Muster Drill

[PAHORNER]

I haven’t been to this site in sometime so my navigation skills aren't what they were. I  tried to see if this question had been asked and answered before but couldn’t find it. How are the muster drills being handled. With mask and social distancing are they still out on deck ? Thanks

[HAL4NOW]

When you board you have time to go to your muster station with your key-card and check in (no crowds) and then watch the video on the television regarding muster stations. Simple and efficient.

[twodjs]

So much easier than before. Hope this becomes the new normal for muster drills.

Edited October 13, 2021 by twodjs

[PAHORNER]

Wow, that sounds wonderful. Hope it becomes the norm too. Nice !

[Nymich]

Add watch it on the app as an option.

[VMax1700]

It is so much more civilized than the previous Muster Drills.

 

[chengkp75]

I sincerely hope this new format never gets "tested" in reality, as I don't foresee good results.

[VMax1700]

7 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I sincerely hope this new format never gets "tested" in reality, as I don't foresee good results.

Why should the results be any less optimal than the previous version of sitting in Pinnacle Grill/MDR etc while listening to the Captain, or squeezed together under a lifeboat listening to the Captain while trying to shelter from the sun/rain/wind?

[RGEDad]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

I sincerely hope this new format never gets "tested" in reality, as I don't foresee good results.

Well - I suppose they could take an old ship, load it up with crew and say....3000...passengers, take it out into a storm, and "Pull the plug". Then record what happens. That would be a good test.

 

Do you suppose the FAA did some "Studies" on the video presentations now used in aircraft vs in-person reading of the pre-flight safety script. 

 

In cogitating about this, I suspect there are more than a couple of Doctoral theses generated on Instruction retention for emergency instructions.

[chengkp75]

36 minutes ago, RGEDad said:

Well - I suppose they could take an old ship, load it up with crew and say....3000...passengers, take it out into a storm, and "Pull the plug". Then record what happens. That would be a good test.

 

Do you suppose the FAA did some "Studies" on the video presentations now used in aircraft vs in-person reading of the pre-flight safety script. 

 

In cogitating about this, I suspect there are more than a couple of Doctoral theses generated on Instruction retention for emergency instructions.

Yes, the FAA has done studies on the video presentations.  The IMO has done none on this new format for ships, as it  was brought about primarily by covid.

 

There are not only doctoral theses about emergency responses, but also computer paradigms that model "herd" response in emergencies.  It has long been known that "muscle memory" is the best training, therefore, actually participating in a drill works better than this kind of individual training.  The other aspect is that without the passenger muster drill, there is no longer any realistic crew training in "herding the cats" all at once.  Training with compliant crew standing in for unruly, and uncooperative passengers is not optimal.

 

When I say "tested in reality", I am speaking of a true emergency, where I don't foresee a good outcome.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I sincerely hope this new format never gets "tested" in reality, as I don't foresee good results.

I have cited your opinion on this matter in several previous thread concerning the new muster drill format. I think you bluntly put it as "The muster drill is for the crew. The responsibiliy of the passengers is to show up and shut up."

 

I would add though that I hope even if they go back to the old format (which I do not think they will because passengers will not want that), I still hope there is never a need to have a real emergency where the lessons of the drill need to be followed.

[rafinmd]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

I think you bluntly put it as "The muster drill is for the crew. The responsibiliy of the passengers is to show up and shut up."

Perhaps the direct training benefit is for the crew but certainly having the crew get that realistic training ultimately benefits the passengers.

 

Roy

[RGEDad]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

It has long been known that "muscle memory" is the best training, therefore, actually participating in a drill works better than this kind of individual training.  The other aspect is that without the passenger muster drill, there is no longer any realistic crew training in "herding the cats" all at once.  Training with compliant crew standing in for unruly, and uncooperative passengers is not optimal.

I pretty much agree with you. I tend to be one of those weird people on the plane that, all these many years, still listen to the airplane announcement, look for the raft storage above, feel for the Life Preserver below the seat, and even (gasp) take out the emergency plane card and look at it.

On the ship, I even check that the Life Preservers are, in fact, in the closet. I was interested in the new Muster method that that the crew did not even point out where our specific Muster station was. My DW asked me as we were walking back and I had to point it out. Easy enough to see - She just did not correlate the Letter/Number code on our Cabin Card to the Code by each Life Boat.

I was in a training session once, as a participant, where both the leads and other participants were in training. I was pulled aside early (and unbeknownst to the leaders in training) and told to be confused, uncooperative, wander to places I should not be going, and get "emotional".  It was more than a little unnerving for the leaders in training to see what could go wrong when they are (trying to) herd befuddled people. THAT as a lot of fun (on my part - not so much for them).

Edited October 14, 2021 by RGEDad

[FlaMariner]

ah yes, the good ole days where we would wait out in the hot Florida sun with orange life jackets on blowing on the whistle that others blew on last week.....Listening to the crew taking attendance by hand trying to figure out how to pronounce names yelling thru a bull horn while we all start talking and complaining while we are belly button to belly button with our fellow passengers....And then the crush to all leave when done...tripping over life jacket strings and being behind the little old lady who has not climbed stairs in years.....And then there were the ones that thought this did not apply to them and they would be late (& we would give them the evil eye) or we would hear them being summoned  over the IC the rest of the day requesting their attendance at the pursers office....and the rumors of folks being kicked off from not showing would start....

 

I'm much better focused and much more able to handle an emergency with the new process.  One + for technology.

[chengkp75]

38 minutes ago, FlaMariner said:

I'm much better focused and much more able to handle an emergency with the new process.  One + for technology.

Is this just your impression of the new format, or have you experienced a real emergency muster after having done the new format, to determine whether or not you are more focused and better able to handle an emergency?  I suppose you think that firemen training with a cardboard sign in a room saying "fire" is just as effective training as putting them in an actually burning room, and adding casualties, as a previous poster mentioned?  Don't you think that the distractions of an old style muster drill actually make you focus much more on your actions and responses?  Being able to saunter to your station at your own time and pace is quite different than trying to get there while everyone else is also doing it.  And, BTW, if you are tripping on the lifejacket strings, you're not stowing them properly, and I've always felt it should be part of the drill to have everyone properly stow their jackets before leaving.

Edited October 14, 2021 by chengkp75

[FlaMariner]

32 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Is this just your impression of the new format, or have you experienced a real emergency muster after having done the new format, to determine whether or not you are more focused and better able to handle an emergency?  I suppose you think that firemen training with a cardboard sign in a room saying "fire" is just as effective training as putting them in an actually burning room, and adding casualties, as a previous poster mentioned?  Don't you think that the distractions of an old style muster drill actually make you focus much more on your actions and responses?  Being able to saunter to your station at your own time and pace is quite different than trying to get there while everyone else is also doing it.  And, BTW, if you are tripping on the lifejacket strings, you're not stowing them properly, and I've always felt it should be part of the drill to have everyone properly stow their jackets before leaving.

 

Ouch.  Please stop judging me.  LOL.....let's just say you are right on everything and sorry I tossed out my thoughts and opinion.

 

All the best to you as you we all safely sail.....

[chengkp75]

34 minutes ago, FlaMariner said:

 

Ouch.  Please stop judging me.  LOL.....let's just say you are right on everything and sorry I tossed out my thoughts and opinion.

 

All the best to you as you we all safely sail.....

Not judging, just pointing out from my professional experience what problems I see with the new format muster.

[FlaMariner]

39 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Not judging, just pointing out from my professional experience what problems I see with the new format muster.

 

Whatever...you are right...forgive me for sharing my thoughts and amateurish traveler experiences.  You are the smart one in the room.  Enjoy it.

 

All the best bud.

[AmazedByCruising]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I suppose you think that firemen training with a cardboard sign in a room saying "fire" is just as effective training as putting them in an actually burning room, and adding casualties, as a previous poster mentioned?  Don't you think that the distractions of an old style muster drill actually make you focus much more on your actions and responses? 

 

A bunch of people doing their chore during muster drill does resemble a cardboard sign saying "panicking pax" a bit. The crew would learn more than learn than with the new method, but it wouldn't have one person acting like RGEDad was asked to, but perhaps many of them.

 

If the muster station is a restaurant, I can totally see people running to the lifeboat instead "to be first in line" and the rest of the group following those. I wonder what they found out after Costa Concordia and Viking Sky.The latter looks quite relaxed.

 

 

[chengkp75]

13 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

A bunch of people doing their chore during muster drill does resemble a cardboard sign saying "panicking pax" a bit. The crew would learn more than learn than with the new method, but it wouldn't have one person acting like RGEDad was asked to, but perhaps many of them.

 

If the muster station is a restaurant, I can totally see people running to the lifeboat instead "to be first in line" and the rest of the group following those. I wonder what they found out after Costa Concordia and Viking Sky.The latter looks quite relaxed.

Even many crew "tasked" to be lost/confused/obstructive passengers would not give off the same "aura" as people who are actually in that state.

 

The two incidents you mention are about polar opposites on the spectrum of musters.  On Concordia, crew, acting on orders from the bridge, sent people away from the muster stations, and there was no actual mustering until the Captain announced "abandon ship", which led both passengers and crew to get into lifeboats and rafts with virtually no accountability.  Remember, the passenger muster, even in a real emergency, is not to get into the boats and abandon ship.  The Viking Sky, on the other hand, had the muster called well before any thought of abandoning the ship was formulated.  This is how it should be done, so that the passengers are all in controlled locations, and accounted for.  These two examples show how to absolutely not do a passenger muster on one hand, and a fine example of how to do one on the other.

[kazu]

Personally, I think the new muster drill procedure makes sense in a lot of ways.  You still go and find your lifeboat location so that you know where to go.  

 

I’ve been at enough drills where you can’t even hear because people won’t shut up.  At least this way you hear.  I’m like RGEDad and check for my life preserver, practice putting it on, etc.

 

HAL’s makes more sense than Oceania’s.  We went to the show room, crowded with life jackets on (ugh) and NEVER EVER reported to our tender location.  Instead we would be led out of the back way of the show room.  I could just picture the mad rush.  Sorry.

 

The crew practices muster drills all the time on some of the port days IME.

 

While the points raised by chengkp75 make a lot of sense and I have all the respect in the world for his thoughts, many times the passengers do not get any benefit from the drill at all due to calling of names, frustration and chatting by some.  

[AmazedByCruising]

15 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Even many crew "tasked" to be lost/confused/obstructive passengers would not give off the same "aura" as people who are actually in that state.

 

Crew is continuously trained to be as nice as possible, and don't really look like an average guest.  🙂

 

At least in theory you could have a team of (possibly volunteer) actors in Miami whose sole job is to act like passengers, visiting a few muster stations during turn around day. Planned such that at least a certain percentage of the crew has had to cope with them in the last 12 months.

 

But, as you say, it's the Captain who can turn an accident into either a disaster or a smooth process. 

 

[Seasick Sailor]

5 minutes ago, kazu said:

Personally, I think the new muster drill procedure makes sense in a lot of ways.  You still go and find your lifeboat location so that you know where to go.  

 

I’ve been at enough drills where you can’t even hear because people won’t shut up.  At least this way you hear.  I’m like RGEDad and check for my life preserver, practice putting it on, etc.

 

HAL’s makes more sense than Oceania’s.  We went to the show room, crowded with life jackets on (ugh) and NEVER EVER reported to our tender location.  Instead we would be led out of the back way of the show room.  I could just picture the mad rush.  Sorry.

 

The crew practices muster drills all the time on some of the port days IME.

 

While the points raised by chengkp75 make a lot of sense and I have all the respect in the world for his thoughts, many times the passengers do not get any benefit from the drill at all due to calling of names, frustration and chatting by some.  

 

 

 

 

Jacqui, you are an "old salt" and have knowledge of the drills on many ships. But when I first began sailing (my first was on Oosterdam with my sister) we both were very interested in the whole process and we stayed behind and helped each other with our vests.

 

Now we're seasoned cruisers, but I still take the musters seriously. 

 

That said, my sister told me most disaster's would probably happen at night after a few rounds of cocktails and we wouldn't be able to locate anything..

[kazu]

3 minutes ago, Seasick Sailor said:

Now we're seasoned cruisers, but I still take the musters seriously. 

 

Oh, I take the musters very seriously as well. No question about that 😉 

 

3 minutes ago, Seasick Sailor said:

That said, my sister told me most disaster's would probably happen at night after a few rounds of cocktails and we wouldn't be able to locate anything..

 

Your sister is right - at least in my experience - we’ve had two where we were awakened and the alarms started.  One time we only had to stay in our rooms and the Captain came back on and reported all was well (HAL) The other time, we actually proceeded to our stations  (not HAL) and after 20 minutes we were told we could all go back to bed 😉 

 

 

[Seasick Sailor]

1 minute ago, kazu said:

 

Oh, I take the musters very seriously as well. No question about that 😉 

 

 

Your sister is right - at least in my experience - we’ve had two where we were awakened and the toots started.  One time we only had to stay in our rooms and the Captain came back on and reported all was well (HAL) The other time, we actually proceeded to our stations  (not HAL) and after 20 minutes we were told we could all go back to bed 😉 

 

 

 

Did you ever find out what happened?