be watching the process even if not overtly present on board

So you are saying they will come close to revoking the VSP in having people onboard? And if they don't have people onboard then they will be watching the security feeds from Atlanta or some other office? In that case ships will become a cross between Person of Interest and Silver then won't they?

[BermudaBound2014]

9 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

To more directly answer your question, there will be CDC inspectors on board and they will still be watching the process even if not overtly present on board. The other caveat is that ship's officers and staff will be responsible for compliance so it is up to them to make sure things go smoothly. I would hate to be the people that would cause a shutdown of the restart process...

 

I call BS. By the time ships start sailing from the USA the rules will likely be much different than they are now. If my tax dollars are being used for the purpose of CDC inspectors on cruise ships to monitor mask compliance, I will seriously consider another country (kidding, kind-of).

 

This is absurd.  NCL is requiring 100% vaccination. Ship is safe. End of story. Cruiser enjoy. At some point this type of fear mongering will stop. 

 

[ace2542]

14 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Said it before and I'll say it again.  Not going to happen without masks.  I look forward to folks coming back to prove me wrong!

There is some talk mask in UK might be changing in June. Make of that statement what you will.

[harkinmr]

2 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I call BS. By the time ships start sailing from the USA the rules will likely be much different than they are now. If my tax dollars are being used for the purpose of CDC inspectors on cruise ships to monitor mask compliance, I will seriously consider another country (kidding, kind-of).

 

This is absurd.  NCL is requiring 100% vaccination. Ship is safe. End of story. Cruiser enjoy. At some point this type of fear mongering will stop. 

 

And I call BS on you.  Don't be silly.  Your tax dollars are spent for a lot more things that you might otherwise disagree with and you know it.  If anyone thinks that these sailings are not going to be watched or that the cruise lines are not going to enforce the rules, I've got a bridge to sell them.

[ace2542]

2 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

If my tax dollars are being used for the purpose of CDC inspectors on cruise ships to monitor mask compliance

Or to monitor feeds remotely and even install more cameras. After all if CDC wants it they can pay for it.

[ace2542]

2 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

If anyone thinks that these sailings are not going to be watched or that the cruise lines are not going to enforce the rules, I've got a bridge to sell them

So the CDC should and probably will just revoke the Vessel Sanitation Program in and the words of Chengkp75 who knows about this kid of thing "just sit back and watch the cruise industry implode" as opposed to having people onboard purely to monitor mask compliance only. They may as well go the whole hog?

[BermudaBound2014]

2 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

And I call BS on you.  Don't be silly.  Your tax dollars are spent for a lot more things that you might otherwise disagree with and you know it.  If anyone thinks that these sailings are not going to be watched or that the cruise lines are not going to enforce the rules, I've got a bridge to sell them.

 

Ok, time will tell I suppose. Here is what I predict.... the first few cruises from the USA will require some level of mask wearing, better to start safe. I suspect that will phase out very quickly, as will social distancing. If cruise ships are going to sail 100% vaccinated, and vaccinations work, the rest is an exercise in stupidity. Pent up demand only goes so far and then the cruise industry will need to attract more guests.

 

If you believe that the CDC is actually going to be heavily monitoring mask wearing (either in person or electronically), than you might also believe the CDC is out to shut down the entire industry. 

[jingle5616]

1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

And how will they monitor that. Install cameras all over the ship and turn ships into a cross between Person of Interest and the movie Silver? Or have undercover cruisers like undercover boss?

Naw, just hire a crew of Royal Canadian Mounted Policemen.  They are doing a bang up job ticketing, tackling and jailing the non compliant.

[BermudaBound2014]

43 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Not going to happen in the real world we all live in, but just for kicks, how DO they find a way for people to "feel and be safe" without masks?

 

People should feel safe on a ship that is 100% vaccinated. If they don't, perhaps it isn't yet time for them to travel. Seriously, if you are vaccinated, and everyone around you is vaccinated, why in the world would a mask make you feel any more safe?

[harkinmr]

1 minute ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

If you believe that the CDC is actually going to be heavily monitoring mask wearing (either in person or electronically), than you might also believe the CDC is out to shut down the entire industry. 

Touche!  No, I don't think they'll be "heavily monitoring" mask wearing, but there will be enough heat on the cruise lines to make sure things work as promised.  My hope is that cruisers don't take advantage and create problems where none are due.

[HMR74]

1 hour ago, harkinmr said:

Not going to happen in the real world we all live in, but just for kicks, how DO they find a way for people to "feel and be safe" without masks?

That's the big question/issue and its a business problem for all the cruise lines putting CDC aside.

 

Let's start with a premise:

 

Would we agree, as paying customers, that the cruise lines have to find a way to get to high occupancy on a consistent basis?

 

If that answer is yes, then the cruise lines have to find a way, independent and aside from CDC , to make us, the paying customers, feel (and deliver)  that we are reasonably safe from existing hazards and risks  of all types, as well as providing and delivering us a vacation experience that we have come to expect, with the appropriate value aspect.

 

If the cruise lines work hard with CDC  things could work initially.  but when it comes down to it, an outbreak with a bad result will put the cruise line, or all of them on real treacherous water (notice the pun).

It's the one strike you are out theory. 

Yes vaccines, "should" help".

 

However, and I have stated this before, and its based on a year ago when customers/guests, or whatever we are called, have to prove if over 70, that you are in reasonably good condition .

I would say expand that to everybody .

 

That would pretty much take care of the average 4 co morbidity issue that the CDC acknowledged that 95% of the deaths had. Just do not allow someone with more than 2 co morbidities , or something like that, on board. That allows someone overweight and one other issue.

 

Then have testing on board. On a schedule so nobody has to kill 30 minutes in testing. Every x number odf days.

Ad also provide evidence that one does not have covid or another illness inside of 7 days of sailing and have some sort of basic test during check in.

These are just my quick ideas, but some good brainstorming can and should be able to dot the i's and cross t's.

A further thought is what i mentioned earlier, each passenger is responsible for bringing the HCQ and or Ivermectin protocols with them.

 

 And perhaps at the final payment date and the 60 or 90 days or 120 days leading up to the cruise, do something, like giving passengers vitamin d things, and Vit c and zinc--all inexpensive but vital to having a strong immune system---which is the best way to avoid covid and flu and other things

 

But its a business issue and good brainstorming could have gotten to a logical point like this a year ago.

I have been taking D and C and zinc and Sambucas Elderberry gummy bears (not bad tasting) since Feb 2020, and the only time I became ill was just after my second shot. 3 days of slight fever only an hour or so each day.

 

If the CDC is worried, then just have a quarantine program in case there is an outbreak. But if there is an outbreak, tell me, just who is going to want to cruise anyway? Just put the capitalistic approach onus on the cruise lines. aka put up or shut up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[coffeebean]

20 hours ago, cruisin07family said:

You have to be truly ignorant that this is not only possible but likely.  There is no vaccine that hasn't resulted in an anaphalyxis reaction to include death.  It happens with every vaccine.   To deny that is just ridiculous.  It doesn't mean people should not get the Covid vaccines but you can't just write it off.

Anaphylaxis has been reported with the mRNA vaccines BUT.....they have been treated and it has been reported that no one has died from anaphylaxis from the mRNA vaccines.

I do not know anything about the J&J vaccine. I don't follow the reports and data on that vaccine.

[coffeebean]

21 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

There is a big difference between wearing a mask for a short time going in a store and wearing it 24/7 on a ship with 100% vaccination.

 

I probably would not mind wearing one inside where socially distancing was not possible for a short period of time.  Wearing one outside by the pool is a bit much.

 

This whole discussion reminds me of our governor saying that we should wear masks while at home.  Definitely not going to happen.  At some point one must draw the line and raise the "This is crazy flag."

 

 

The passage of mine that you quoted was a response I gave to someone else who said he/she is done wearing masks.

 

As for wearing masks OUTDOORS, I have never worn a  mask outdoors from the beginning of this pandemic. I always keep my distance from others however.

[Tippyton]

4 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

I ignore the sign.  In this area, almost every store has such a sign but no one is enforcing mask wearing.  Every day, more and more are ignoring these signs.

 

Ditto.  Most businesses do it because that's the Flavor-Aid they've been fed.  It's the feel-good move of 2021.

[kirtihk]

3 hours ago, hamrag said:

 

Have you tried disinfectant?

Enough already! For first 31 years I lived under  obedience “rules” 10 hours to the east (remember the song? - “go West. Life is better there”). And it was better. And now... I’m not turning back to zombie. Enough already! When I came here, I worked for 5 years as a dishwasher (having master degree in multiple sciences) with 2 children behind me, and I was grateful to this country! And now?  Enough already! Is pointing fingers what is left? Printing free money? - Is that what is left? Enough already! I left fear behind. I would easily die if all this madness stops if I do.

 

Back to cruising: I think patience is a virtue. We shall see... My prediction is a year from now. No, the virus goes nowhere. Back to normal will resume.

[Tippyton]

6 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

I ignore the sign.  In this area, almost every store has such a sign but no one is enforcing mask wearing.  Every day, more and more are ignoring these signs.

 

I went to a chain haircut place without a mask and I had to hold a towel up to my face.🤣🤣🤣

[Tippyton]

1 hour ago, kirtihk said:

Enough already! For first 31 years I lived under  obedience “rules” 10 hours to the east (remember the song? - “go West. Life is better there”). And it was better. And now... I’m not turning back to zombie. Enough already! When I came here, I worked for 5 years as a dishwasher (having master degree in multiple sciences) with 2 children behind me, and I was grateful to this country! And now?  Enough already! Is pointing fingers what is left? Printing free money? - Is that what is left? Enough already! I left fear behind. I would easily die if all this madness stops if I do.

 

Back to cruising: I think patience is a virtue. We shall see... My prediction is a year from now. No, the virus goes nowhere. Back to normal will resume.

You sir are a true American!  Love your story! 👍