Florida wins injunction over CDC's CSO

[xpcdoojk]

1 hour ago, A&L_Ont said:

With the great divide I see here, I am happy that I don’t have a cruise until March of next year.
 

I’m starting to wonder, if these debates carry onto the ship will it even leave the dock.  I’m not sure if our combined love of cruising can eclipse these discussions.  I guess we will see as ships eventually depart from the states.
 

Like I said, I’m glad I don’t have a cruise booked for a long time to come. 

I don’t think so Andrew.  Those on board are mostly going to be well aware of the risks and the consequences.  It might be the most special moment on a cruise, where everyone onboard is onboard because they “know” what they are doing and why.  

 

Life is to be lived.  

 

I took the shot as did my lovely wife.  I do not want to continue lock down forever, until we have a 400 hundred trillion dollar deficit.  

 

JC

[vjmatty]

3 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Of course, the ports of call don't have to listen to the CDC or Florida. Now they are going to have to strengthen their protocols to protect themselves.

Exactly.  Which makes this a hollow victory. 

[Etta1213]

20 minutes ago, vjmatty said:

I have no dog in this race as I’m not from Florida and don’t sail from there, but the crow will unfortunately be eaten by those who’ve won the battle but lost the war…. by having to stay on the ship at all of the ports requiring a vaccine. 

Is there a list of those ports? Just curious. (I'm vaccinated.)

[harkinmr]

32 minutes ago, xpcdoojk said:

So, they lose their Monopoly money?  What exactly have they invested other than making up rules that destroy one business and leave another business able to operate?  Is that something we want government to do?  Pick winners and losers?

 

I hope for your sake your side of government never loses.

 

Most of us don’t depend on the government for our lives.  We do the work ourselves.  We INVEST in ourselves.  

Lol! The government has been picking winners and losers (on both sides of the political spectrum) for decades.  You know perfectly well (or at least you should) that the CDC investment I was talking about is its political capital.  And that’s been going on for decades too.  Finally, every one of us, including you, depends on the government in one way or another every day of our lives.  So you can now get down off your high horse. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by harkinmr

[vjmatty]

3 minutes ago, Etta1213 said:

Is there a list of those ports? Just curious. (I'm vaccinated.)

Honestly I haven’t checked in a while, but last I looked when the FL law was just an executive order, the list was pretty extensive and included most of the Caribbean and Europe. 

[Tippyton]

3 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

How the CDC chooses to react.

 

Chest pounding or tail between legs

Neither.  They're still wondering what just happened.

[Tippyton]

5 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Let them self regulate 🤔

Said that months ago - vaccinate crew, support port countries with vaccines,  cruise at your own risk.  The market will sort itself out if you let it.

[RedIguana]

OK, so the judge just told the CDC to amend their CSO to require vaccinations, not just make it a suggestion. That is what I got out of a brief read. Will read more in depth tomorrow. I think the judge handed the CDC a win if they read it right. Basically said vaccines and heard immunity work, make that the limited order and I will uphold that....

[ONECRUISER]

3 hours ago, Pratique said:

Curious how you feel about Adventure's first voyage. I'm on the fence, it didn't sound as much fun as it should have been.

Postings and Daily Videos I read/watched they enjoyed it. I Cruised 4 times Post 9/11, actually enjoyed myself. Only 40-70% Passengers, no crowding/waiting, fast service and Hot Food. When us Diamonds(top tier then) met with Senior Officers was 2 to 1. I got talk with Captain for over 10 min, Chief Engineer for 15 and Cruise Director for 10.

[BlerkOne]

6 hours ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

Except the judge clearly stated that whatever proposed revisions the CDC submits must be in line with the requirements for other forms of travel. Since no other form of travel requires vaccinations - and since the judge even appeared skeptical of 95% vaccinated passenger requirement, it would seem doubtful he would accept requiring cruise passengers to be vaccinated.

I think a clear error on the part of the judge. Cruise ships are not forms of transportation. They are not under TSA.

[ChuckRambo]

16 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

I think a clear error on the part of the judge. Cruise ships are not forms of transportation. They are not under TSA.

Actually not true. Cruise ships are most definitely a form of transportation. The TSA is subordinate  to the Coast Guard in this particular federal turf war and acts as a support agency to the CG for maritime passenger vessels and their security.

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, ChuckRambo said:

Actually not true. Cruise ships are most definitely a form of transportation. The TSA is subordinate  to the Coast Guard in this particular federal turf war and acts as a support agency to the CG for maritime passenger vessels and their security.

TSA has nothing to do with cruise port security or cruise line security other than in an advisory capacity. Cruise lines are responsible to write their port security plans, subject to USCG approval.

 

Ocean liners are transportation, as in they transport people from point A to point B. Cruise ships in the US, for the most part are round trip voyages, at the end of the day, you are back where you started.

[ChuckRambo]

Just now, BlerkOne said:

TSA has nothing to do with cruise port security or cruise line security other than in an advisory capacity. Cruise lines are responsible to write their port security plans, subject to USCG approval.

 

Ocean liners are transportation, as in they transport people from point A to point B. Cruise ships in the US, for the most part are round trip voyages, at the end of the day, you are back where you started.

I’m pretty sure you just reiterated my post. Here is the quote from the TSA website, though, if you want the exact wording:

 

“The U.S. Coast Guard is the lead federal agency in securing the maritime mode of transportation. TSA supports the U.S. Coast Guard in its maritime security efforts and focuses primarily on passenger security and intermodal connectivity to ports. TSA also supports the U.S. Coast Guard by producing and distributing security training materials for passenger vessel crews and terminal employees.” 

 

Cruise ships are transportation and the fact that the CG is in charge of them at the federal level rather than the TSA does not make it any less so. Feel free to split hairs all you want, though.

[chengkp75]

14 hours ago, molly361 said:

Sorry still need the cliff notes version😇

Just did a quick scroll through, and found some interesting tidbits, that won't be popular here.  The judge waffles, saying on one hand that the federal government, and the CDC, have the authority to issue "free pratique", and to inspect and detain any vessel wishing to enter US waters, but then strikes down the CSO, and makes any further requirements from the CDC, even on the grounds of "public health" to be "non-binding".  Which is it, your honor?  It sounds to me like he feels some terms of the CSO are unreasonable, but doesn't want to get into the weeds and say which ones.  This, IMHO is grounds for appeal.

 

He also says that the requirements for testing labs and such on the ships are "burdensome", but I wonder what his price tag is on burdensome, since the cruise lines have been building ships and buying specialty equipment for nearly all aspects of the hotel service onboard, in order to meet the CDC's VSP, for decades.  From what I read in the ruling, the judge feels that this could also go by the wayside, and all oversight of international transportation falls to the states, despite the Commerce Clause of the Constitution.

[vjmatty]

6 hours ago, ONECRUISER said:

Some Ports, Possible early on. All, Nope. Have Family flown into some already and their only Requirement a Month+ ago was CV test, and the Hotel Paid for them. No Vaccine requirement to enter. As I've said since last year longer takes for Cruises to start, lower cases, Closer to Herd Immunity and less Cruise restrictions. Masking, Distancing, Testing and even a Vaccine Requirement will all end at some point. Just as it has on land in last few weeks. Dominos will continue to fall. Been in Mall, Pharmacy, Walmart, Restaurant, Concert and Full Capacity Ball game last week and half, no restrictions. Only place had to Mask up was at Mother's Dr Appt.... Oh and I am Fully Vax

I didn’t mean to suggest all ports currently require a vaccine, I said those passengers won’t be able to disembark in all ports that are requiring a vaccine, whichever they may be at a given time. . 

[vjmatty]

6 hours ago, ONECRUISER said:

Nope, was passed by Legislators and signed into Law

I thought it was me, but I don’t think you’re reading my posts very carefully…. I said BACK WHEN it was just an executive order. 

[firefly333]

1 hour ago, vjmatty said:

I didn’t mean to suggest all ports currently require a vaccine, I said those passengers won’t be able to disembark in all ports that are requiring a vaccine, whichever they may be at a given time. . 

And you say you have no idea if any ports we go to require a vaccine. Earlier you said this means that ports will strengthen their protocols because of this ruling, which you have no way of knowing.