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Harmony Just Caused Space X launch Cancellation

link99

By link99,
in Royal Caribbean International

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

What I'm wondering is how did anyone miss the problem that ships come and go on a schedule from that port?  It can't be a surprise to Space X that Port Canaveral is a cruise port, which has a pretty regular schedule.  So did the ships ignore the request, or did the request not arrive in time to change plans?  

As noted, the original launch exclusion zone was issued a couple of days before the original date, which was delayed by weather.  So, the notice to mariners was out there, electronically sent to the ship days in advance.  Further, the USCG broadcasts the exact co-ordinates of the exclusion zone every 5 minutes for 2 hours prior to the exclusion zone being activated, and all during the time it is active.  No ship within a hundred miles could not have heard the "Securete" announcement from USCG on the international distress and information channel.  Regardless of whether ships depart this port on a regular schedule, the exclusion zone allowed for them to transit to/from the port with a minor diversion to the south to remain outside the zone.

 

The big question will be whether this was an accidental violation, or a willful one.

Edited by chengkp75
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orville99 "Live from...." Rare

orville99

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

What I'm wondering is how did anyone miss the problem that ships come and go on a schedule from that port?  It can't be a surprise to Space X that Port Canaveral is a cruise port, which has a pretty regular schedule.  So did the ships ignore the request, or did the request not arrive in time to change plans?  

Both the MSC and Harmony ships typically depart the port before 5PM. Apparently they both left about an hour later than scheduled for some reason.

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notmyrealnameoremail

notmyrealnameoremail

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

What I'm wondering is how did anyone miss the problem that ships come and go on a schedule from that port?  It can't be a surprise to Space X that Port Canaveral is a cruise port, which has a pretty regular schedule.  So did the ships ignore the request, or did the request not arrive in time to change plans?  

 

On the other hand, rocket launches from Canaveral started long before cruise ships started sailing from Canaveral.

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kelleherdl

kelleherdl

Posted
Posted (edited)

Last night’s scheduled launch had a very narrow window.  The Captains from both ships should have taken that into account.  For the sake of 30 minutes of sailing time they could have given their passengers, many I am sure who have never seen a missile launch, an experience that would remember as a part of their cruise.

 

As others have said, the Kennedy Space Center should and do have priority over cruise sailings, or fishing boats, or casino cruises or anything else off the coast.  Launch mishaps can still happen.  I don’t know about yesterdays launch, but SpaceX recovers their boosters on a barge at sea in the exclusion zone. I do recall that the recovery barge was not tied up at the port, so I assume this was scheduled to be a sea recovery.  This happens only about 30 miles offshore.  You can actually see the boosters land on the recovery barges.

Edited by kelleherdl
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orville99 "Live from...." Rare

orville99

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, kelleherdl said:

 I don’t know about yesterdays launch, but SpaceX recovers their boosters on a barge at sea in the exclusion zone. I do recall that the recovery barge was not tied up at the port, so I assume this was scheduled to be a sea recovery.

I believe for this one, the booster was supposed to return to the launch site. There was supposed to be a second launch scheduled for today of Starlink satellites that would have called for a barge booster recovery.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, orville99 said:

Who is ultimately responsible if the ship was still under the control of the pilot?

The Captain is always (with the exception of a drydock or Panama Canal) responsible for the ship.  He may give the conn (the authority to issue orders to the crew for maneuvering the ship), but he never relinquishes his authority or responsibility.  The Captain has the authority to relieve the pilot of the conn at any time he feels necessary.  The pilot has no more authority than the watchkeeping bridge officers to whom the Captain also authorizes the conn, while he is not on the bridge.  The two exceptions noted above are due to the fact that the shipyard or the Canal Authority assume full financial responsibility for the ship while in the drydock or the Canal.

Edited by chengkp75
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alfaeric

alfaeric

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, notmyrealnameoremail said:

 

On the other hand, rocket launches from Canaveral started long before cruise ships started sailing from Canaveral.

True, but hardly as regular as the ships have been coming and going.  Once in a while isn't as often as once a week for multiple ships, on a regular schedule.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, F27TW said:

I see this happening more and more in the future with SpaceX and the port getting busier ..

Not if the fine is imposed by the USCG.  There is a perfectly safe course to enter/depart the port without entering the exclusion zone, which is why it was designed that way, and why the USCG did not suspend port operations during the launch, if there was no safe passage.

 

There are also possible proceedings against the Captain's license, if this is shown to be a willful violation.

Edited by chengkp75
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fred30

fred30

Posted
Posted

Does the launch exclusion zone apply to all water craft?  I think it would be issued for all craft but do they abort launch for smaller craft?

I could easily see smaller personal craft in that area not even knowing about it.

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radarcruiser

radarcruiser

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, wayne_trisha said:

These launches with southern trajectories have hazard areas hugging the coast for quite a distance. Easy enough for a fishing boat to end up in the hazard area. I never expected a cruise ship. I also know the NOTMARs (notice to mariners) and NOTAMs (notice to airmen) were published days in advance because I made the requests and received responses 5 days before the Thursday launch attempt and they covered through today's launch attempt. 

The woke FAA has just changed NOTAMs to now be known as “Notice to Air Missions”.  Not kidding.  

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AL3XCruise

AL3XCruise

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, wayne_trisha said:

These launches with southern trajectories have hazard areas hugging the coast for quite a distance.

 

I wonder if the southern trajectory had something to do with it; my understanding is from 1969 to 2020 no polar launches were made from the Cape, meaning the exclusion zone did not stretch to the south.  Even today the polar launches are less common then east-bound launches. Could the fact the officers were familiar with procedures for launches but rarely (possibly never) saw this type of exclusion zone be a contributing factor?  I would think they would have a procedure for charting the exclusion zone (either manually or automatically) that would be sufficiently redundant to prevent mistakes, but it certainly appears something went wrong.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, fred30 said:

Does the launch exclusion zone apply to all water craft?  I think it would be issued for all craft but do they abort launch for smaller craft?

I could easily see smaller personal craft in that area not even knowing about it.

Yes, it applies to every vessel.  Whether they abort for small craft or not is uncertain, but they could be chased out by USCG patrol craft.  Then again, anyone who ventures out onto the sea, even in a small craft, without a channel 16 VHF is an idiot.

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dandee2

dandee2

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, kelleherdl said:

Harmony was in the exclusion zone.  It’s a MARITIME exclusion zone to the southeast of the port.  Enough blame to go around from Port Captain to Coast Guard to Harmony captain.  This is a disgrace to the cruise industry.

pretty Clear on the NOTAM

NOTAM Space Launch.JPG

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, AL3XCruise said:

I would think they would have a procedure for charting the exclusion zone (either manually or automatically) that would be sufficiently redundant to prevent mistakes, but it certainly appears something went wrong.

Regardless of what past procedures have been, the exact lines outlining the exclusion zone are not only distributed in NOTAM's, but also broadcast over channel 16.  The bridge of a ship will be hearing these kinds of calls every single day, and it is the responsibility of the ship's officers to abide by these exclusions.  This is just like the East Coast whale protection zones, that can change every year, and while they are not broadcast, they are also not just for an hour or so.  A temporary zone like this would not be likely to be updated to the ship's electronic charts the way that whale zones would be, but it is very easy for the navigation watch officer to enter the coordinates into the electronic chart for display on the ECDIS (a computer chart combined with radar inputs to show ships, etc).  Since the zone was announced a couple of hours before the ship sailed, it should have been included in the passage plan, and the bridge resource meeting prior to leaving the dock, and if it was found to not have been included in these protocols, then it would escalate to a willful violation of the NOTAM.

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