What are the chances Florida gets its way in court today (5/12/21)?

[Ken the cruiser]

It’s Florida’s Governor Rick DeSantis and Attorney General Ashley Moody against the CDC in federal court today. The decision from the U.S. District Judge will be massive for the cruise industry, and not just for Florida, as both Alaska and Texas joined the lawsuit in recent weeks.

 

An Important Day for the U.S. Cruise Industry (cruisehive.com)

[markeb]

I'm not sure they'll even be granted standing. The cruise lines and their employees are arguably the injured parties, not the state. But I'm not an attorney and I didn't stay at a Holliday Inn last night.

[K.T.B.]

Lemme check my Magic 8 Ball.....hold on a sec here....  um......damn.  Reply hazy, try again.

[Mike981]

No surprise.

[Shorex]

If oral arguments are today, then the judge's decision will definitely not be revealed today. However, astute observers can get clues from the questions framed by the judge. For the curious here's the  complaint (a legal term) filed by Florida:

http://myfloridalegal.com/webfiles.nsf/WF/TDGT-BZVLFJ/$file/Fla+v+HHS+and+CDC+complaint.pdf

 

Here's the motion for a preliminary injunction:

https://www.law360.com/articles/1378097/attachments/0

 

Very interesting reading - of course the feds have filed counter arguments. That's the way it goes.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Shorex
typo

[Ken the cruiser]

Here's an update to the drama, but definitely nothing definitive. Sorry.

 

Florida's cruise lawsuit against CDC: Judge set to make decision | wtsp.com

Edited May 12, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[JRG]

I've got a good gut feeling that the Judge is going to rule in favor of the people and the embargo will be lifted.   (in Florida at least)!

 

 

[Jeremiah1212]

I'm not participating in the pot stirring, conspiracy theories, political nonsense, whatever....but this quote from the State of FL is classic.

 

"When it comes to ensuring cruise ships are following their own protocols while out at sea, representation for the state says the industry would be self-regulated."

 

 

[Dolebludger]

In my opinion, Florida has alleged monetary loss sufficient to give it standing. And the CDC has treated cruise lines much more harshly than, say, airlines, which are unable (or unwilling ) to provide social distancing. This amounts to discriminatory treatment of the cruse lines.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

I'm not participating in the pot stirring, conspiracy theories, political nonsense, whatever....but this quote from the State of FL is classic.

 

"When it comes to ensuring cruise ships are following their own protocols while out at sea, representation for the state says the industry would be self-regulated."

 

 

And that statement is likely the death knell of this lawsuit, not just the injunction.

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

I'm not participating in the pot stirring, conspiracy theories, political nonsense, whatever....but this quote from the State of FL is classic.

 

"When it comes to ensuring cruise ships are following their own protocols while out at sea, representation for the state says the industry would be self-regulated."

 

 

I cannot stop laughing!!!  They actually had the temerity to throw that nonsense out to the judge?

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, Dolebludger said:

In my opinion, Florida has alleged monetary loss sufficient to give it standing. And the CDC has treated cruise lines much more harshly than, say, airlines, which are unable (or unwilling ) to provide social distancing. This amounts to discriminatory treatment of the cruse lines.

Except there you have the conundrum.  The cruise lines didn’t bring this lawsuit or join in it. Florida can’t claim damages for the cruise lines.  

[NMTraveller]

1 hour ago, harkinmr said:

Except there you have the conundrum.  The cruise lines didn’t bring this lawsuit or join in it. Florida can’t claim damages for the cruise lines.  

They can claim loss of jobs, wages, and taxes due to them not sailing.

 

I would give it a 50/50 chance.   Magic 8 ball says stay tuned...

They won't let the cruise lines self regulate, but perhaps they are over regulated?

Edited May 13, 2021 by NMTraveller

[chengkp75]

Just now, NMTraveller said:

They can claim loss of jobs, wages, and taxes due to them not sailing.

 

I would give it a 50/50 chance.   Magic 8 ball says stay tuned...

They (the state) could argue loss of taxes, but wages and jobs pertain to those affected, who would have standing, not the state.

[NMTraveller]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

They (the state) could argue loss of taxes, but wages and jobs pertain to those affected, who would have standing, not the state.

Loss of tax revenue due to loss of jobs and unemployment checks expended.

Edited May 13, 2021 by NMTraveller

[cscurlock]

3 hours ago, harkinmr said:

I cannot stop laughing!!!  They actually had the temerity to throw that nonsense out to the judge?

Yeah, Lol, the cruise lines have done so well in the past policing themselves.  Just look at Carnival and all their dumping.  This lawsuit has 0 merit because the parties that are actually harmed are not even bringing the case.  You cant say I'm suing you because you ran over my brothers favorite cat.   That is basically what is happening here.  

[cscurlock]

1 hour ago, NMTraveller said:

They can claim loss of jobs, wages, and taxes due to them not sailing.

 

I would give it a 50/50 chance.   Magic 8 ball says stay tuned...

They won't let the cruise lines self regulate, but perhaps they are over regulated?

The Florida tax bill this year is like 96 billion.  The taxes for the cruise industry is like 82 million which is a drop in the bucket of the total.  Thats not enough harm to overturn a federal agency and their jurisdiction.  Maybe port jobs but are those people still even employed after being laid off over a year?  I doubt they are even employed at this point and most of those workers have probably moved on.  Hotels, restaurants are in Florida which is a travel destination unto itself so not sure how much harm is there.   

Edited May 13, 2021 by cscurlock

[Turtles06]

16 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Here's an update to the drama, but definitely nothing definitive. Sorry.

 

Florida's cruise lawsuit against CDC: Judge set to make decision | wtsp.com

From that article: “District Judge Steven Merryday asked the state what its plan would be to ensure public safety if he granted the injunction. To which, the attorneys for Florida pointed to the state's aggressive vaccination program . . ..”

 

But, but, but . . . DeSantis says the cruise lines can’t require guests to be vaccinated! 

[nocl]

If the state picked the right venue and got a friendly judge (highly possible in a federal district inside Florida) the state might get a favorable ruling  even with its laughable case.  In which case it would be immediately appealed, the result stayed until appeal. Where it would be, almost certainly, over turned.

Edited May 13, 2021 by nocl

[TeeRick]

2 minutes ago, nocl said:

If the state picked the right venue and got a friendly judge (highly possible in a federal district inside Florida) the state might get a favorable ruling  even with its laughable case.  In which case it would be immediately appealed, the result stayed until appeal. Where it would be, almost certainly, over turned.

Yes that is what I was thinking too.  The appeal process will last longer than the pandemic.

[paulh84]

19 minutes ago, Turtles06 said:

From that article: “District Judge Steven Merryday asked the state what its plan would be to ensure public safety if he granted the injunction. To which, the attorneys for Florida pointed to the state's aggressive vaccination program . . ..”

 

But, but, but . . . DeSantis says the cruise lines can’t require guests to be vaccinated! 

 

Which is why the cruise lines themselves have stayed out of this. They know it's a circus and they have a lot of real actual meaningful work to do.

[harkinmr]

19 minutes ago, Turtles06 said:

From that article: “District Judge Steven Merryday asked the state what its plan would be to ensure public safety if he granted the injunction. To which, the attorneys for Florida pointed to the state's aggressive vaccination program . . ..”

 

But, but, but . . . DeSantis says the cruise lines can’t require guests to be vaccinated! 

Just remarkable. Not only are they exaggerating their “aggressive vaccination program” but the irony is priceless. Between this and their response to the judge’s question about protecting public safety without the CSO: self-regulation sir.  Defies description really. 

[harkinmr]

16 minutes ago, nocl said:

If the state picked the right venue and got a friendly judge (highly possible in a federal district inside Florida) the state might get a favorable ruling  even with its laughable case.  In which case it would be immediately appealed, the result stayed until appeal. Where it would be, almost certainly, over turned.

And the judge knows that. Judges tend to measure each decision with an eye toward being turned over on appeal. It’s not that easy to assume a “friendly” judge even in Florida. Merryday is a H W Bush appointee, but that does not make him anti-government. 

[Homosassa]

I read the complaint and the motion for preliminary injunction.

 

I don't know where to start to explain the misrepresentation of regulatory authority for the CDC, the double thinking  of pushing the use of vaccines, sanitation and social distancing while forbidding such restrictions in the state for most business entities, or somehow the idea that only Florida's (lackluster) control of the spread of Covid 19 and the different variants in the state is the only state that impacts passengers from jurisdictions outside the state.

 

By inference, the only way a cruise line could operate safely is by assuring that all passengers and crew are vaccinated (you know, Florida's aggressive vaccination program) and yet meanwhile having a state policy of not allowing enforcement of attempts to enforce social distancing, masking or determination of vaccination status just makes one's head spin.

 

I would be very surprised if any judge would grant this injunction.

 

 

[harkinmr]

17 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

I read the complaint and the motion for preliminary injunction.

 

I don't know where to start to explain the misrepresentation of regulatory authority for the CDC, the double thinking  of pushing the use of vaccines, sanitation and social distancing while forbidding such restrictions in the state for most business entities, or somehow the idea that only Florida's (lackluster) control of the spread of Covid 19 and the different variants in the state is the only state that impacts passengers from jurisdictions outside the state.

 

By inference, the only way a cruise line could operate safely is by assuring that all passengers and crew are vaccinated (you know, Florida's aggressive vaccination program) and yet meanwhile having a state policy of not allowing enforcement of attempts to enforce social distancing, masking or determination of vaccination status just makes one's head spin.

 

I would be very surprised if any judge would grant this injunction.

 

 

Agreed. Just because statements and assertions are made in a legal filing does not make them so.  It boggles the mind that people otherwise believe that to be the case.  Facts are facts and the law is the law.  This judge will apply the law to the facts.