New Princess Sphere class ships?

[Guest ldtr]

10 hours ago, caribill said:

 

 

Much depends on why you cruise. Is the ship the destination or is the itinerary the most important factor?

 

Displacement of the Seas type ships are usually the destination. But:

o They are limited in what ports can accommodate them, so the itineraries are not as varied as what is possible on smaller ships.

o They usually are in ports at the same time as other similar size ships. This makes for overcrowded ports, often with the number of cruise ship passengers outnumbering the local population.

 

Not everyone is the same, but we cruise for the itinerary, preferring to visit places we have never been at before or places where we want to explore the area more than we did on past visits. We do not mind cruising on older ships without all the modern wow factor venues if we can experience places and sites we have not been to before. (But we do enjoy the larger balconies and the wider Promenade deck on those older ships.)

 

A cruise which just goes to St. Thomas, St. Maarten and an overcrowded private island is not our cup of tea. We also have no need to visit "popular" ports such as Cozumel and Belize City ever again.

 

As one example of a Princess itinerary we liked was one on the Pacific Princess which was cancelled due to the sale of the ship & the pandemic. You will not see the following ports on many (any?) of the current Princess itineraries. A partial list of the ports on this cancelled cruise that started in Sydney, Australia and ended in Yokohama, Japan included 

o Townsville, Australia

o Alotau, Papa New Guinea

o Manila. Phillppines

o Hualien, Taiwan

o Ishigaki, Japan

o Kagoshima, Japan

 

That is just one example of the many unique itineraries that Princess used to offer when they had ships with less than 2000 passengers.

 

Problem is with price competition in the market main stream cruise lines (princess, HAL, Celebrity, P&O, Royal, NCL are all pretty much driven to larger ships with each new build.

 

HAL and Celebrity are doing their best to fight the trend and at least stay a little constant, but they too are either going to have to be able to attract customers at a higher price point in the future or move in the same direction.

 

As a result the entire cruise line experience is becoming one of less variety and more overcrowding at the ports they can access, with some of the more ports moving to limit crowds themselves, since the cruise lines will not do it.

[JimmyVWine]

11 hours ago, scottca075 said:

 

Uh no, just no.

 

Silversea and Regent are chains too. They do not have Michelin level food.

 

Azzam and Eclipse are Daniel and Per Se.

Thomas Keller and Daniel Boulud have way more restaurants under management than Azzam and Eclipse have ships.  Capitol Grille is quite simply a chain of "pretty decent" restaurants in exactly the same way that Princess is a chain of "pretty decent" ships.  By no stretch is Princess "the Outback of the cruise industry" as you suggested earlier.    

[Guest ldtr]

13 minutes ago, cruisingrob21 said:

Ah I see your point now.

 

The irony is I'm going to try a short X coastal cruise next spring on the Solstice to see if they are doing things better than PCL.  Not a fan of the Royal class ships, but I'm sure there are negatives to X as well.  Surprisingly, our HAL alaska cruise this year on the Eurodam was very similar past experiences on PCL grand class ships to Alaska.  We appreciated the more uptempo evening activities than HAL provided in the past, and the climate controlled top deck venues were essential on a rainy july alaska cruise (somewhat rare) - those being the crows nest/Explorations central and the Tamarind Bar.

With Celebrity a portion of the experience depends upon what cabin class you book.  Different cabin classes get different dining experiences and other benefits.   We reduced our use of Celebrity as they moved more into the ship within a ship approach.

[vjmatty]

34 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

A big advantage of the Grand/Crown class ships in this matter is that the entire deck is covered, so you can walk around the Promenade deck even if the weather is not perfect.

 

Love the promenade on those ships..... I don't know why people complain about the few steps at the bow, what is wrong with a little more exercise? 

[KeepCalmBearOn]

1 minute ago, JimmyVWine said:

Thomas Keller and Daniel Boulud have way more restaurants under management than Azzam and Eclipse have ships.  Capitol Grille is quite simply a chain of "pretty decent" restaurants in exactly the same way that Princess is a chain of "pretty decent" ships.  By no stretch is Princess "the Outback of the cruise industry" as you suggested earlier.    

 

Sounds like you are acknowledging that Daniel and Per Se are chain restaurants.

 

I didn't suggest Princess was the Outback of the cruise industry, I suggested that you want Outback prices for Capital Grille quality.

[vjmatty]

4 minutes ago, ldtr said:

As a result the entire cruise line experience is becoming one of less variety and more overcrowding at the ports they can access, with some of the more ports moving to limit crowds themselves, since the cruise lines will not do it.

 

Exactly what has happened with Venice.... even the "smaller" (by today's standards) Vista style ships have been excluded.

[JimmyVWine]

1 minute ago, scottca075 said:

Sounds like you are acknowledging that Daniel and Per Se are chain restaurants.

???  I never said otherwise.  I suggested that Seabourn (a chain) compared to Per Se (one of many Keller restaurants.)  And no, I do not expect CG at Outback prices.  If I wanted Outback prices, I would level down to a lower level of cruise line. 

[Guest ldtr]

Just now, vjmatty said:

 

Exactly what has happened with Venice.... even the "smaller" (by today's standards) Vista style ships have been excluded.

Barcelona, Dubrovnik, Venice, Bar Harbor, Bora Bora and French Polynesia, Key West are all examples of ports that have taken steps to limit cruise ship passengers.  Even Santorini is considering it.  

[KeepCalmBearOn]

7 minutes ago, ldtr said:

As a result the entire cruise line experience is becoming one of less variety and more overcrowding at the ports they can access, with some of the more ports moving to limit crowds themselves, since the cruise lines will not do it.

 

No the cruise industry is segmenting, just like the hotel industry has. Marriott has hotels from Four Points to the Ritz Carlton. All the other major chains have similar tiers.

 

Princess is a tier from Carnival Corp, plc with tiers that range from Carnival Cruises to Seabourn. Royal Caribbean Group has its tiers as does Norwegian Cruise Lines Holding. It is the mid tier that Princess is in and that it is competing with.

[drowelf]

21 hours ago, MissP22 said:

I don't think you'll find many people looking for the smallest luxury ship to sail on these days. It's a rare breed.

 

10 hours ago, caribill said:

 

 

Much depends on why you cruise. Is the ship the destination or is the itinerary the most important factor?

 

Displacement of the Seas type ships are usually the destination. But:

o They are limited in what ports can accommodate them, so the itineraries are not as varied as what is possible on smaller ships.

o They usually are in ports at the same time as other similar size ships. This makes for overcrowded ports, often with the number of cruise ship passengers outnumbering the local population.

 

Not everyone is the same, but we cruise for the itinerary, preferring to visit places we have never been at before or places where we want to explore the area more than we did on past visits. We do not mind cruising on older ships without all the modern wow factor venues if we can experience places and sites we have not been to before. (But we do enjoy the larger balconies and the wider Promenade deck on those older ships.)

 

A cruise which just goes to St. Thomas, St. Maarten and an overcrowded private island is not our cup of tea. We also have no need to visit "popular" ports such as Cozumel and Belize City ever again.

 

As one example of a Princess itinerary we liked was one on the Pacific Princess which was cancelled due to the sale of the ship & the pandemic. You will not see the following ports on many (any?) of the current Princess itineraries. A partial list of the ports on this cancelled cruise that started in Sydney, Australia and ended in Yokohama, Japan included 

o Townsville, Australia

o Alotau, Papa New Guinea

o Manila. Phillppines

o Hualien, Taiwan

o Ishigaki, Japan

o Kagoshima, Japan

 

That is just one example of the many unique itineraries that Princess used to offer when they had ships with less than 2000 passengers.

 

Bingo! We like smaller ships because they can get into the smaller ports. On our last small ship cruise on the HALs Prinsendam, we were docked right in the center of Bordeaux. Not going to see that on any mainstream ship these days. We sail mainly for the itineraries. Don't do TAs and while we do want to entertainment on Sea Days, the ship is not the destination for us and never will be.

[theaviationbeat]

Link to the facebook page that will be live-streaming the new ship unveiling at 5:45pm EST: https://www.facebook.com/events/970394354352465/?acontext={"ref"%3A"52"%2C"action_history"%3A"[{\"surface\"%3A\"share_link\"%2C\"mechanism\"%3A\"share_link\"%2C\"extra_data\"%3A{\"invite_link_id\"%3A3421916491370644}}]"}

Edited September 15, 2022 by theaviationbeat

[Guest ldtr]

2 minutes ago, scottca075 said:

 

No the cruise industry is segmenting, just like the hotel industry has. Marriott has hotels from Four Points to the Ritz Carlton. All the other major chains have similar tiers.

 

Princess is a tier from Carnival Corp, plc with tiers that range from Carnival Cruises to Seabourn. Royal Caribbean Group has its tiers as does Norwegian Cruise Lines Holding. It is the mid tier that Princess is in and that it is competing with.

I listed in my post the mainstream section of the cruise industry that I was applying my comments to.    The ones that I listed  Princess, P&O, Celebrity, Royal, HAL, NCL.  Those that are most price competitive and due to that competition forced to maximize the efficiency of their operational costs.

 

Sure the small ship premium, and luxury segments are fragmenting all over the place, but we are in a discussion stream for Princess and their new ships, not one of the lines in another class.

 

Carnival is the least stratified with pretty much only Seabourn outside of the mainstream market (over 95% of CCLs revenue is firmly in the mainstream market).  Even Cunard, while it has some difference, is still in the economic of the mainstream lines and its ship sizes trending higher, even though its on board dress code remains.

 

RCL has also moved more to the mainstream side with it sale of Azamara.

 

If one looks at the total volume of the cruise industry far more are carried on the mainstream lines I mentioned (as well as MSC which I failed to mention, along with TUA, Costa and several other primarily European lines that are also in the middle of the mainstream price competition).

 

For all of the things going on with the small ship premium and luxury segments the total number of passengers on all of those lines is a pretty small segment of the entire cruise industry.

 

For example Seabourn is .2%  passengers, Silversea is .4% , Oceania and Regent are .8%

 

The rest of CCL is 41.8%, Royal and Celebrity 23%,  NCL 8.6%,  MSC 10.2%

 

The entire rest of the industry including the independent EU cruise lines (several of which fall into the mainstream area. total  14.7 percent.

 

So when it comes to overall industry trends it is clearly the mainstream lines that have and continue to have the lions share of the passengers and they are driving the trend to larger ships, resulting is less variety in routes and massive over crowding of ports.

 

Note Data is from cruise market watch.

 

 

[MissP22]

1 hour ago, richsea said:

As it is for us. But I still don’t need the waterslides, bumper cars, skating rinks, etc. Just call me old!

I don't particularly care for the types of families that it attracts. 

[PescadoAmarillo]

4 hours ago, Fairsky84 said:

I really hope they name the ship PACIFIC PRINCESS. (And they should name the 2nd Sphere-class ship ATLANTIC PRINCESS.)

I’m sure you’re right, but I would prefer them to retire the name Pacific Princess. Kind of like numbers in sports. Don’t sully the name by bestowing it on the next, even larger, even more removed from the sea ships. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by PescadoAmarillo

[LawDog61]

I understand the economic attraction to the company for bigger and bigger ships, but I have to wonder, are they building what may eventually become stranded assets ?

Some ports have already banned large cruise ships. Portland has a ballot measure coming for a ban. Can Seattle be far behind?

And can LNG save the cruise industry from “Carbon Shaming ?  I think Norway has already banned all ICE engined vessels from cruising the fiords.

[richsea]

23 minutes ago, MissP22 said:

I don't particularly care for the types of families that it attracts. 

The only time we cruise on ships with those attractions, RCCL or NCL, it’s with our kids/grandkids. Normally, we cruise in seasons where there are less families. Families are families; haven’t noticed the types.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Anyone have a link for the YouTube stream?  I don’t use Facebook (or any other social media platform)

[kjf18109]

 

[sonomaphil]

My guess is Sun Princess. 

[LACruiser88]

4 minutes ago, sonomaphil said:

My guess is Sun Princess. 

Should we start a pool on the new name?

[cruisingrob21]

1 hour ago, LawDog61 said:

Some ports have already banned large cruise ships. Portland has a ballot measure coming for a ban. Can Seattle be far behind?

And can LNG save the cruise industry from “Carbon Shaming ?  I think Norway has already banned all ICE engined vessels from cruising the fiords.

I assume you mean Portland ME?  Portland OR has no cruise facilities (well, for anything larger than maybe 40,000 gt as "The World" docked in downtown Portland OR several years back).  But to your point, I think it's a question of money and benefit.  Seattle could ban large ships, but its unlikely as its the only "game" in town for Alaska cruises that when it comes to the size parameter of ships.  The Lionsgate Bridge in Vancouver already places some of the larger Princess ships on odd sailing schedules due to the clearances under the bridge and tides.  Although there has been discussion of a cruise terminal somewhere near YVR, its still years away at best.  Seattle doesnt have that physical constraint, but the will of both city's has restricted large outdoor shipboard sailaway parties.

 

I think its more likely that Alaskan cities may restrict the size of some vessels in the future.  Although their harbors have few constraints owning to few bridges and natural, deep channels, the towns clearly get overwhelmed with a few large ships, and just one or two very large ships will magnify that issue. 

 

In North America these large ships will likely be limited to the Caribbean and perhaps Mexico at some point as they both really benefit from the income.  I'd be curious to know the extents of financial damage caused by the pandemic in some of the poorer Caribbean islands - I'd imagine its huge since one or two ships can bring more people to an island in a day than the existing hotel infrastructure on that island could in a week.

 

I do think that there will be a reconning eventually with ship sizes, but perhaps an attribute that is not expected.  For example, we are seeing the "tip" of the iceberg right now with staffing issues - getting enough staff members on a very large ship is proving to be a limiting factor for capacity at best (many ships weren't sailing full, somewhat due to covid restrictions, but I'd guess somewhat due to staff limitations), and limiting safe operation at worse (ie Diamond Princess recently, some P&O UK sailings).

[c-boy]

The  "Universal Princess"   just rolls of the tongue 

 

            

[AtlantaCruiser72]

@kjf18109 THANK YOU !!!

[Guest ldtr]

5 minutes ago, LACruiser88 said:

Should we start a pool on the new name?

Since it is larger how about Rotund Princess

[AtlantaCruiser72]

My bets are on Pacific or Sun as well. That said three of the 4 newest ships have not used previous ship names.