Symphony - terrible / no shows / Covid ?

[danielwje1]

26 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Not just "underestimated," but made a conscious decision to maximize profits over the holiday period by packing passengers into their ships, especially Oasis class ships.  Forget health and safety protocols.  

I think the issue is that the health and safety protocols just don’t work with so many people on the ship. 
 

Take last night as an example (forgetting the fact 1977 was swapped out for iSkate at the last minute with no communication due to some of the cast having to isolate). 
 

Attached we have the line which we had to wait in for 30 minutes to get into Studio B due to capacity issues. 
 

we then enter Studio B to find half of the seats are blocked off to allow “physical distancing” with families having to sit in a non-vax area. But, we were standing in the packed line with the same families with kids for over 30 minutes. 
 

if we were going to catch Covid, we would have done so waiting in line. If they removed the blocked seats then we wouldn’t have been waiting in line and arguably more safe than the current protocols and much better customer experience. Alternatively, knowing there’s virtually no other entertainment and if they need to work with the current protocols, the cruise staff could have scheduled more ice shows to give everyone a chance to see and stay safer by avoiding the crowds. 
 

i think the current protocols work well if the ship is at low capacity, but clearly it just doesn’t work with so many people onboard. This is further compounded by lack of staff and because there’s no entertainment, when something is happening there is a massive crowd looking to be (rightfully so) entertained. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by danielwje1

[bajathree]

24 minutes ago, danielwje1 said:

I think the issue is that the health and safety protocols just don’t work with so many people on the ship. 
 

Take last night as an example (forgetting the fact 1977 was swapped out for iSkate at the last minute with no communication due to some of the cast having to isolate). 
 

Attached we have the line which we had to wait in for 30 minutes to get into Studio B due to capacity issues. 
 

we then enter Studio B to find half of the seats are blocked off to allow “physical distancing” with families having to sit in a non-vax area. But, we were standing in the packed line with the same families with kids for over 30 minutes. 
 

if we were going to catch Covid, we would have done so waiting in line. If they removed the blocked seats then we wouldn’t have been waiting in line and arguably more safe than the current protocols and much better customer experience. Alternatively, knowing there’s virtually no other entertainment and if they need to work with the current protocols, the cruise staff could have scheduled more ice shows to give everyone a chance to see and stay safer by avoiding the crowds. 
 

i think the current protocols work well if the ship is at low capacity, but clearly it just doesn’t work with so many people onboard. This is further compounded by lack of staff and because there’s no entertainment, when something is happening there is a massive crowd looking to be (rightfully so) entertained. 

I agree 100%

Seeing the difference sailing Odyssey in Sept with 1100 passengers and then Allure earlier this month with 3400 passengers I saw that there were going to be issues. While protocols on Odyssey worked very well the protocols weren't working on Allure....simply too much occupancy. One venue would require a mask where you wouldn't be closer than 10 feet from anyone else and then another required nothing and you were packed in like sardines. The idea of having vaccinate and unvaccinated areas simply doesn't work with high occupancy. Raising occupancy should have required ships to be 100% vaccinated and get rid of the division of space between vaccinated and unvaccinated....crazy.

[RFerrington]

4 hours ago, ReneeFLL said:

So you finally got your exemption to go thru?

No.  We've never tried.  Until we can go to the casino we have no interest in cruising.

[Pratique]

16 hours ago, cured said:

It is not so easy to reduce capacity by bumping people within a 2-3 week window.  There are many other factors to consider like paid airline flights, especially those from across the pond, non-refundable hotels and all the other expenses people laid out months in advance. It is not like an airline where you can volunteer to get on a flight a couple of hours later. There is no cruise a few hours later. The company did shut down bookings to keep capacity at what was already booked.

They could first ask for voluntary cancelations. Then move to involuntary cancelations. The expenses are at the traveler's risk. I paid extra for refundable airfare to Miami next month just in case we test positive before leaving or if something else changes. This is not magical thinking.

[heatherb1958]

Looking at  @danielwje1’s top photo for the line getting into studioB where there is a woman not wearing her mask at all because she is holding a drink perhaps there should be a rule ‘No eating or drinking while STANDING  in line for venues ‘ .

I am sure the rule is “ masks may only be removed whilst SEATED actively eating and drinking “ . I would have said something to her , what is the point of everyone surrounding her adhering to the rule when she could be positive and spreading infection 😡.

[theLCC1]

18 minutes ago, Pratique said:

They could first ask for voluntary cancelations. Then move to involuntary cancelations. The expenses are at the traveler's risk. I paid extra for refundable airfare to Miami next month just in case we test positive before leaving or if something else changes. This is not magical thinking.

Exactly! They had so many options. We waited until the last minute to cancel our 12/30 sailing -- hoping they would reach out and offer to price protect us and move us to next year. This would have been such an easy solution. 

[cruiselvr04]

People will do what they want to do regardless of the “rules” unless they are being monitored and or threatened with action like kicking them off the ship.  Royal is not going to do that and in reality they can’t.  There are not enough staff to monitor everyone.  They have to rely on the people behaving themselves.  A lady on our cruise got in the elevator, mask down, while she sipped on a beer to make it “okay”.  Many others were maskless on the elevators.  Accept that people will not follow the rules or don’t cruise.  I’m not saying it’s right, it’s reality.  
I’m watching the reports on the boards right now before I make final at the end of the month.  Not sure I’m comfortable with the new variant with increased occupancy, minimal entertainment and no ports.  TBD.  

[tcneal]

5 hours ago, danielwje1 said:

I think the issue is that the health and safety protocols just don’t work with so many people on the ship. 
 

Take last night as an example (forgetting the fact 1977 was swapped out for iSkate at the last minute with no communication due to some of the cast having to isolate). 
 

Attached we have the line which we had to wait in for 30 minutes to get into Studio B due to capacity issues. 
 

we then enter Studio B to find half of the seats are blocked off to allow “physical distancing” with families having to sit in a non-vax area. But, we were standing in the packed line with the same families with kids for over 30 minutes. 
 

if we were going to catch Covid, we would have done so waiting in line. If they removed the blocked seats then we wouldn’t have been waiting in line and arguably more safe than the current protocols and much better customer experience. Alternatively, knowing there’s virtually no other entertainment and if they need to work with the current protocols, the cruise staff could have scheduled more ice shows to give everyone a chance to see and stay safer by avoiding the crowds. 
 

i think the current protocols work well if the ship is at low capacity, but clearly it just doesn’t work with so many people onboard. This is further compounded by lack of staff and because there’s no entertainment, when something is happening there is a massive crowd looking to be (rightfully so) entertained. 

I was at that show last night and was very confused also.  I thought I booked the wrong show.  No indication that they were changing it.  I asked afterwards and was just told they couldn't perform 1977.  Looks like from your picture we were a few rows in front of you.

 

I think this entire thread can be boiled down to 2 words.  Capacity and Communication. 

[tcneal]

4 hours ago, bajathree said:

I agree 100%

Seeing the difference sailing Odyssey in Sept with 1100 passengers and then Allure earlier this month with 3400 passengers I saw that there were going to be issues. While protocols on Odyssey worked very well the protocols weren't working on Allure....simply too much occupancy. One venue would require a mask where you wouldn't be closer than 10 feet from anyone else and then another required nothing and you were packed in like sardines. The idea of having vaccinate and unvaccinated areas simply doesn't work with high occupancy. Raising occupancy should have required ships to be 100% vaccinated and get rid of the division of space between vaccinated and unvaccinated....crazy.

Thank you.  This is what I have been trying to say.  All the protocols break down when there are too many people.  Increasing Capacity too soon was the biggest mistake they could have made.  They will try to blame this solely on Omicron but I wonder what would have happened if they just kept capacity low.

[Pratique]

3 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Exactamundo! Perfect summation of the current fallacies and operational conditions. The fact that so many are comforted by theater is what amazes me. These same folks wouldn't drive through a dangerous gang infested murder zone with a bullet resistant vest on but will kneel at the alter of the mask and patently ridiculous and arbitrary rules/mandates. It's maddening. Seems common sense has been effected by covid as well.     

A lot of it is apathy. The choice between eating in the dining room or wearing the mask and eating in their cabin, most will choose to eat in the dining room. At some point we get cornered by the rules so we end up breaking them to get on with life. I don't fault people for this when the rules are impractical. Once the rules get broken then it is easier to fall into apathy.

[cruisingguy007]

2 minutes ago, Pratique said:

A lot of it is apathy. The choice between eating in the dining room or wearing the mask and eating in their cabin, most will choose to eat in the dining room. At some point we get cornered by the rules so we end up breaking them to get on with life. I don't fault people for this when the rules are impractical. Once the rules get broken then it is easier to fall into apathy.

 

Good point. 

[jasongoldberg]

I sat at one of the lounges after I came onboard today and the server just opened up about how frustrated he is about the situation. He said they knew for 2 sailings that things were going downhill. Apparently hundreds of crew have been offloaded in Miami, CocoCay and St Martin and only a fraction replaced. He said he’s working > 12 hour shifts covering his venue. 
 

I’m presently on my balcony watching *another* 27 crew transferring over to Rhapsody. So— over 125 since last night. Not a good situation. 
 

The server said that they plan on taking on a few crew back in Miami, but he said many crew hope they they cancel the 12/31 sailing ‘to reset and get back to where we need to be’. Smart guy. 

[jasongoldberg]

This is directly across from where the passengers are boarding. Genius. 

[LGW59]

5 minutes ago, jasongoldberg said:

I sat at one of the lounges after I came onboard today and the server just opened up about how frustrated he is about the situation. He said they knew for 2 sailings that things were going downhill. Apparently hundreds of crew have been offloaded in Miami, CocoCay and St Martin and only a fraction replaced. He said he’s working > 12 hour shifts covering his venue. 
 

I’m presently on my balcony watching *another* 27 crew transferring over to Rhapsody. So— over 125 since last night. Not a good situation. 
 

The server said that they plan on taking on a few crew back in Miami, but he said many crew hope they they cancel the 12/31 sailing ‘to reset and get back to where we need to be’. Smart guy. 

The whole situation is just so very unfortunate for all, passengers and especially for the crew. They care and want to do a great job, I just feel that the lines are putting them in a very untenable situation.  

[vacationlover_mn]

2 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

The whole situation is just so very unfortunate for all, passengers and especially for the crew. They care and want to do a great job, I just feel that the lines are putting them in a very untenable situation.  

I know one thing for sure- when we board Odyssey in Feb, we are tipping SO MUCH!

[cruisingguy007]

Thanks for the first hand report. Looks like things are being handled and the process working to get these folks isolated and quarantined. Though it seems that is changing daily as well with pressure from industry to cut isolation times because of staff shortages. They are already doing it in some hospitals, restaurants, and other industries that are facing worker shortages. They have to do all this on the fly and with so many moving parts and particulars. Seems like they are doing the best they can with employees dropping like flies, it should flush through all the ships pretty quickly since it's so contagious. Hopefully, most cases are minor and the employees recover quickly. Has to be a scary and a bit lonely time for these hard working folks. I really feel for them, they are really in a tough spot and essentially stuck with whatever is foisted upon them.     

[danielwje1]

14 minutes ago, jasongoldberg said:

This is directly across from where the passengers are boarding. Genius. 

Crew member told me they’re Covid positive! Very close to us when we were getting on. 

[jasongoldberg]

2 minutes ago, danielwje1 said:

Crew member told me they’re Covid positive! Very close to us when we were getting on. 

I noticed that. Couldn’t have been 50 feet from passengers. Not close enough to be risky but I was just surprised that they did all of this in view of passengers right at our departure time. 

[danielwje1]

19 minutes ago, jasongoldberg said:

I sat at one of the lounges after I came onboard today and the server just opened up about how frustrated he is about the situation. He said they knew for 2 sailings that things were going downhill. Apparently hundreds of crew have been offloaded in Miami, CocoCay and St Martin and only a fraction replaced. He said he’s working > 12 hour shifts covering his venue. 
 

I’m presently on my balcony watching *another* 27 crew transferring over to Rhapsody. So— over 125 since last night. Not a good situation. 
 

The server said that they plan on taking on a few crew back in Miami, but he said many crew hope they they cancel the 12/31 sailing ‘to reset and get back to where we need to be’. Smart guy. 

I need a PCR test before departure due to flying to BGI that requires PCR. I requested this when boarded to be told it was booked. Chased up this morning to be told they would call me back. No call back so visited the front desk who still can’t confirm if they’ve booked a PCR for me or not.

 

Either extremely disorganised or making it very hard to get tested onboard. 

[MrMarc]

I really think this boils down to how closely people were following the news and boards like this so they had some indication of what was going on, while those that didn't were surprised by everything.  I know that none of my posts have tried to tell anyone how they should feel about what is going on.  I fully understand being frustrated, disappointed, angry, or any combination of these.  The thing is that none of these things surprised me, so if I had gone on this cruise I would not have been surprised and upset, it's what I would have expected.  It is also why I probably will go on my 1/15 cruise, but i would have never gone on this one, if for no other reason than the increased number of passengers.  And with the speed that the situation was changing, I am not sure what RCCCL could have done about that, they were already sold.  One way or another RCCL was going to make a lot of people mad.  I knew that they were going to have to stop paying compensation that they really did not owe, however if any group deserves compensation, I would agree it is this cruise, however because of the amount of money involved in doing that, I can understand why RCCL has made the decision it has, but I would be unhappy about it if I were onboard, but know that it was not owed.  As for the protocols not being followed, you have to blame the passengers.  All of the things people are saying are impossible in that regard are difficult, but entirely possible, if people would actually do them.  I have been saying this was going to happen for the last 2 months, and mostly I have been flamed and called names, well, strangely this did happen.   So while I understand the feelings of those onboard, I just cannot get behind the blame RCCL attitude.  And I absolutely do not believe anything is related to cutting costs or purposely canceling shows, etc.  I am not sure what the people onboard want from these posts, but just like the cruise, your attitude is often based on unmet expectations.  And that means you have to have realistic expectations.

[MrMarc]

By the way, if you think RCCL should have done anything different, just read the contradictory suggestions made in these types of threads.  They truly could not win.

[nocl]

22 hours ago, DevonfromAcme said:

 

Not sure what is "unethical" about it?  From what we know so far:

 

-- The crew CANNOT social distance.  There is literally not enough square footage below decks to keep them apart.

--  Covid is spreading among the crew.

-- Positives among passengers are minimal.

-- The number of positive crew members is impacting the ability of ships to dock at scheduled ports.

-- RCI is offloading positive crew members to isolation ships at St Martin and Coco Cay to minimize infection and allow sailings to continue onward.

 

I'm just not sure what's unethical about this?  What, exactly, are you expecting RCI to do as an alternative?

The cases are being found in the crew because they are tested every 7 days.

 

There might be more cases among the passengers but unless they show symptoms, or have to test to fly back to a non-US country or doing a back to back they are not tested.  From other discussions if one person shows symptoms and tests positive they do not even test the other family members.

With on a very small percentage of passengers being tested no way to know how many cases there are.

[luckyinpa]

i saw in another forum at least one NCL ship just canceled most entertainment on board for this weeks cruise. im no scientist but it seems like january will be no entertainment anywhere. but if you just wanna cruise cheap now may be the time to book

[firefly333]

3 minutes ago, luckyinpa said:

i saw in another forum at least one NCL ship just canceled most entertainment on board for this weeks cruise. im no scientist but it seems like january will be no entertainment anywhere. but if you just wanna cruise cheap now may be the time to book

That's me. ..though I'm already booked jan 30 and have a nonrefundable hotel jan 29th. I've seen the shows on loberty so wouldnt matter too much if they cancelled.

 

I've watched may all week and prices havent budged, though from all the negative posts I was hopeful of lower prices. 

[danielwje1]

15 hours ago, jasongoldberg said:

This is directly across from where the passengers are boarding. Genius. 

 

I guess this is all we’re going to receive! A gesture of some OBC would go a long way right now I feel. 
 

With the high markups it would also be relatively low cost for RCCL.