Roster list for cruise ships?

[magicmallard]

If you know of a website that lists all the jobs and how many do each on cruise ships ... or even for just one cruise ship, please post the list to this thread.  It looks like, on average, there are half as many crew as there are passengers on any cruise ship and I'd like to how they vary and possibly even figure out why.  Thanks!

[CruiserBruce]

The crew/pax ratio is a commonly observed statistic, and varies widely by cruise line. Mass market cruise lines tend to have the 2 to 1 (pax to crew) number you mention, but smaller, luxury cruise lines have rations that are closer to 1:1. That is why luxury cruise lines are well known for their service levels.

[cruizergal70]

What are you hoping to understand from this data?

[leaveitallbehind]

Not sure why this would be important information either.   But keep in mind that crew to passenger ratios don't really indicate anything relative to service levels or customer attention, as a large percentage of any crew mix is dedicated to operational and other behind the scenes functions (officers, engineers, maintenance, security, etc.) that don't necessarily have any direct customer interaction. 

 

Certain higher costing luxury lines would likely have a higher service staff component than others, but a higher crew to passenger ratio in of itself is not necessarily a certain indicator of that.

 

There is no website such as you ask that I am aware of, although most cruise lines have a career page on their website where they advertise available jobs.  Most of those tend to be in the service areas that do have customer interaction.  The vast majority of non-customer facing jobs are filled by an international staff that is placed through ship staffing agencies that recruit globally.

 

There also is no set formula for how many workers would staff any given position as, although basically similar between most, actual staffing would vary cruise line to cruise line, ship to ship, based on ship size, cruising style, etc.

Edited February 2, 2022 by leaveitallbehind
additional info

[leaveitallbehind]

3 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

The crew/pax ratio is a commonly observed statistic, and varies widely by cruise line. Mass market cruise lines tend to have the 2 to 1 (pax to crew) number you mention, but smaller, luxury cruise lines have rations that are closer to 1:1. That is why luxury cruise lines are well known for their service levels.

Let me adjust my comments in my last post to the point you are making.  Certainly the luxury cruise lines would typically tend to have a higher crew to passenger ratio as more service staff are added to their mix to allow for a greater service level to their passengers.  So in that regards, you are indeed correct.  My point regarding ratios is that IMO the higher ones by themselves alone don't always necessarily assure greater levels of service. 

 

Didn't want you to think I was challenging your statement.

Edited February 2, 2022 by leaveitallbehind
correction

[donaldsc]

You can go onto the cruise company WEB sites and check for each ship.  It should tell you the crew size and the number of passengers that can be on.  This will give you the data that you want and it should not take you too much time to get it it.

 

DON

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, leaveitallbehind said:

...

My point regarding ratios is that IMO the higher ones by themselves alone don't always necessarily assure greater levels of service. 

 

...

Well, there is no such thing as a sure thing -- but it is extremely likely that service on a ship with one crew member per passenger would be better than that on one with one per three passengers -- realizing that the heavier staffing is almost certain to be directed towards passenger service, since the deck and engineering staffing is unlikely to change that much.

[Greg4502]

This is just the crew one ship, probably not everyone.

[leaveitallbehind]

4 minutes ago, Greg4502 said:

This is just the crew one ship, probably not everyone.

I am certain it is not everyone.  Most likely hotel, service, and entertainment staff with some officers and a sprinkling of other departments.  Many of the officer staff likely is not present, few of the maintenance staff, very few if any of the engineering staff, likely few security, etc.

 

The theater screen references Zaandam and Rotterdam, two HALships.  Zaandam has 607 crew and Rotterdam has 1,505. Don't know what ship this is from and don't know how many that theater holds, but my guess if it is Rotterdam, this would be maybe half of the total crew?  Again, just guessing. 

 

Someone has to be left running the ship!  LOL.

[leaveitallbehind]

Guess I should qualify my previous response a bit.  We don't have any context relative to this picture as to when and where it was taken and for what purpose.  If it was taken at sea during a cruise, perhaps for some form of crew recognition with the passengers, then my comments would likely be valid.

 

However, while identifying two of the HAL ships, the information on the screens also indicate something about being stronger together.  If this was a PR picture, perhaps with their return to sailing, and it was taken on a smaller ship while in port prior to having passengers on board, then this very well could be most of the crew together.

 

To be clear with what this is showing, I think we need the context in which it is being presented.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by leaveitallbehind
correction

[CruiserBruce]

The context of the picture leaves a lot to be desired..."Rotterdam" could be the older Rotterdam, now out of the fleet, as is Zaandam, I think. I suspect this is a pre-Covid picture.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, leaveitallbehind said:

I am certain it is not everyone.

Even for ceremonies like ship's christening, you won't get a "full" crew photo.  The engineers on watch, and the bridge officers will be absent, and likely a good bit of the galley staff will be working on meal prep.

[CPT Trips]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Even for ceremonies like ship's christening, you won't get a "full" crew photo.  The engineers on watch, and the bridge officers will be absent, and likely a good bit of the galley staff will be working on meal prep.

I’m curious. I’m would think that the answer depends upon ship size.

Do you have insight into how many non passenger facing crew are needed to operate one of today’s cruise ships? To me that excludes hotel, entertainment, medical, and security personnel . . . On that I defer to your experience. 

[chengkp75]

19 minutes ago, CPT Trips said:

I’m curious. I’m would think that the answer depends upon ship size.

Do you have insight into how many non passenger facing crew are needed to operate one of today’s cruise ships? To me that excludes hotel, entertainment, medical, and security personnel . . . On that I defer to your experience. 

Well, that depends on where you draw the line on "non-passenger facing crew".  Deck and Engine departments will run from 50-75 in each department, depending on ship size.  There are a lot of "non-passenger facing" jobs in the hotel departments (everything but deck or engine).  That would be laundry staff (30-50), galley staff including sanitation (dishwashers and cleaners) (100-300), HR (3-10), Purser (5-12), production crew (5-12), Provisions (6-20), Hotel Storekeepers (hotel supplies) (3-10).  Other positions like Hotel Utilities would be "incidentally" passenger facing (you might see them if they need to work in pax areas), and some deck/engine jobs are "incidentally" pax facing (plumbers, carpenters, window washers, pool cleaners).  My top estimates could be way off for the mega ships, as I'm not familiar with their staffing levels.

[leaveitallbehind]

29 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, that depends on where you draw the line on "non-passenger facing crew".  Deck and Engine departments will run from 50-75 in each department, depending on ship size.  There are a lot of "non-passenger facing" jobs in the hotel departments (everything but deck or engine).  That would be laundry staff (30-50), galley staff including sanitation (dishwashers and cleaners) (100-300), HR (3-10), Purser (5-12), production crew (5-12), Provisions (6-20), Hotel Storekeepers (hotel supplies) (3-10).  Other positions like Hotel Utilities would be "incidentally" passenger facing (you might see them if they need to work in pax areas), and some deck/engine jobs are "incidentally" pax facing (plumbers, carpenters, window washers, pool cleaners).  My top estimates could be way off for the mega ships, as I'm not familiar with their staffing levels.

Just a lay person estimate, but I would guess that there are typically more staff in the roles you indicate that would be "behind the scenes" than there are passenger facing staff.  And very possibly by a good percentage.

Edited February 3, 2022 by leaveitallbehind
correction

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

Just a lay person estimate, but I would guess that there are typically more staff in the roles you indicate that would be "behind the scenes" than there are passenger facing staff.  And very possibly by a good percentage.

My experience is that housekeeping, wait staff, bar staff, guest services make up the majority of positions.

[leaveitallbehind]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

My experience is that housekeeping, wait staff, bar staff, guest services make up the majority of positions.

I wouldn't have expected that.  I figured engineering, maintenance, officer staff, security, and support positions within those you mention, etc., in total would overshadow those positions.  Good to know!  You always have great information - thanks!

[navybankerteacher]

53 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

I wouldn't have expected that.  I figured engineering, maintenance, officer staff, security, and support positions within those you mention, etc., in total would overshadow those positions.  Good to know!  You always have great information - thanks!

How many do you think staff a large container ship?   Yes - you need deck, engineering, maintenance, etc.  but not likely to exceed 100 --- if that. 

 

A large cruise ship (4,500 or so pax) would likely have  to 2,000 +/- cooking, serving, cleaning, bar-tending, entertaining, fielding customer complaints, selling future cruses, etc.

[leaveitallbehind]

4 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

How many do you think staff a large container ship?   Yes - you need deck, engineering, maintenance, etc.  but not likely to exceed 100 --- if that. 

 

A large cruise ship (4,500 or so pax) would likely have  to 2,000 +/- cooking, serving, cleaning, bar-tending, entertaining, fielding customer complaints, selling future cruses, etc.

I think I indicated my mistaken assumptions and expressed my appreciation at gaining new insight.

Edited February 4, 2022 by leaveitallbehind

[cruisemom42]

12 hours ago, leaveitallbehind said:

To be clear with what this is showing, I think we need the context in which it is being presented.

 

I'm surprised at how quickly people forget things....

 

At the beginning of the COVID pandemic, while many ships were trying to wrap up their current cruise and find a place to dock and unload passengers at the behest of the authorities, Holland America's Zaandam was cruising the western coast of South America when passenger began falling ill with COVID-like symptoms.  Panicked South American countries refused permission for the ship to dock even as passenger deaths onboard ship were reported. 

 

HAL's Rotterdam (which has since been sold and a new Rotterdam launched) raced down the coast with the goal of bringing medical supplies to the Zaandam, which was overwhelmed.  A secondary goal became that of transferring passengers who were not ill aboard that ship. At first it seemed like a daring mission but ultimately the plan was problematic as now both ships faced difficulty finding a port where they could disembark the passengers.

 

The ships decided to sail for Florida but initially Panama did not even want to give them permission to sail through the canal. At last a deal was reached and the ships were allowed passage (albeit almost like criminals stealing through in the dark of night....)

 

Then Florida also seemed to close its doors against the beleaguered ships. Ron DeSantis (yes, him) did not want to allow them to "dump" the potentially ill passengers in "his" state and even went so far as to say most of the passengers were foreigners (!!).

 

Finally both ships were allowed to dock in Fort Lauderdale and on April 3rd passengers began disembarkation, many flying home on regular flights without testing as long as they were asymptomatic.

 

It also came out at the time that crew on the Rotterdam were not initially told what the real mission of their trip to rescue the Zaandam passengers was, and many of them were terrified once they realized....

 

At the end of the day a debacle, but I assume that this photo was taken to recognized the crew and staff of both ships for their efforts.

 

There were many documented accounts of these events -- but again, peoples' memories are short and their willingness to trust cruise lines to do the right thing ("if only the CDC would get out of the way") is a source of amazement.

 

Here's one account:  https://www.businessinsider.com/holland-america-zaandam-rotterdam-coronavirus-stricken-ships-2020-4

 

[MBP&O2/O]

“How many do you think staff a large container ship?   Yes - you need deck, engineering, maintenance, etc.  but not likely to exceed 100 --- if that. “

 

Depending on trading patterns we used to run with anything from 45 to 55 in total.

If we were on an intense trading pattern, ie in and out of port every day and sometimes twice a day, then we would sometimes carry an extra deck officer, and /or a couple of cadets. Similar criteria for the ER.

Deep sea, on the Deck side, we would have the Master, C/O, 2/O, and 3/O.
 

I believe the newer, more modern cargo vessels run with a total complement of 35ish or thereabouts, but I stand to be corrected🙂 

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

How many do you think staff a large container ship?   Yes - you need deck, engineering, maintenance, etc.  but not likely to exceed 100 --- if that. 

25-30.

[leaveitallbehind]

10 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I'm surprised at how quickly people forget things....

 

At the end of the day a debacle, but I assume that this photo was taken to recognized the crew and staff of both ships for their efforts.

 

There were many documented accounts of these events -- but again, peoples' memories are short....

 

Thank you for adding your thoughts as to the missing context.  I don't think its a matter of people forgetting as just not realizing that this was a picture that may relate to those events since no explanation was provided by the poster with the picture - just that it was a crew picture.

Edited February 4, 2022 by leaveitallbehind
correction

[donaldsc]

I notice that Magicmallard  is a first time poster who has posted 2 different questions that are different from the cruise related questions that we typically see on CC.  Those are his only 2 posts.  One wonders why.  I personally would not answer his questions until he comes back to tell us what he is going to do w the data.

 

DON

[chengkp75]

5 hours ago, donaldsc said:

I personally would not answer his questions until he comes back to tell us what he is going to do w the data.

There really won't be much "data", just some supposition, and some anecdotal experience.