How does the cruise industry get out of this mess?

[Spif Barwunkel]

No way to get out of "this mess," for the cruise industry or anyone else. Rather, it is a matter of gradually mitigating the consequences of Covids effects. Hoping for a "law of diminishing returns," if you will. Keep doing what you're doing, so to speak, just do it more carefully and with prudence. Eventually - no time frame here - Covid19 will take its place alongside many other maladies and issues that have plagued mankind becoming just an annoyance, perhaps, but one that has to be monitored and dealt with just the same.         

[AmazedByCruising]

11 hours ago, donaldsc said:

3.  Most important - being honest with the passengers at all times as to what is happening on the ship.

 

This has been a pet peeve of mine since my first cruise, but then is was: "why is nobody telling us why we are sailing in a circle in the middle of the night?". Now it's people who are quarantined telling that the Captain suddenly stopped giving the daily numbers of infected people a few days ago. Or that something didn't happen for "technical reasons" and automatically assuming that Covid is the "technical reason". Apparently nobody at HQ is looking at Twitter or CC, to call the ship and tell the Captain to grab a microphone and explain exactly what is happening and what he honestly expects. 

 

 

 

[taglovestocruise]

16 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Your last sentence.  With 700,000 cases happening per day, I wonder if cutting cruising would really make any noticable difference?  

USA hit 1.1 million new cases yesterday. This virus is here to stay, we cruise next Monday with no worries whatsoever except passing our test on Saturday. So far 6 out of 30 in our family have tested positive since  our Christmas Eve party  and a New Years bbq at the in laws.  All asymptomatic and ever one else saying no more testing.

[AmazedByCruising]

20 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, because this merely cleans the air within the space, not the HVAC system.  From my rudimentary Dutch, it appears the unit is capable of "reaching" 150m2, or about 40 feet square, so you would need to station several in each public space, all at least 20 feet from the wall (not real convenient for a space where people are transitory), and also one in each cabin.  What would the price be?  Interesting, but would need further studies and cost analysis.

 

Why would you need one in each cabin? The probability of DH and DW infecting one another won't be affected much with better air. Crew shouldn't visit a cabin that had pax in it for an hour or so.

 

[cruisemom42]

NCL has just notified passengers currently on Pearl that the ship is turning back to Miami due to illness among crew members. Ship will arrive back on the 6th; was due to be cruising the Panama Canal until Jan 14th. 

 

Also, breaking news, they have canceled NCL Getaway cruise that was due to start tomorrow (Jan 5th).

 

Thread on NCL forum:  

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by cruisemom42

[SelectSys]

Patience and time is what is required now.   We are simply in for a rough patch in terms of disruptions as the virus makes it way through society.  Good news that Omicron is less deadly than other variants and even more so for the vaccinated.

 

I am in strong support of all the comments regarding more disclosure.  Honesty and openness go a long way with me.

 

34 minutes ago, taglovestocruise said:

This virus is here to stay, we cruise next Monday with no worries whatsoever except passing our test on Saturday.

With Omicron, the probability of being denied boarding while being asymptomatic is probably getting a whole lot higher.  I can see a lot more people being denied boarding coming in the near future.

 

36 minutes ago, taglovestocruise said:

So far 6 out of 30 in our family have tested positive since  our Christmas Eve party  and a New Years bbq at the in laws

No surprise on this.  I know of a couple of school teachers that tested positive as part of mandatory testing before returning to school.  They are assuming that everyone else in the family is positive too.

 

35 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

NCL has just notified passengers currently on Pearl that the ship is turning back to Miami due to illness among crew members.

No surprise on this either.  It's going to be a turbulent month for sure for all businesses including travel related.  I understand over a thousand flights have been cancelled today due to weather and Omicron.

 

[chengkp75]

Either the Pearl and Getaway have enormous outbreaks among crew, or they have statutory crew out sick.  I know that Cunard had to stop the QM2 in Bermuda due to lack of qualified deck officers, and I suspect this may be the case with NCL as well (there is a minimum number of various deck and engine ratings and officers that must be on the ship to sail).

[Markanddonna]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Either the Pearl and Getaway have enormous outbreaks among crew, or they have statutory crew out sick.  I know that Cunard had to stop the QM2 in Bermuda due to lack of qualified deck officers, and I suspect this may be the case with NCL as well (there is a minimum number of various deck and engine ratings and officers that must be on the ship to sail).

Your answer solved a mystery of cruising during Covid. Thanks!

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, taglovestocruise said:

USA hit 1.1 million new cases yesterday. This virus is here to stay, we cruise next Monday with no worries whatsoever except passing our test on Saturday. So far 6 out of 30 in our family have tested positive since  our Christmas Eve party  and a New Years bbq at the in laws.  All asymptomatic and ever one else saying no more testing.

 

I know. That is an insane number of new cases.  

 

This is one of those times when it is OK to wish someone a negative!  Cruise sounds terrific - Enjoy!    

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, taglovestocruise said:

USA hit 1.1 million new cases yesterday. This virus is here to stay, we cruise next Monday with no worries whatsoever except passing our test on Saturday. So far 6 out of 30 in our family have tested positive since  our Christmas Eve party  and a New Years bbq at the in laws.  All asymptomatic and ever one else saying no more testing.

"... no worries whatsoever except passing our test..."?????   So you have NO concern about possibility of missing one (or all) of your scheduled ports-- or being quarantined for the balance of your cruise -- 

or having your cruise cancelled?   

 

Wow!

[SelectSys]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Either the Pearl and Getaway have enormous outbreaks among crew, or they have statutory crew out sick.  I know that Cunard had to stop the QM2 in Bermuda due to lack of qualified deck officers, and I suspect this may be the case with NCL as well (there is a minimum number of various deck and engine ratings and officers that must be on the ship to sail).

Sounds like the problems being felt by the airlines are now impacting the cruise ships as well.  

 

21 minutes ago, ldubs said:

That is an insane number of new cases.  

As Buzz Lightyear is fond of saying, "To infinity and beyond!"

 

 

[ldubs]

12 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

"... no worries whatsoever except passing our test..."?????   So you have NO concern about possibility of missing one (or all) of your scheduled ports-- or being quarantined for the balance of your cruise -- 

or having your cruise cancelled?   

 

Wow!

 

Not saying I would feel the same about a cruise right now, but I kind of understand.  It is like if we (READER WARNING- THE FOLLOWING MAY CAUSE GASPING AND SHORTNESS OF BREATH)  fly in the morning of the cruise.  I know I could be delayed. But I don't really worry about it.   😀😀😀

[taglovestocruise]

30 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

"... no worries whatsoever except passing our test..."?????   So you have NO concern about possibility of missing one (or all) of your scheduled ports-- or being quarantined for the balance of your cruise -- 

or having your cruise cancelled?   

 

Wow!

Missing Ports... We love sea days.

Being quarantined .. We booked a suite this cruise.

Cruise cancelled... More FCC's to pile up. 

Fail the rapid antigen test... Money in our pocket, we are a short drive to the port. 

 Lighten up NBT, have no worries and be happy. 

Best New Year wishes to you and yours.. 

[rabidstoat]

16 minutes ago, taglovestocruise said:

Missing Ports... We love sea days.

Being quarantined .. We booked a suite this cruise.

Cruise cancelled... More FCC's to pile up. 

Fail the rapid antigen test... Money in our pocket, we are a short drive to the port. 

 Lighten up NBT, have no worries and be happy. 

Best New Year wishes to you and yours.. 

 

Unfortunately, every cruise line I've heard of (and I only follow the lower and mid tier lines, not the luxury lines) moves people who must quarantine to new cabins. Often these seem to be interior or outside view cabins on a low floor near the medical center. I assume they want to keep all the quarantined people close together so it's easier to keep an eye on them, make sure they aren't breaking quarantine, deliver food, etc.

I don't think I would book one of those butlered suites a lot of mid-level lines having during the pandemic for fear of testing positive and getting quarantined in a dumpy interior. Though in all the cases I've heard, they return prorated money for the days you're being quarantined, so at least there's that.

[Markanddonna]

8 minutes ago, rabidstoat said:

 

Unfortunately, every cruise line I've heard of (and I only follow the lower and mid tier lines, not the luxury lines) moves people who must quarantine to new cabins. Often these seem to be interior or outside view cabins on a low floor near the medical center. I assume they want to keep all the quarantined people close together so it's easier to keep an eye on them, make sure they aren't breaking quarantine, deliver food, etc.

I don't think I would book one of those butlered suites a lot of mid-level lines having during the pandemic for fear of testing positive and getting quarantined in a dumpy interior. Though in all the cases I've heard, they return prorated money for the days you're being quarantined, so at least there's that.

A logical response. Do folks realize that only your basic needs will be accommodated if they get quarantined in a special cabin? Do you think the overworked few is going to clean your room? 

[navybankerteacher]

31 minutes ago, taglovestocruise said:

Missing Ports... We love sea days.

Being quarantined .. We booked a suite this cruise.

Cruise cancelled... More FCC's to pile up. 

Fail the rapid antigen test... Money in our pocket, we are a short drive to the port. 

 Lighten up NBT, have no worries and be happy. 

Best New Year wishes to you and yours.. 

I hope your cruise turns out to be everything you hope it to be --- which, considering your standards, seems to represent a fairly low bar.

[KBs mum]

Somewhat worrying that so far into this pandemic there are still people who think asymptomatic means not infected or contageous. 

 

Asymptomatic means you have whatever the desease in question is, but without the typical symptoms. 

[Honolulu Blue]

Thanks, everyone, for sharing.  I am simultaneously reassured and disturbed that there is nothing significant that I missed.  It seems the cruise lines have no option but to ride this out (no pun intended).  Clearly it's going to be a rough time to be a cruise fan or involved in the cruise industry.  If any of you are going on a cruise in the next few weeks, you have my admiration - good luck to you all.

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

Thanks, everyone, for sharing.  I am simultaneously reassured and disturbed that there is nothing significant that I missed.  It seems the cruise lines have no option but to ride this out (no pun intended).  Clearly it's going to be a rough time to be a cruise fan or involved in the cruise industry.  If any of you are going on a cruise in the next few weeks, you have my admiration - good luck to you all.

 

Yes, while I prefer to avoid cruises right now, I have no issue with those who are going, and wish them enjoyable trips.  

[ldubs]

What I don't understand is why those few posters feel the need to insult anyone who might have different preferences.  It is sure getting tiresome.   

[Ride-The-Waves]

On 1/4/2022 at 8:18 PM, rabidstoat said:

 

Unfortunately, every cruise line I've heard of (and I only follow the lower and mid tier lines, not the luxury lines) moves people who must quarantine to new cabins. Often these seem to be interior or outside view cabins on a low floor near the medical center. I assume they want to keep all the quarantined people close together so it's easier to keep an eye on them, make sure they aren't breaking quarantine, deliver food, etc.

I don't think I would book one of those butlered suites a lot of mid-level lines having during the pandemic for fear of testing positive and getting quarantined in a dumpy interior. Though in all the cases I've heard, they return prorated money for the days you're being quarantined, so at least there's that.

Princes cruises is using a block of cabins aft on Dolphin Deck (Royal class snips) for isolation.  Its an area that can be sectioned off by fire doors.  Whether that section is HVAC separate from other sections is unknown.   It does provide veranda cabins (fresh air) for those quarantined, to include crew.

[Ride-The-Waves]

The basic issue with cruise ships is that they are designed to provide maximum return for the smallest space and least company cost.  Cruise lines are building new ships designed to hold 5,000-plus passengers in addition to several thousand crew, all stuffed into the same container.  In the era of COVID and other infectious diseases, this model works only to maximize profit and does not work for passenger and crew health and safety.

 

The real answer is the need to throw out this old model and design and build ships more friendly to human cargo.  Better ventilation, more spacious overall, more attention to health over profit, better managed and "policed."  The recent high numbers of COVID cases can be directly attributed to stuffing the mega-ships with passengers (and commensurate crew to care for passengers), and then forgoing any sense of management of established protocols (enforcing masking, distancing, elevators, etc.).

 

"Cruising" evolved from a necessary model of transportation (ocean liners) to one where many ships and cruise lines are only designed to be used as floating hotels and casinos and playgrounds.  If cruising is to remain a serious business it really needs ships designed for health and safety.  Yes - increased cost to cruise, but that is fine with those who enjoy travel to experience different cultures and have new experiences.

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Princes cruises is using a block of cabins aft on Dolphin Deck (Royal class snips) for isolation.  Its an area that can be sectioned off by fire doors.  Whether that section is HVAC separate from other sections is unknown.   It does provide veranda cabins (fresh air) for those quarantined, to include crew.

The fire doors on the ship break it into "vertical fire zones", meaning that all decks from the keel to the mast top, in between two sets of fire doors is a separate zone, with its own ventilation and electrical power, and even water and fire systems.  Now, within each fire zone, an air handler takes outside air and supplies it to all the cabins on one deck, within that zone.  An exhaust fan takes air from the bathrooms in all those same cabins, and exhausts it outside.  Air in cabins is recirculated only to that cabin (there is no co-mingling of air between any cabins on a ship).

[KBs mum]

2 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

The real answer is the need to throw out this old model and design and build ships more friendly to human cargo.  Better ventilation, more spacious overall, more attention to health over profit, better managed and "policed."  The recent high numbers of COVID cases can be directly attributed to stuffing the mega-ships with passengers (and commensurate crew to care for passengers), and then forgoing any sense of management of established protocols (enforcing masking, distancing, elevators, etc.).

 

"Cruising" evolved from a necessary model of transportation (ocean liners) to one where many ships and cruise lines are only designed to be used as floating hotels and casinos and playgrounds.  If cruising is to remain a serious business it really needs ships designed for health and safety.  Yes - increased cost to cruise, but that is fine with those who enjoy travel to experience different cultures and have new experiences.

Ships like that allready exist, just avoid the mass market lines. 

[SelectSys]

40 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

The basic issue with cruise ships is that they are designed to provide maximum return for the smallest space and least company cost

i am sure that all cruise ships are designed with a target rate of return regardless of size or space..  It's not clear that Viking accepts a lower rate of return for their ships than Carnival even though one provides more space than another for each passenger.

 

47 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

 If cruising is to remain a serious business it really needs ships designed for health and safety.

So you really think that ships are going to be made significantly smaller or that companies like RCI, Carnival and Norwegian will disappear as serious businesses?  This will only happen via government mandates / regulations.

 

49 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Yes - increased cost to cruise, but that is fine with those who enjoy travel to experience different cultures and have new experiences.

Pick your line accordingly.  I also have no problem with companies providing affordable cruise  to those who might be more budget constrained to escape and experience different things than their everyday lives.