Grand Cayman off itinerary FINALLY!

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, D C said:

They've been replacing Key West with Nassau on other itineraries AND they've been replacing Grand Cayman with Nassau.  I sure hope we don't double-dip Nassau!

Knowing how popular Nassau is, perhaps they'll make it an overnighter for you! 😇

[CalTexCruiser]

45 minutes ago, kearney said:

I wonder why Key West is cancelled... I know GC had concerns about Covid..but I thought Fl legislature over ruled Key West ban...  I wonder if they are reducing the number of ships going there to help satisfy residents...vs total removal from the schedule.

 

In a nutshell, the Key West authorities are actively trying to get around the state overrule, so the situation is in flux.

[CalTexCruiser]

deleted

Edited October 13, 2021 by CalTexCruiser

[D C]

3 hours ago, kearney said:

I wonder why Key West is cancelled... I know GC had concerns about Covid..but I thought Fl legislature over ruled Key West ban...  I wonder if they are reducing the number of ships going there to help satisfy residents...vs total removal from the schedule.

Because the mayor and commissioners have allegedly been threatening the cruise lines that they won't approve any CDC-requested forms unless the cruise lines adhere to the now-irrelevant referendum from last November. 

 

This is a letter submitted to the Key West City Council and attached to their meeting agenda of 05-Oct.  It's written by the CEO of Caribe Nautical which provides port services in Key West.   If the allegations in the letter are true, the commissioners and mayor are acting extralegally against the cruise lines, and it probably won't end well for them, but it's doubtful that it will be sorted out for any short-term upcoming sailings.  

keywest.legistar.com/gateway.aspx?M=F&ID=f0895f91-b6ea-4c85-8abf-b3b4d727128f.pdf

Edited October 13, 2021 by D C

[kearney]

13 hours ago, D C said:

Because the mayor and commissioners have allegedly been threatening the cruise lines that they won't approve any CDC-requested forms unless the cruise lines adhere to the now-irrelevant referendum from last November. 

 

This is a letter submitted to the Key West City Council and attached to their meeting agenda of 05-Oct.  It's written by the CEO of Caribe Nautical which provides port services in Key West.   If the allegations in the letter are true, the commissioners and mayor are acting extralegally against the cruise lines, and it probably won't end well for them, but it's doubtful that it will be sorted out for any short-term upcoming sailings.  

keywest.legistar.com/gateway.aspx?M=F&ID=f0895f91-b6ea-4c85-8abf-b3b4d727128f.pdf

Wow, I had no idea... well all of this drama would explain why cruise lines are changing itineraries. Kinda glad I cancelled my Nov cruise to KW, GC and the ABCs... wondered at the time if it would become a mystery cruise... not sure what the status is for ABCs these days...

[canderson]

46 minutes ago, kearney said:

... not sure what the status is for ABCs these days...

Recent real time reports (e.g. Equinox) are that the ABC are all operational.

[D C]

1 hour ago, kearney said:

Wow, I had no idea... well all of this drama would explain why cruise lines are changing itineraries. Kinda glad I cancelled my Nov cruise to KW, GC and the ABCs... wondered at the time if it would become a mystery cruise... not sure what the status is for ABCs these days...

 

13 minutes ago, canderson said:

Recent real time reports (e.g. Equinox) are that the ABC are all operational.

Yup. My DS and DDIL are rather enjoying their honeymoon on a half-full Equinox in the ABCs right now.  Bonaire today after Aruba and Curacao the past 2 days. 

[Guppy99]

It's really unfortunate, imo, that Florida can not readily be replaced as points of embarkation for cruise lines. The politics puts all persons at risk for their safety (on land & sea).

[kearney]

3 hours ago, D C said:

 

Yup. My DS and DDIL are rather enjoying their honeymoon on a half-full Equinox in the ABCs right now.  Bonaire today after Aruba and Curacao the past 2 days. 

So..what is the current deal with the ABCs? at one point it looked like you couldn't go to Bonaire and last I heard you need a covid test..what 72 hours before Aruba... something like that. Frankly after I cancelled the August and November cruises... I stopped keeping track of current cruise covid events

[D C]

2 minutes ago, kearney said:

So..what is the current deal with the ABCs? at one point it looked like you couldn't go to Bonaire and last I heard you need a covid test..what 72 hours before Aruba... something like that. Frankly after I cancelled the August and November cruises... I stopped keeping track of current cruise covid events

They haven't said anything about a test other than the normal pre-cruise one.  They're pretty out of touch though, but I can find out when they get home in a few days.

[tallfir]

Would it be too harsh to say that Celebrity is guilty of FALSE ADVERTISING and out and out FRAUD? Celebrity's own website and travel agents that use online booking search engines are representing itineraries that claim to be offering Grand Cayman and Key West as destinations when they know for certain that those two destinations will not be visited. I guess you could always say; "buyer beware", but Celebrity has an obligation to make factual and truthful representations in advertising cruises for sale to the public. It is unacceptable to hide behind "politics, COVID protocals, and IT department backlogs" for not providing up to date information for their website and prospective customers.

[LGW59]

4 minutes ago, tallfir said:

Would it be too harsh to say that Celebrity is guilty of FALSE ADVERTISING and out and out FRAUD? Celebrity's own website and travel agents that use online booking search engines are representing itineraries that claim to be offering Grand Cayman and Key West as destinations when they know for certain that those two destinations will not be visited. I guess you could always say; "buyer beware", but Celebrity has an obligation to make factual and truthful representations in advertising cruises for sale to the public. It is unacceptable to hide behind "politics, COVID protocals, and IT department backlogs" for not providing up to date information for their website and prospective customers.

Another who apparently does not take the time to read T&C

[kelib]

On 10/13/2021 at 10:54 AM, CalTexCruiser said:

Grand Cayman still on our Jan 8 Apex itinerary

We got email notification that Grand Cayman was no go for our Jan 30 Edge cruise, but GC still shows up on the APP.  The week was adjusted to include Roatan on the itinerary.

 

[D C]

33 minutes ago, tallfir said:

Would it be too harsh to say that Celebrity is guilty of FALSE ADVERTISING and out and out FRAUD? Celebrity's own website and travel agents that use online booking search engines are representing itineraries that claim to be offering Grand Cayman and Key West as destinations when they know for certain that those two destinations will not be visited. I guess you could always say; "buyer beware", but Celebrity has an obligation to make factual and truthful representations in advertising cruises for sale to the public. It is unacceptable to hide behind "politics, COVID protocals, and IT department backlogs" for not providing up to date information for their website and prospective customers.

 

28 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Another who apparently does not take the time to read T&C

 

Actually, the point is valid despite the Terms & Conditions.  While they certainly reserve the right to change ports, there should be a reasonable expectation that the ports advertised for a cruise in November would be real potential stops.   Selling a November cruise to Grand Cayman on the Reflection, knowing full well that the port is closed, should raise eyebrows to some extent.  

[LGW59]

3 minutes ago, D C said:

 

 

Actually, the point is valid despite the Terms & Conditions.  While they certainly reserve the right to change ports, there should be a reasonable expectation that the ports advertised for a cruise in November would be real potential stops.   Selling a November cruise to Grand Cayman on the Reflection, knowing full well that the port is closed, should raise eyebrows to some extent.  

well perhaps the buyer should do their homework, quick Google search will tell if a port is open, and even if it is or is not, that is very fluid and can change, week by week, as attested by many here who are and have recently cruised.  In the pandemic, all bets are off and we all need to be flexible if we are going to jump on a ship.

[D C]

4 hours ago, LGW59 said:

well perhaps the buyer should do their homework, quick Google search will tell if a port is open, and even if it is or is not, that is very fluid and can change, week by week, as attested by many here who are and have recently cruised.  In the pandemic, all bets are off and we all need to be flexible if we are going to jump on a ship.

Nope. 

 

Grand Cayman is closed. I can find lots of schedules that show ship schedules for this month next month, and beyond. 

Key West is telling cruise ships to not come (possibly illegally) and I can find plenty of schedules that make it look like ships have been docking there. 

It is not for the consumer to have to have intimate knowledge as to whether or not the bill of goods they're being sold is legitimate or not. That's exactly why consumer protection laws exist. 

 

If I book a cruise advertise desirable ports which the cruise line has no intention of visiting, knowing they're going to substitute with less desirable ports or no ports at all, how is that NOT a bait and switch tactic? 

[BCHappyGal]

We are on the Apex in January and Grand Cayman is on the itinerary - I am awaiting my letter notifying me of a change...   not worried as going for the ship more than the ports... and we have visited Grand Cayment several times... Also in these challenging times I am heading out with a very OPEN mind and ready to be very flexible... hence I will go with ships tours rather than my normal private tours as that will make life much simpler...

[LGW59]

1 hour ago, D C said:

Nope. 

 

Grand Cayman is closed. I can find lots of schedules that show ship schedules for this month next month, and beyond. 

Key West is telling cruise ships to not come (possibly illegally) and I can find plenty of schedules that make it look like ships have been docking there. 

It is not for the consumer to have to have intimate knowledge as to whether or not the bill of goods they're being sold is legitimate or not. That's exactly why consumer protection laws exist. 

 

If I book a cruise advertise desirable ports which the cruise line has no intention of visiting, knowing they're going to substitute with less desirable ports or no ports at all, how is that NOT a bait and switch tactic? 

Perhaps less desirable to you but not to all.  Like a bridge over troubled waters, go with the flow 

[D C]

6 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Perhaps less desirable to you but not to all.  Like a bridge over troubled waters, go with the flow 

You do realise that there are actual consumer protection laws that addresses advertising one thing but selling another, right? The cruise lines are on thin ice by advertising what they know is not available. 

[LGW59]

16 minutes ago, D C said:

You do realise that there are actual consumer protection laws that addresses advertising one thing but selling another, right? The cruise lines are on thin ice by advertising what they know is not available. 

I do yes, and you do realize??? the cruise lines are dealing with unprecedented circumstances, sorry if one can’t stop at Grand Cayman or Nassau, or wherever it is what it is, don’t like it simply don’t book 

Edited October 16, 2021 by LGW59

[phoenix_dream]

The point here is not that we need to be flexible.  We all know and understand that.  The point here is also not that ports can't change and the contract says so.  The point here is that the cruise lines know for sure that they cannot sail to Grand Cayman, but they continue to advertise cruises going there.  Key West is a little more of a grey area, but Grand Cayman is a for sure no sail until at least late January.  If nothing else, they could add some disclaimer wording to the impacted cruises on their website indicating that Grand Cayman will not be available and they are working out details as to what will replace it, if anything.  So given all the above, I agree that it is in fact false advertising, at least at this point in time.

[Fouremco]

I could argue both sides of this issue, but the only point I'll make now is that the perspective of CC members is very different than that of the new or occasional cruiser who is totally oblivious to what is going on within the cruise industry. We read post after post after post about changing ports, changing protocols at ports, changing testing requirements, etc., etc., but the couple that booked their first cruise based on the advertised itinerary has no reason to believe that it might change. 

[DaKahuna]

Our November 4 sailing is still showing Key West and Grand Cayman.  Truthfully, it does not bother me at all that I know that cruise ships are sailing to either of those ports because I cruise to cruise and be on the ships and not because of the things not under the control of the cruise line.  So while Celebrity figures out what is going to replace those ports of call, I am just going to patiently wait until check in opens. 

[LGW59]

11 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

I could argue both sides of this issue, but the only point I'll make now is that the perspective of CC members is very different than that of the new or occasional cruiser who is totally oblivious to what is going on within the cruise industry. We read post after post after post about changing ports, changing protocols at ports, changing testing requirements, etc., etc., but the couple that booked their first cruise based on the advertised itinerary has no reason to believe that it might change. 

“Oblivious “ quite a broad generalization 

[Fouremco]

8 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

“Oblivious “ quite a broad generalization 

OK, how about "generally unaware"?