A question for those of you who've just lost the $100 loyalty benefit.

[LACruiser88]

2 hours ago, mellon1 said:

Our friends have been trying to get us to switch to Celebrity for years. 

We also cruise on Celebrity and their cruises are much more expensive than Princess.  You get what you pay for...

[nocl]

9 hours ago, caribill said:

 

I'm pretty sure that the credit card OBC is paid by Princess, so the bank is not to blame for the increase in cost.

Actually credit cards pay the company. So the money for the OBC would be determined by the contract between the CC company and the cruise line.

 

So it would be either the credit card company or both.

[Steelers36]

13 hours ago, getting older slowly said:

Just to put a figure on Fare vs On Board Spend...  our OBS average is between 15-20% of fare

 

How does this compare to others  ??

Interesting survey question.  Hope more will respond as curious, but then how many really have a good idea of that percentage?

 

I am going to admit that we typically have a low on-board spend going into Princess' pockets. 

1. For certain, if sailing from FL/PE (our most frequent departure port), I board with our own wine.  So, they get a few bucks in corkage fee.  But most of the spend goes to Total Wine.
2. We do about 95 - 100% own tours, so no revenue to Princess there, although we have had significant spend ratio to the cruise fare at times (such as our 2018 S.A. voyage). 
3. In the casino, I mostly play at the poker table so, if I lose, most of it is going to the other players at the table, although Princess does rake off an amount from each pot.  I do enter the BJ tournaments, but have not yet won one.
4. Crew Incentive spend and any additional grats do not go into Princess' pocket.
5. We order very few bar drinks and coffee.
6. We do not purchase photos (for a long time now).
7. Besides any tours, when we are in port, we may spend to go to a beach, have lunch, etc.
8. We do buy internet service (voyage package with a discount in the past and will do so again).

So, we do spend money beyond the cruise fare, but admittedly, most of it doesn't go to Princess' bottom line.

 

I am not doing an analysis of past data, but here are a couple of numbers for our planned Fall 2022 voyages in Europe (tend to be higher cruise cost per day than Caribbean sector).  These were booked with Saver Fare.  We are Elite and will get a total of four mini-bar setups.  Expect a significant spend on private, self-booked, small-group tours.

 

25 Nights B2B2B

Net cruise cost to us per day per person = ~$163/pp/d  (net includes Crew Incentive, less all OBC)

Estimated average spend per day per person on board (Princess revenue) = ~$6/pp/d   (I rounded up a bit to cover doing some self-serve laundry).  Add $X in casino on to that for one person.

 

14 Nights

Net cruise cost to us per day per person = ~$199/pp/d  (net includes Crew Incentive, less all OBC)

Estimated average spend per day per person on board (Princess revenue) = ~$6/pp/d   (I included a bit to cover doing some self-serve laundry).  Add $Y in casino on to that for one person.

 

Both the above per day spends pp could be a bit higher, depending on what the internet pricing becomes in future, but I based it on previous pricing scheme with new 50% discount.

A generous ratio might see us at the 5% spend level, but certainly nowhere near 10%.  Not bragging, nor proud, etc.  Just what our situation is and potentially reflects a repeat customer who knows the wine values and is comfortable booking own land tours.

 

[nocl]

11 minutes ago, LACruiser88 said:

We also cruise on Celebrity and their cruises are much more expensive than Princess.  You get what you pay for...

Those that are driven to change by the loss of a 100 to 150 in benefits will find that out when they price other lines and realize that the price and benefits are not any better elsewhere.

[voljeep]

4 minutes ago, nocl said:

Those that are driven to change by the loss of a 100 to 150 in benefits will find that out when they price other lines and realize that the price and benefits are not any better elsewhere.

how does 'ship passenger demographics' come into the equation when considering changing cruise lines ?

[Steelers36]

11 minutes ago, voljeep said:

how does 'ship passenger demographics' come into the equation when considering changing cruise lines ?

It does for us.  Not interested in party ships or tons of kids.  Nothing wrong with kids, but prefer a more balanced towards adult atmosphere.  I am not up on HAL demographics these days, but we used to think of them as full of mostly an older generational group than us. 

[2 cruises a year]

22 minutes ago, nocl said:

Those that are driven to change by the loss of a 100 to 150 in benefits will find that out when they price other lines and realize that the price and benefits are not any better elsewhere.

I agree completely.  Loyalty that can be lost over $100 is not loyalty, it is prostitution.  Sorry to be so blunt, but this thread has gone off the rails.

[mellon1]

1 hour ago, LACruiser88 said:

We also cruise on Celebrity and their cruises are much more expensive than Princess.  You get what you pay for...

They told us they stayed in a suite, got the area only for suite....aka sanctuary....plus better food and more perks.  That is why they keep telling us to look at them.  Truly never did before but I think we may cancel 2023 cruise as it is $6+ more.   So sad we were ready to begin more cruising...but I don't know...  Anyone feel like us.  Ready to spend time on the ship for multiple cruises and tooo expensive to do...plus they are taking away all our OBC.  I am stressed and think we will cancel 2023, it was so much more expensive and we are getting nothing extra to make us feel good.  I am so sad

[nocl]

1 hour ago, voljeep said:

how does 'ship passenger demographics' come into the equation when considering changing cruise lines ?

I am using the term with the population being cruise ship passengers and the data set relating to that population and groups including loyalty status, on board spending, etc.  

 

Based upon the definition

statistical data relating to the population and particular groups within it.

 

[nocl]

10 hours ago, cr8tiv1 said:

Throwing in a monkey wrench.

 

I am one that used to buy high end jewelry from Facets before EFFY took over.  Now I don't, never liked their production line.  So I spend less on the ship.  BUT....I do leave my steward and servers more than the allotted gratuities, thereby "helping" Princess pay their crew more.  This practice will not end just because they took away my loyalty credits.  Just saying....

 

Any OBC was always something to be surprised by and excited about.  Loyalty OBC was special.  Where's the fun?  Where's the "Come back new"?  Where's the joy of cruising?  I am awaiting my next cruise and hope that my disappointment in Princess wanes before I get on the Grand so that I can truly have a memorable cruise.

In the case of Effy which is my opinion should be called iffy when it comes to the quality and value of their product, I believe that the pay the cruise line for the space.  So even if they sell nothing the cruise line gets paid, but they also might get a percentage in addition to the base payment.

[nocl]

1 hour ago, Steelers36 said:

Interesting survey question.  Hope more will respond as curious, but then how many really have a good idea of that percentage?

 

I am going to admit that we typically have a low on-board spend going into Princess' pockets. 

1. For certain, if sailing from FL/PE (our most frequent departure port), I board with our own wine.  So, they get a few bucks in corkage fee.  But most of the spend goes to Total Wine.
2. We do about 95 - 100% own tours, so no revenue to Princess there, although we have had significant spend ratio to the cruise fare at times (such as our 2018 S.A. voyage). 
3. In the casino, I mostly play at the poker table so, if I lose, most of it is going to the other players at the table, although Princess does rake off an amount from each pot.  I do enter the BJ tournaments, but have not yet won one.
4. Crew Incentive spend and any additional grats do not go into Princess' pocket.
5. We order very few bar drinks and coffee.
6. We do not purchase photos (for a long time now).
7. Besides any tours, when we are in port, we may spend to go to a beach, have lunch, etc.
8. We do buy internet service (voyage package with a discount in the past and will do so again).

So, we do spend money beyond the cruise fare, but admittedly, most of it doesn't go to Princess' bottom line.

 

I am not doing an analysis of past data, but here are a couple of numbers for our planned Fall 2022 voyages in Europe (tend to be higher cruise cost per day than Caribbean sector).  These were booked with Saver Fare.  We are Elite and will get a total of four mini-bar setups.  Expect a significant spend on private, self-booked, small-group tours.

 

25 Nights B2B2B

Net cruise cost to us per day per person = ~$163/pp/d  (net includes Crew Incentive, less all OBC)

Estimated average spend per day per person on board (Princess revenue) = ~$6/pp/d   (I rounded up a bit to cover doing some self-serve laundry).  Add $X in casino on to that for one person.

 

14 Nights

Net cruise cost to us per day per person = ~$199/pp/d  (net includes Crew Incentive, less all OBC)

Estimated average spend per day per person on board (Princess revenue) = ~$6/pp/d   (I included a bit to cover doing some self-serve laundry).  Add $Y in casino on to that for one person.

 

Both the above per day spends pp could be a bit higher, depending on what the internet pricing becomes in future, but I based it on previous pricing scheme with new 50% discount.

A generous ratio might see us at the 5% spend level, but certainly nowhere near 10%.  Not bragging, nor proud, etc.  Just what our situation is and potentially reflects a repeat customer who knows the wine values and is comfortable booking own land tours.

 

In our case we do take Princess excursions in some ports, but they are mostly paid for with OBC. (Veterans, Shareholder,  FCD ,etc).  We do drink coffee but that is covered by converting the minibar to coffee plans.  Other than that maybe a soft drink or two each day with my wife having 1 glass of wine each day.  I expect that our total on board spend is less than 5% of cruise fare.  I expect that we would be in the group that the cruise line would not miss if we left, but on the other hand we also recognize a good deal when we see it.

 

We sail around 100 days each year.  Probably a little more than half on Princess, then HAL, with an occasional cruise on Celebrity and Royal (usually with grandkids).  Celebrity was originally our favorite and with the fare structures, ship within a ship structure, fairly limited route selection, hard to get shareholder OBC, we have mostly shifted away from them.  Our use of Princess has dropped in the last couple of years as we have increased our use of HAL with some of their changes (Lincoln Center, Tamarind restaurant - one of the few we actually find worth the upcharge.) 

[nocl]

1 hour ago, Steelers36 said:

It does for us.  Not interested in party ships or tons of kids.  Nothing wrong with kids, but prefer a more balanced towards adult atmosphere.  I am not up on HAL demographics these days, but we used to think of them as full of mostly an older generational group than us. 

HAL has been changing recently with the music venues and the newer ships.  They seem to be attracting a somewhat younger group on their shorter cruises.  One of the reason HALS demographics tend to tilt to an older population is because they have had the longest average cruise lengths out of the mass market cruise lines and offer some pretty unique longer cruises (think 40+ days) like one that leaves from the US and goes all around the south pacific and back to the US.  Not one for any still working.

 

Of course the long time cruises on HAL tend to hate the changes that are starting to bring in a younger passenger set.

 

One thing about cruise lines they a several if one no longer meets your needs try another, but they will all change.

[konatyme]

Even though we have a cruise scheduled for 2022 and are Platinum, we didn't get any email regarding the changes to loyalty level perks.

[nocl]

1 minute ago, CarelessAndConfused said:

 

I'm very curious about your comment here.  Is the Lincoln Center all that?  Princess is one of the few lines that you can rely on for multiple sessions of classical music almost everyday, which is it's one but very critical appeal for me.  How would you compare the two in regards to the classic music experience?

We like classical music so we thoroughly enjoy the programs that are put on there (though I must confess during longer cruises they tend to be a bit repetitive since they are set, well rehearsed shows, not off the cuff). 

 

That is one of the issues, over the last couple of years the former classical trios have dropped to two violinists and now sometimes one violinist accompanied by a piano. Though they have had violinists perform on the main theater on occasion. So while we enjoy the classical music on Princess, it is becoming a bit less and less.

 

In  Lincoln Center it as it usually a violin, viola, cello, and piano, with the players affiliated with the Lincoln Center in New York.  They usually play a couple of hour long shows most days in a venue specific for them (though the shows for that day are the same).

[travlngar]

On 7/2/2021 at 8:18 AM, RRFan said:

Yes but it was 21-31=$25/ cabin; 32-41=$50; 42-51=$75: 52+=$100. All per cabin, not per person. It was never listed as a loyalty benefit, but was always given onboard. Very nice benefit lost. 

When we finally reached the Loyalty benefit on our 21st credit both my wife and I received the $25 OBC. Her Captain Circle # is listed under her maiden last name. That was how Princess determined to distribute the benefit, we didn't ask neither decline it. I still always appreciate the Military OBC from PCL along with the stackable credit of shareholder benefit and FCC. On occasion our TA is able to add OBC for a group sailing as well. 

[Tedferg]

27 minutes ago, konatyme said:

Even though we have a cruise scheduled for 2022 and are Platinum, we didn't get any email regarding the changes to loyalty level perks.

I do not get emails either, I did notice on my Profile Info I had email checked as 'No' - just changed that.

[Waynetor]

One point re the low spend/frequent vs he high spend/very occasional cruiser is marketing cost.

 

All our vacations are cruises.  We are booked non stop on Princess De 5/21 to Ap 27/22 and another 75 nights for winter of 22/23.  Princess has not spent a penny sending us any mail for several years or reached out in any other way. I get all my new booking info on CC.

 

The occasional cruiser needs to not only be convinced to cruise vs other vacation options, they need to be convinced to go on Princess.   Princess like other lines spend huge $$ on marketing - while booking many cruises, I'm saving them that spend. My low spend is off set by reduced marketing to fill cabins. 

 

They are basically now saying we don't appreciate your multi-booking, we would rather go searching for someone else to fill those 200+ days 

[PescadoAmarillo]

25 minutes ago, Waynetor said:

They are basically now saying we don't appreciate your multi-booking, we would rather go searching for someone else to fill those 200+ days 

There were many other passengers that we’ve met over the years who consistently spent $25000 and much more every year with Princess, which, for us, was more than we’ve spent with any other business in our lives except with our home builder. Not every cruise had to be perfect…they had our loyalty. You’re right in that they didn’t need to spend anything to market to us; in fact, some of us actually marketed for Princess in the form of a blog (or so I’ve heard. 😏)

 

And now they’re offering a 10% bonus on gift card purchases at the same time they are removing a $100 OBC on a cruise that costs in the thousands for their most traveled guests. It makes no sense. 
 

We feel most fortunate that we’ve cruised when we did. We were already going to be cutting back…this just speeds up our slowing down. 
 

[vjmatty]

10 hours ago, 2 cruises a year said:

I agree completely.  Loyalty that can be lost over $100 is not loyalty, it is prostitution.  Sorry to be so blunt, but this thread has gone off the rails.

Holy hyperbole Batman I think you’ve gone off the rails with it lol. It’s not prostitution to start considering  other options when increased fares combined with fewer returns…i.e. paying more for less…. starts to devalue your experience. That word doesn’t mean what you think it means. 😉

[2 cruises a year]

1 minute ago, vjmatty said:

Holy hyperbole Batman I think you’ve gone off the rails with it lol. It’s not prostitution to start considering  other options when increased fares combined with fewer returns…i.e. paying more for less…. starts to devalue your experience. That word doesn’t mean what you think it means. 😉

 

Thanks for the laugh.  But if Princess doesn't give me $100 I'll take my body elsewhere.  How many times can you find that in some form or another in the last seven pages. 😉  I'll quit now before I get into trouble.  😁

[vjmatty]

59 minutes ago, Waynetor said:

One point re the low spend/frequent vs he high spend/very occasional cruiser is marketing cost.

 

All our vacations are cruises.  We are booked non stop on Princess De 5/21 to Ap 27/22 and another 75 nights for winter of 22/23.  Princess has not spent a penny sending us any mail for several years or reached out in any other way. I get all my new booking info on CC.

 

The occasional cruiser needs to not only be convinced to cruise vs other vacation options, they need to be convinced to go on Princess.   Princess like other lines spend huge $$ on marketing - while booking many cruises, I'm saving them that spend. My low spend is off set by reduced marketing to fill cabins. 

 

They are basically now saying we don't appreciate your multi-booking, we would rather go searching for someone else to fill those 200+ days 

That’s a consideration also….. repeat customers cost little in advertising and are easy sells with almost no competition 

[nocl]

29 minutes ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

There were many other passengers that we’ve met over the years who consistently spent $25000 and much more every year with Princess, which, for us, was more than we’ve spent with any other business in our lives except with our home builder. Not every cruise had to be perfect…they had our loyalty. You’re right in that they didn’t need to spend anything to market to us; in fact, some of us actually marketed for Princess in the form of a blog (or so I’ve heard. 😏)

 

And now they’re offering a 10% bonus on gift card purchases at the same time they are removing a $100 OBC on a cruise that costs in the thousands for their most traveled guests. It makes no sense. 
 

We feel most fortunate that we’ve cruised when we did. We were already going to be cutting back…this just speeds up our slowing down. 
 

A couple of reasons why it might:

 

1. The gift card promotion is temporary, the OBC was a permanent and growing cost until terminated

 

2. The gift card offer is open to everyone, the OBC to a limited subset

 

3. Cruise lines have to manage their passenger base.  If it is getting too top heavy (i.e. long term mostly older cruisers) they just might to take action that might result in alienating some of them, but in return potentially attract new blood so to speak.  HAL was a classic example of long term dedicated cruisers, but in return it developed the reputation as a cruise line for not only the retired, but those well past retirement. Of course they cannot do any thing that discriminates by age.  But if they feel that they have enough elite cruisers, they certainly can reduce the benefits and potentially have some turn over. HAL is starting to be successful in lowering their average age, at least on their shorter cruises, but the action they are taking to do so is certainly alienating some of their long term passengers as well.

 

We do not know their motivation as far as the loyalty OBC goes, it could be to save money, or for other reasons.  It is unlikely that someone just woke up one morning and thought lets get rid of the loyalty OBC.  I do not recall any other cruise line having a similar benefit.

 

Keep in mind companies appreciate their customers as a group but as an individual not so much.

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by nocl

[vjmatty]

5 minutes ago, 2 cruises a year said:

 

Thanks for the laugh.  But if Princess doesn't give me $100 I'll take my body elsewhere.  How many times can you find that in some form or another in the last seven pages. 😉  I'll quit now before I get into trouble.  😁

No, I get it and I hate the “Goodbye cruel Princess” posts too… but at the same time if Princess is going to chip away multiple benefits and start losing its competitive advantage over other lines I can’t blame people for looking elsewhere if they find a better value.

[vjmatty]

4 minutes ago, nocl said:

A couple of reasons why it might:

 

1. The gift card promotion is temporary, the OBC was a permanent and growing cost until terminated

 

2. The gift card offer is open to everyone, the OBC to a limited subset

 

3. Cruise lines have to manage their passenger base.  If it is getting too top heavy (i.e. long term mostly older cruisers) they just might to take action that might result in alienating some of them, but in return potentially attract new blood so to speak.  HAL was a classic example of long term dedicated cruisers, but in return it developed the reputation as a cruise line for not only the retired, but those well past retirement. Of course they cannot do any thing that discriminates by age.  But if they feel that they have enough elite cruises, they certainly can reduce the benefits and potentially have some turn over. HAL is starting to be successful in lowering their average age, at least on their shorter cruises, but the action they are taking to do so is certainly alienating some of their long term passengers as well.

 

We do not know their motivation as far as the loyalty OBC goes, it could be to save money, or for other reasons.  It is unlikely that someone just woke up one morning and thought lets get rid of the loyalty OBC.  I do not recall any other cruise line having a similar benefit.

 

 

 

Boy it sure seems like a bad idea though, considering that people are living longer, to start alienating older cruisers in favor of younger ones. Yeah it’s morbid to think about but it is what it is. 

[AnyMajorCruiseDude]

Most of us will continue to cruise with Princess, and explore other lines more often.  They are just trying to tweak their model, and some may actually switch.  That's probably what they want.  I welcome the changes as we have become tired of those that expect everything for free.