Lets get back to cruising from Florida!

[lazydayz]

Posting in the hopes my Mariner of the Seas or Allure of the Seas cruises can leave from Port Canaveral as mostly vaccinated cruises.  What the new Florida law prohibits is a business from REQUIRING documentation about COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection recovery.  However, there is no prohibition from requesting it, and if given voluntarily, treating vaccinated guests differently.  So if Royal requires masks for everyone, but you get an exemption if you are vaccinated, I don't see how that violates the new law (Disclaimer:  This is not legal advice, but hey Royal, run it by your attorneys).  Then provide the mask mandate applies everywhere outside your cabin, unless seated and actively eating or drinking.    

 

And to make it painfully obvious who did not provide vaccine status, issue a bracelet that must be visible at all times (just for fun, make it glow in the dark, maybe a bright lime green).  Then debark any one who violates the mask rule at the next port, and impose a lifetime ban.  I can't imagine many anti-vaxxers would cruise under these rules, but if they cruise by the rules, no problem (up to limit imposes by the CDC - five percent, I think). 

 

If you are interested, the new law is Florida Statutes Section 381.00316, and is entitled COVID-19 vaccine documentation.

[jrapps]

While this is an interesting idea of a way to get around the FL law, it is likely a non starter. Too difficult to enforce, and do we really want to be in a situation where an entire subset of the population is forced wears something to identify themselves? Images of *** Germany come to mind. If there is no law against that you can be sure one will appear long before this sailing could ever happen.

 

As much as I want to sail on a mostly vaccinated cruise, this isn't going to be the way to do it.

 

They are either going to defy the FL law and require vaccinations, or do test sailings and no vaccines required at all. I just don't see a middle ground.

[Iamcruzin]

2 hours ago, lazydayz said:

Posting in the hopes my Mariner of the Seas or Allure of the Seas cruises can leave from Port Canaveral as mostly vaccinated cruises.  What the new Florida law prohibits is a business from REQUIRING documentation about COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection recovery.  However, there is no prohibition from requesting it, and if given voluntarily, treating vaccinated guests differently.  So if Royal requires masks for everyone, but you get an exemption if you are vaccinated, I don't see how that violates the new law (Disclaimer:  This is not legal advice, but hey Royal, run it by your attorneys).  Then provide the mask mandate applies everywhere outside your cabin, unless seated and actively eating or drinking.    

 

And to make it painfully obvious who did not provide vaccine status, issue a bracelet that must be visible at all times (just for fun, make it glow in the dark, maybe a bright lime green).  Then debark any one who violates the mask rule at the next port, and impose a lifetime ban.  I can't imagine many anti-vaxxers would cruise under these rules, but if they cruise by the rules, no problem (up to limit imposes by the CDC - five percent, I think). 

 

If you are interested, the new law is Florida Statutes Section 381.00316, and is entitled COVID-19 vaccine documentation.

This is a perfect example of the discrimination that the law is trying to prevent.

[flamingos]

The governor isn't helping:  Calling Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings “not one of the bigger ones,” Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said Thursday that if smaller cruise lines want to leave the state because of bans on vaccine requirements, their void will be filled.

 

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/florida-will-fill-void-if-small-cruise-lines-leave-desantis/2450536/?fbclid=IwAR2mt-jacMEyaSvZg3YHL6_Cse7Ry7fbVmt_d2XLuFXV7Xm2ydQOjyai8e0

[John&LaLa]

1 hour ago, Iamcruzin said:

This is a perfect example of the discrimination that the law is trying to prevent.

 

I wonder where the ACLU stands on vaccine passports🤔

[harkinmr]

3 hours ago, lazydayz said:

Posting in the hopes my Mariner of the Seas or Allure of the Seas cruises can leave from Port Canaveral as mostly vaccinated cruises.  What the new Florida law prohibits is a business from REQUIRING documentation about COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection recovery.  However, there is no prohibition from requesting it, and if given voluntarily, treating vaccinated guests differently.  So if Royal requires masks for everyone, but you get an exemption if you are vaccinated, I don't see how that violates the new law (Disclaimer:  This is not legal advice, but hey Royal, run it by your attorneys).  Then provide the mask mandate applies everywhere outside your cabin, unless seated and actively eating or drinking.    

 

And to make it painfully obvious who did not provide vaccine status, issue a bracelet that must be visible at all times (just for fun, make it glow in the dark, maybe a bright lime green).  Then debark any one who violates the mask rule at the next port, and impose a lifetime ban.  I can't imagine many anti-vaxxers would cruise under these rules, but if they cruise by the rules, no problem (up to limit imposes by the CDC - five percent, I think). 

 

If you are interested, the new law is Florida Statutes Section 381.00316, and is entitled COVID-19 vaccine documentation.

Actually, the Florida Governor’s Executive Order and the law to take effect July 1 precludes requiring proof of vaccine or requesting evidence of the same.  

[Dunfer]

I really like this idea!  I do not believe it is discriminatory at all.  If you are black, white or Asian, you have no control over that. You can’t choose or change that.  If you choose to be vaccinated or not, that is your choice.  I am all about choices. I am vaccinated and I am ready to cruise, whatever it takes.

[jrapps]

18 minutes ago, Dunfer said:

I really like this idea!  I do not believe it is discriminatory at all.  If you are black, white or Asian, you have no control over that. You can’t choose or change that.  If you choose to be vaccinated or not, that is your choice.  I am all about choices. I am vaccinated and I am ready to cruise, whatever it takes.

Just because you choose something doesn't make it non-discriminatory. Be careful, it's a slippery slope. Where do you draw the line? Require people to wear a different color wrist band depending on vaccination status? True it is not a "protected class" but that doesn't make it right.

 

What if they were asking for all vegans to wear it? Everyone who has diabetes? Everyone who is Jewish? Everyone who is LGBTQ.

 

A business has the right to deny service to anyone for any reason (unless it is discriminatory to a protected class, i.e. race, religion etc). However, they don't have the right to require that people brandish themselves based on something, protected class or not.

[jrapps]

I think it's the "painfully obvious" part of the OP idea that is troublesome. That is basically inviting others to persecute them based on their choice.

 

I have no issue with people on a cruise being entitled to different levels of service, as long as those were made clear prior to the cruise and they CHOOSE to sail knowing those limitations. Now here is where we get into that grey area with the new FL law, but putting that aside for the moment, you get into discrimination when people are treated differently but are not choosing to be treated differently.

 

If you say everyone can come on the cruise, but only those vaccinated are allowed to go ashore at stops, or to to mask-free shows on the ship, then you are making that clear upfront, people choose to go or not based on these rules, and they can be easily enforced based on your room key. The OP "idea" is make the experience so miserable for the non-vaccinated that most if not all would CHOOSE not to go, essentially making it a 100% vaccinated cruise without REQUIRING it, thus getting around the FL law. I don't necessarily have an issue with this idea. The problem comes with the glow in the dark mandatory brandished wristband that screams "I'm not vaccinated!!!!". That is where you have the potential to get into discriminatory social issues.

[Dunfer]

Still not discriminatory. It’s a choice. Cruise vaccinated, without having to wear a mask, or, cruise wearing a mask. Your choice. No one is forcing you to cruise, nor preventing it.

[3kidsncats]

I wouldn’t sail on a cruise in the next 6 months under this plan.  Seems like a ripe environment for people to fight, people to disregard the policies, etc. I think cruise lines are better off doing vaccine required cruises from ports that won’t cause a big legal showdown.  I don’t think it will take long for pressure to build in FL, for an exclusion for cruise lines.  Too many depend on the industry.

[PhoenixCruiser]

Royal Caribbean just might be sailing out of CA before they sail out of FL and that would work for me.

 

 

[ReneeFLL]

4 hours ago, jrapps said:

......What if they were asking for all vegans to wear it? Everyone who has diabetes? Everyone who is Jewish? Everyone who is LGBTQ....

That’s ridiculous because being Jewish, vegan, etc isn’t going to possibly make anyone sick. Someone who isn’t vaccinated has a possibility of spreading covid. HUGE difference.

[harkinmr]

7 hours ago, jrapps said:

I think it's the "painfully obvious" part of the OP idea that is troublesome. That is basically inviting others to persecute them based on their choice.

 

I have no issue with people on a cruise being entitled to different levels of service, as long as those were made clear prior to the cruise and they CHOOSE to sail knowing those limitations. Now here is where we get into that grey area with the new FL law, but putting that aside for the moment, you get into discrimination when people are treated differently but are not choosing to be treated differently.

 

If you say everyone can come on the cruise, but only those vaccinated are allowed to go ashore at stops, or to to mask-free shows on the ship, then you are making that clear upfront, people choose to go or not based on these rules, and they can be easily enforced based on your room key. The OP "idea" is make the experience so miserable for the non-vaccinated that most if not all would CHOOSE not to go, essentially making it a 100% vaccinated cruise without REQUIRING it, thus getting around the FL law. I don't necessarily have an issue with this idea. The problem comes with the glow in the dark mandatory brandished wristband that screams "I'm not vaccinated!!!!". That is where you have the potential to get into discriminatory social issues.

First, cruise lines will make a choice. Fully vaccinated or unvaccinated/partially vaccinated cruises for ease of policing all of these types of situations. Unfortunately, cruise lines may have to apply unvaccinated rules and standards where there is a mix.  That, obviously, would make vaccinated folks unhappy, but as long as you know what you are getting into ahead of time there is no reason to complain. Second, the cruise line could make any distinction it likes because “unvaccinated” is not a protected class under the law. It is not discrimination to allow or disallow activities based on vaccinated status. At least not yet. 

[jean87510]

I have been following this topic re Florida for some time.  I usually fly to other places to start my cruises although I have been on some that originated or ended in my home state of NJ.  I was curious about this scenario and I apologize if already debated.  Could RCCL ask for proof of vaccination if the ports visited required it in order to get off ship and not violate the FL law?  

[livingonthebeach]

 

12 hours ago, lazydayz said:

....And to make it painfully obvious who did not provide vaccine status, issue a bracelet that must be visible at all times (just for fun, make it glow in the dark, maybe a bright lime green)....

 

LOL — let’s make it a status symbol instead of a scarlet..uhm lime green letter — sort of like a Pinn pin.  If they give the lime green light, I’ll crowdfund the initiative.  I’ve even developed some prototypes.

 

[harkinmr]

4 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

I have been following this topic re Florida for some time.  I usually fly to other places to start my cruises although I have been on some that originated or ended in my home state of NJ.  I was curious about this scenario and I apologize if already debated.  Could RCCL ask for proof of vaccination if the ports visited required it in order to get off ship and not violate the FL law?  

Yes. If the country required vaccinations the ship would only be able to anchor/dock and disembark if they met that requirement. 

[livingonthebeach]

10 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

I have been following this topic re Florida for some time.  I usually fly to other places to start my cruises although I have been on some that originated or ended in my home state of NJ.  I was curious about this scenario and I apologize if already debated.  Could RCCL ask for proof of vaccination if the ports visited required it in order to get off ship and not violate the FL law?  

 

It’s an Executive Order not Florida law and can be challenged. First hurdle is the CDC and then this, which is much easier to circumvent.

[SUSIEK]

8 hours ago, Dunfer said:

I really like this idea!  I do not believe it is discriminatory at all.  If you are black, white or Asian, you have no control over that. You can’t choose or change that.  If you choose to be vaccinated or not, that is your choice.  I am all about choices. I am vaccinated and I am ready to cruise, whatever it takes.

Agree 100%.   I don’t find it discriminatory at all.  Let the business decide what’s works for them.  If they are profitable sailing with only vaccinated passengers then why not?  It wouldn’t be forever. 

If they find out it’s not working to their benefit ($) allow them to decide to change their rules.  

 

Remember when Carnival had the “non smoking” ship? The Paradise. Well... it’s not non smoking anymore. Not because the cry about being discriminatory, but because it wasn’t filling beds. 

 

If a cruise line wants to allow anyone and not require vaccinated passengers then fine.  Go for it.  

But remember.... if there’s an outbreak on a ship we can probably forget about cruising for a long time. Crazy, I know, but for some reason govt seems to dislike cruising 🤷‍♀️. 

 

Just my opinion as I have my Saturday morning coffee!  Have a great day everyone 😃.  

[SUSIEK]

16 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

 

LOL — let’s make it a status symbol instead of a scarlet..uhm lime green letter — sort of like a Pinn pin.  If they give the lime green light, I’ll crowdfund the initiative.  I’ve even developed some prototypes.

 

How about classifying the ship.  There’s plenty of ships.   Like Carnival did.  The Paradise was, at one time, all no smoking.  It is now btw. 
They didn’t do this on ALL their ships. Just one.  
No reason why a cruise line couldn’t have a ship that requires passengers be vaccinated.  Have other ships not require. 🤔 

 

 

[BirdTravels]

12 hours ago, lazydayz said:

Posting in the hopes my Mariner of the Seas or Allure of the Seas cruises can leave from Port Canaveral as mostly vaccinated cruises.  What the new Florida law prohibits is a business from REQUIRING documentation about COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection recovery.  However, there is no prohibition from requesting it, and if given voluntarily, treating vaccinated guests differently.  So if Royal requires masks for everyone, but you get an exemption if you are vaccinated, I don't see how that violates the new law (Disclaimer:  This is not legal advice, but hey Royal, run it by your attorneys).  Then provide the mask mandate applies everywhere outside your cabin, unless seated and actively eating or drinking.    

 

And to make it painfully obvious who did not provide vaccine status, issue a bracelet that must be visible at all times (just for fun, make it glow in the dark, maybe a bright lime green).  Then debark any one who violates the mask rule at the next port, and impose a lifetime ban.  I can't imagine many anti-vaxxers would cruise under these rules, but if they cruise by the rules, no problem (up to limit imposes by the CDC - five percent, I think). 

 

If you are interested, the new law is Florida Statutes Section 381.00316, and is entitled COVID-19 vaccine documentation.

It is your Governor trying to legislate something he has zero business doing. It is only hurting Florida residents that are out of work because of it. It is not limited to cruise ship workers, it is everyone that supports the industry. 

[livingonthebeach]

4 minutes ago, SUSIEK said:

How about classifying the ship.  There’s plenty of ships.   Like Carnival did.  The Paradise was, at one time, all no smoking.  It is now btw. 
They didn’t do this on ALL their ships. Just one.  
No reason why a cruise line couldn’t have a ship that requires passengers be vaccinated.  Have other ships not require. 🤔 

 

 

 

Sounds good to me — any idea to get cruises going again is worth considering.  Let’s hope the CDC relaxes their policy a bit and allows flexibility.

[jrapps]

5 hours ago, ReneeFLL said:

That’s ridiculous because being Jewish, vegan, etc isn’t going to possibly make anyone sick. Someone who isn’t vaccinated has a possibility of spreading covid. HUGE difference.

Hey I'm not disagreeing with you. All I'm saying is requiring people to wear some sort of identifying band for any reason will end with a myriad of privacy lawsuits. I'm fully vaccinated and I would wear a wristband with pride. But I wouldn't want to be in a position where unvaccinated people are required to identify themselves like that, because I know how I would feel if I was required to identify myself for any other reason.

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

It’s an Executive Order not Florida law and can be challenged. First hurdle is the CDC and then this, which is much easier to circumvent.

It is Florida law. The EO has been incorporated into legislation signed by the Governor. It will take effect July 1st.  But even that can be challenged and likely will.  Too bad it would require that by the cruise lines.  

[livingonthebeach]

10 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

It is Florida law. The EO has been incorporated into legislation signed by the Governor. It will take effect July 1st.  But even that can be challenged and likely will.  Too bad it would require that by the cruise lines.  

Sorry - if you want to split hairs I should have said it is not Florida law YET.  Looking at it from a positive perspective, it is possible for an agreement to be made between the governor and the cruise lines which is a more likely scenario.