Florida wins injunction over CDC's CSO

[DCGuy64]

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/25266-florida-wins-court-case-against-cdc-to-lift-conditional-sail-order.html

This is awesome.

[DCGuy64]

11 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

LOL.

 

Pass around the 'crow' to the legal experts.

 

124 pages of ~

 

Wrong.

 

Wrong.

 

Wrong.

 

 

🙃

 

Now we will see retorts that 'it was from 'a DeSantis Judge.  🙄

 

And, of course, with the same guarantee, it will be overturned on appeal.  😁

Right? Looks like crow is on the menu tonight for all of the DeSantis haters. (And you know who you are!)

[cruisinghawg]

1 minute ago, Tapi said:

I think that even if a judge had said that cruises could proceed with zero protocols and restrictions, the cruise lines will still choose to have some protocols in place. I’m guessing that news outlets will be watching the cruise industry closely after this ruling. 

No doubt that microscopic over watch by the press will be monumental. 

[coldflame]

I think it's clear from the conclusion that, other claims aside, the CDC "expert" failed royally. Other people familiar with the case had raised concerns with the expert report/testimony the CDC provided (ranging from her titles and degrees to her lack epidemiology/virology expertise). Amy Powell must all sorts of pissed the CDC did not provide an adequate expert to make the case.

 

The motion for the proposed injunction must support the 
proposed terms [...] scientific evidence, including methodology, raw data, analysis, and the 
like and the names and qualifications of the scientists participating in the study, 
modeling, or the like.

[jakeil7]

There will be an appeal, so I would not get too excited. 

[DWBirdman]

Hopefully this can be the first nail in the coffin of the CDC overreach.

[coldflame]

3 minutes ago, jakeil7 said:

There will be an appeal, so I would not get too excited. 

 

I don't think it will be appealed yet. The case still open and the judge did not set aside/vacate the CSO. It will change from mandatory to suggested July 18th unless the CDC proposes a new CSO that's reasonable in the framework put forth by the court (by July 2nd). So there is a possibility the CSO will remain as mandatory. Florida, of course will have a chance to respond to that and the Judge will issue a decision on those. The order also ordered both parties to return to mediation, so the judge clearly wants both parties to compromise.

[DCGuy64]

6 minutes ago, jakeil7 said:

There will be an appeal, so I would not get too excited. 

I doubt it, the CDC is on the ropes as it is. The judge clearly didn't buy their arguments and they've just lowered the risk level for cruising. https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/cruise-travel-cdc-lowers-warning/index.html

Cruising is safe, the judge effectively said so, so did Florida, and Florida won. End of.

[BSocial]

Does this mean beginning July 18, Royal  and Celebrity will drop the separate venues on Florida sailings, and no mask or vaccine mandate on board? 

Edited June 18, 2021 by BSocial

[DWBirdman]

3 minutes ago, BSocial said:

Does this mean beginning July 18, Royal  and Celebrity will drop the separate venues on Florida sailings, and no mask or vaccine mandate on board? 

 

One can hope.

[cruisinghawg]

3 minutes ago, BSocial said:

Does this mean beginning July 18, Royal  and Celebrity will drop the separate venues on Florida sailings, and no mask or vaccine mandate on board? 

I wouldn't go that far and I do not think they will either.

[coldflame]

10 minutes ago, BSocial said:

Does this mean beginning July 18, Royal  and Celebrity will drop the separate venues on Florida sailings, and no mask or vaccine mandate on board? 

Way too early to tell the repercussions to the cruise in the short term. The orders were very lenient i.e. the judge did not vacate or set aside the CSO. The CDC has the chance to propose a new CSO that's within the rules set by the court, which if the Judge rules it sufficient, they will remain mandatory. For example the CDC could say "sail with 100% vaccination and you can cough on each other mouths no other rules" and the judge could agree with that. If a case is a war, is undeniable FL won an important battle today, but the way the judge is deciding the case is clear there are a lot of doors open here in which the CDC can work this out.

Edited June 18, 2021 by coldflame

[jean87510]

45 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Right? Looks like crow is on the menu tonight for all of the DeSantis haters. (And you know who you are!)

😁

[DallasGuy75219]

11 minutes ago, BSocial said:

Does this mean beginning July 18, Royal  and Celebrity will drop the separate venues on Florida sailings, and no mask or vaccine mandate on board? 

If they want COVID outbreaks that will halt cruising again, yes.

[MrMarc]

1 hour ago, coldflame said:

The scope of this preliminary decision is very narrow: it applies to FL only.

I think it is much broader than that because it finds that the CDC overstepped it's statutory power, so that would apply everywhere.

[John&LaLa]

20 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

I doubt it, the CDC is on the ropes as it is. The judge clearly didn't buy their arguments and they've just lowered the risk level for cruising. https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/cruise-travel-cdc-lowers-warning/index.html

Cruising is safe, the judge effectively said so, so did Florida, and Florida won. End of.

 

Maybe the CDC is looking for an out, so no appeal 

 

Realised they over stepped, but want to save face

[John&LaLa]

12 minutes ago, cruisinghawg said:

I wouldn't go that far and I do not think they will either.

 

Let them self regulate 🤔

[smokeybandit]

Lack of a binding CSO affects more how quickly and easily cruises can restart, not necessarily how "back to normal" things are during a cruise.

[ChutChut]

Tried to tell the naysayers FL's case was compelling but no one listened....

[Ferry_Watcher]

6 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Let them self regulate 🤔

Darwinism at its best.  Not sure if a non vaccinated adult (especially an older adult male) should take those odds.

[harkinmr]

7 minutes ago, coldflame said:

 

I don't think it will be appealed yet. The case still open and the judge did not set aside/vacate the CSO. It will change from mandatory to suggested July 18th unless the CDC proposes a new CSO that's reasonable in the framework put forth by the court (by July 2nd). So there is a possibility the CSO will remain as mandatory. Florida, of course will have a chance to respond to that and the Judge will issue a decision on those. The order also ordered both parties to return to mediation, so the judge clearly wants both parties to compromise.

I’m not sure that the order granting the injunction but leaving the CSO in place for 30 days (pending a new CSO and mediation) necessarily precludes the CDC from filing an appeal immediately.  The district court’s order could be stayed pending the appeal.  I don’t think that the CDC will just back away at this point. We will see what comes out of the mediation and what the CDC comes up with to replace the current version of the CSO.  
 

It will be interesting to see how this order impacts the current approval process for new sailings, as well as the RCI test cruises that still need to happen before July/August sailings.  Will it slow down the process?  It will also be interesting to see what happens with Alaska cruises and whether Conditional Sailing Certificates will be issued or even valid. The Alaska legislation may ultimately have to be amended. 
 

 

[ChutChut]

14 minutes ago, DallasGuy75219 said:

If they want COVID outbreaks that will halt cruising again, yes.

The previous disaster was due to the negligence of Princess (and I love Princess) and Japan. We've learned a lot in over a year.

[Yorkvillain]

Did they say if my Allure cruise is going to happen???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t have the Allure booked. I was just waiting for someone to say something like that.  

[harkinmr]

13 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Maybe the CDC is looking for an out, so no appeal 

 

Realised they over stepped, but want to save face

I highly doubt that. 

[ChutChut]

20 minutes ago, coldflame said:

Way too early to tell the repercussions to the cruise in the short term. The orders were very lenient i.e. the judge did not vacate or set aside the CSO. The CDC has the chance to propose a new CSO that's within the rules set by the court, which if the Judge rules it sufficient, they will remain mandatory. For example the CDC could say "sail with 100% vaccination and you can cough on each other mouths no other rules" and the judge could agree with that. If a case is a war, is undeniable FL won an important battle today, but the way the judge is deciding the case is clear there are a lot of doors open here in which the CDC can work this out.

Incorrect. The judge very clearly indicated the current CSO is invalid and gave the CDC one month to amend it consistent with the court order.